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What page shoudld there be for important characters that DON'T reoccur?
Void, Black Doom, Mephiles, etc Titan50 (talk) 15:17, 14 September 2008 (UTC)
- They are put in the article about the only game in which they occur: Void goes in Sonic Shuffle, Doom in Shadow the Hedgehog (game), Mephiles in Sonic the Hedgehog (2006 video game) CIGraphix (talk) 15:23, 14 September 2008 (UTC)
==The article mentions Metal Sonic's debut being in Sonic CD, but I distinctly remember him from Sonic the Hedgehog 2 as the last boss before Dr Robotnik and again in Sonic & Knuckles as the final boss for Knuckle's storyline. 69.136.11.33 (talk) 18:00, 23 September 2008 (UTC)
- That was a different Sonic robot, known as either 'Mecha Sonic' or 'Silver Sonic'. A different Mecha Sonic has been featured in several games, it might not be in this article because each version is so different that it might be considered a different character in each game. CIGraphix (talk) 18:20, 23 September 2008 (UTC)
Sonic CD actually came out before Sonic tH2, at least in Japan. In America, it came out afterward. That's why there's all this confusion. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.65.34.106 (talk) 23:21, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
Cream not a major character?
Honestly, I don't see why she isn't. Of course, she hasn't been in the last few games, (The exception is Sonic Chronicles and Secret Rings) but she should still be important enough to have a page.
- Take it to the others. Go here, talk to them about it, not us. We ge no say in it anymore. They do. Skeletal SLJCOAAATR Soulsor 03:18, 18 October 2008 (UTC)
- Everyone gets a say in it, so don't make up things SLJ. Also, who is "we"? If you are referring to regular editors: they have a say in it, but it doesn't mean they control the article completely. RobJ1981 (talk) 06:20, 18 October 2008 (UTC)
- Calm down Rob. I simply meant that you guys at VG get more of a say as to what happens with articles. Skeletal SLJCOAAATR Soulsor 14:15, 18 October 2008 (UTC)
- This article is for recurring characters. Cream is a recurring character so she deserves a section here. Simple as that.Fairfieldfencer FFF 07:45, 18 October 2008 (UTC)
- Don't tell me to calm down, I'm perfectly calm. RobJ1981 (talk) 22:14, 19 October 2008 (UTC)
- Everyone gets a say in it, so don't make up things SLJ. Also, who is "we"? If you are referring to regular editors: they have a say in it, but it doesn't mean they control the article completely. RobJ1981 (talk) 06:20, 18 October 2008 (UTC)
Adding A Few More Characters?
Thanks to Chronicles, I was wondering, should we add Pachacamac? He does serve a minor role, and the games events role back on his doings. As well as adding Gizoids? Though, only Emerl has made multiple appearances (In the form of G-Mel in Advance 3) --Skeletal SLJCOAAATR Soulsor 03:51, 5 October 2008 (UTC)
Gemerl's / G-Mel's / G-Merl's only appearance was in Sonic Advance 3. It is NOT a rebuilt Emerl - it is rather an entirely new robot based on Emerl's design, Eggman's ultimate battle robot that could interface with his machines. It's basically an update of Eggman's Phi robots. 156.12.150.206 (talk) 16:47, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
- Bzzt! Incorrect. Advance 3 clearly stated that Eggman rebuilt, and reprogramed the remains of Emerl, so, technically, it's the same character, just a different memory, and personally, just like Shadow. Skeletal SLJCOAAATR Soulsor 21:46, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
remaining merges
I support the existing merges up until now, including Babylon Rouges. It's led to a large good article, rather than a lot of articles that fail our policies and guidelines. There are only a few remaining merge proposals outstanding. The main question we should as is if there is significant coverage of the following characters in reliable third-party sources for any of the following topics:
If the answer to that is no, then a merge might be appropriate, if not deletion. Another article that's on the fence is Chao (Sonic the Hedgehog), which was previously nominated for deletion. The discussion was closed with no consensus because people weren't sure if it could be improved. But so far, nothing has happened. Can people find appropriate sources for this one?
Let's try to settle these last few merges, one way or the other. After a discussion, we should work removing the tags. The great news after all these merges is that we have one article with a lot of verified information, rather than a bunch of articles with speculation and original research. I think this could even be awarded a good article status in the long run, and work towards B-status in the short term. Randomran (talk) 22:36, 7 November 2008 (UTC)
- I already know for a FACT, that very little can be found for E-Series. I fully support a merge there. As for Chaotix, I believe a good amount can be found, though, I'm not too sure if it'll still be good enough. Chao, I believe, could also be merged. The article is absolutley disgusting, and can easily be covered in this one article. Skeletal SLJCOAAATR Soulsor 22:49, 7 November 2008 (UTC)
- I've gone ahead and merged the E-Series robots. When removing the speculation, OR, etc. there was little left to warrant an article. « ₣M₣ » 23:04, 9 November 2008 (UTC)
Good call on the e-series. We still have to figure out what to do with Chaotix and Chao (Sonic the Hedgehog) though. These articles have been around for a while and nobody has turned up reliable third-party sources. I'm not trying to rush you, but at the same time, you have to conclude that some articles just can't meet our standards right now. What do you think? Randomran (talk) 00:46, 10 November 2008 (UTC)
- I've just added a third-party for the Chaotix.Fairfieldfencer FFF 09:29, 10 November 2008 (UTC)
- A comic book is a primary source. A third-party source would be a reliable secondary source, like a journal, textbook, news report, review, preview ... etc. Randomran (talk) 19:47, 10 November 2008 (UTC)
- Oh, I thought that since the article focused on the game versions, a reference from an appearance in another universe would count as third-party.Fairfieldfencer FFF 20:07, 10 November 2008 (UTC)
- People sometimes use "third-party" as shorthand for "reliable secondary source that's independent of the subject". A secondary source is something that analyzes a primary source. (e.g.: how a scholar analyzes a movie, or how a journalist analyzes a speech from the President.) And the source has to be reliable (not just a random fan). And it has to be independent (e.g.: not some kind of officially commissioned report or press release or advertisement). Read WP:SECONDARY, and WP:SOURCES if you need more clarification. Randomran (talk) 20:53, 10 November 2008 (UTC)
- I think the article of the Chaotix is too large to merge with the list of characters. It would make the article too lengthy. (talk) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.192.57.114 (talk) 15:43, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
- People sometimes use "third-party" as shorthand for "reliable secondary source that's independent of the subject". A secondary source is something that analyzes a primary source. (e.g.: how a scholar analyzes a movie, or how a journalist analyzes a speech from the President.) And the source has to be reliable (not just a random fan). And it has to be independent (e.g.: not some kind of officially commissioned report or press release or advertisement). Read WP:SECONDARY, and WP:SOURCES if you need more clarification. Randomran (talk) 20:53, 10 November 2008 (UTC)
- Oh, I thought that since the article focused on the game versions, a reference from an appearance in another universe would count as third-party.Fairfieldfencer FFF 20:07, 10 November 2008 (UTC)
- A comic book is a primary source. A third-party source would be a reliable secondary source, like a journal, textbook, news report, review, preview ... etc. Randomran (talk) 19:47, 10 November 2008 (UTC)
- WP:SS comes to mind, will the Chaotix article be too big to merge in the list? As for Chao, perhaps a series merge would be best. « ₣M₣ » 19:37, 10 November 2008 (UTC)
- Are you saying we should merge Chao to a target other than this page? Randomran (talk) 19:47, 10 November 2008 (UTC)
- No. I believe Chao should be merged here, while info about Chao Gardens, to the series. Chao have been recurring crwatures throughout the series, and have had a large part in some games, and one Chao (Cheese), has appeared in many games, and has had a bit of an impact on things. Chaotix will be difficult. I'm barely having time to even go online anymore if I had more time, I'd help. But, likely, a merge is needed. Out of curiosity, would it b good if we mentioned that Vector was actually a prototype character for Sonic 1, and Carmy was inspiried by a character in the Sonic manga? Outside info that Mighty has can help alot. But, I don't think it's enough to hold the article... Skeletal SLJCOAAATR Soulsor 23:18, 10 November 2008 (UTC)
- re: Chaotix, out of universe information would be really helpful. It would get you halfway to meriting a stand-alone article, for sure. The other half is if this information came from reliable third-party sources: some kind of review or preview that mentions the Chaotix. Really, you need a development and reception section that comes from reliable third-party sources. Randomran (talk) 23:49, 10 November 2008 (UTC)
- No. I believe Chao should be merged here, while info about Chao Gardens, to the series. Chao have been recurring crwatures throughout the series, and have had a large part in some games, and one Chao (Cheese), has appeared in many games, and has had a bit of an impact on things. Chaotix will be difficult. I'm barely having time to even go online anymore if I had more time, I'd help. But, likely, a merge is needed. Out of curiosity, would it b good if we mentioned that Vector was actually a prototype character for Sonic 1, and Carmy was inspiried by a character in the Sonic manga? Outside info that Mighty has can help alot. But, I don't think it's enough to hold the article... Skeletal SLJCOAAATR Soulsor 23:18, 10 November 2008 (UTC)
- Are you saying we should merge Chao to a target other than this page? Randomran (talk) 19:47, 10 November 2008 (UTC)
Metal Sonic Debut
Technically, if I'm not mistaken, Metal Sonic was also the mini boss you fight at the end of Sonic 2, right before the final robotnik confrontation in the Death Egg. This would make his debut not of Sonic CD, but Sonic 2. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.97.118.51 (talk) 07:20, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
- I think (and I can't believe I know this, shows how much I've been around this contentious article) that version was termed "Mecha Sonic". I'd thought it had its own section, actually, though I can't see it; might be in the history for someone to check. SynergyBlades (talk) 07:38, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
- Sonic 2 had Silver. CD had Metal. 3&K had Mecha. Skeletal SLJCOAAATR Soulsor 02:38, 25 November 2008 (UTC)
- In the american and european manual. It is known as Metal Sonic in Japan, atleast i have heard so. NeoDoubleGames bla bla bla (talk) 16:07, 16 May 2009 (UTC)
- Sonic 2 had Silver. CD had Metal. 3&K had Mecha. Skeletal SLJCOAAATR Soulsor 02:38, 25 November 2008 (UTC)
E-Series Edit
Zero from the game Sonic Adventure was not named E-100 Alpha. In the begining of Gamma's story, Eggman refers to Gamma as the second model in the E-Series. The first being E-101 Beta. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Chaos2000 (talk • contribs) 04:15, 8 December 2008 (UTC)
Why the removal?
A few months ago, I considered Wikipedia my "go to" place for reading up on information about the characters of the Sonic the Hedgehog games. Now? It's a joke. So much information was just ripped apart, pages for certain characters destroyed (instead they get a paragraph or two on this "recurring characters" page), and for what? What purpose is there to get RID of information? Isn't this supposed to be a website where we, oh I don't know, come to be informed? It wasn't as if any of the facts were wrong, on the contrary, the facts were right on. And for that matter, why have the comic book characters' pages not been torn apart like this? There's just as much information on them as there are the game characters, so why aren't they suffering like the characters in the games have?
Wikipedia, for whatever reason, has lost any value it once had with me and everyone I know. It's not just on these articles, but this was just awful. It's one thing to (pointlessly, I might add, but that's another argument) take down images, it's another to take down pages and pages worth of information because someone's deemed it unimportant.
Anyway, so this just doesn't seem like "forum post" or whatever the losers in charge think, I think, if possible, the old pages (such as Blaze's and Silver's, to name a few) be brought back to the way they were before they got trashed. ----Thousandsevens (talk) 01:04, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
- Well, if this helps, you can still find info about their roles in each game in that games specific article. (EX: Amy's role in SA) For a certain character, place, etc. to warrant an article, their must be a sufficent amount of "relevant, outside information". Meaning, what inspired their creation, who specifically came up with them, etc. If you'd like to learn more about the situation, check out the previous archive of this talk, VG project, and several others. Skeletal SLJCOAAATR Soulsor 01:42, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
- The articles lacked both reliable, third-party sources (mostly because there isn't much commentary by reliable sites), and failed to assert their notability, per Wikipedia's guidelines on fictional characters. Because Wikipedia is supposed to an encyclopedia and provide a general overview for a general audience, detailed fan information is not appropriate. That is what Wikia was set up for, because its guidelines are more relaxed in that respect. So why not check out the Sonic Wikia at http://sonic.wikia.com, where you can read about how Blaze began to bond with Cream the rabbit, coming to think of her as her little sister after initially being a little hostile, or the heated debate amongst fans regarding Silver's higher-pitched voice actor which is regarded canon, even though some fans would prefer a deeper voice. SynergyBlades (talk) 01:43, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
- What is the definition of "fan information" exactly? Because it wasn't like any of the information was false, it had all been said or shown in the various games. Just because they didn't quote every line and every event in the game doesn't mean they made it up or anything. Summaries of what happened in the game, their role in it (no, that's not really here anymore except for saying they were in it), that kind of thing; it's all gone. Changing the articles did NO ONE any good. --Thousandsevens (talk) 02:10, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
- Fan information is the extreme details that only fans are interested in, Wikipedia is about general overview rather than turning everyone into scholars on each subject - such overload would overwhelm the reader. And yes the information wasn't false, but if you read Wikipedia's rule that everything must be verified you would understand that Wikipedia is not about truth, it is about what can be verified with reliable 3rd party sources (reliable 3rd party sources meaning sources that are not 1st party - like Sega is a 1st party source for all things Sonic; sources that are reliable - writings by independent websites with editorial boards - like GameSpot, but not fansites or forums). It is okay to use 1st party sources to a certain extent in a topic (as long as it doesn't start violating What Wikipedia Is Not), but only 3rd party sources can assert notablity of that topic. CIGraphix (talk) 02:47, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
- Just to echo what people are saying here, a lot of those articles were unverified, or at best original research based on someone playing the game and then compiling it into a single article. So merging everything here was the best middle ground, between deleting the information outright, and keeping articles that really went into what Wikipedia is not. Randomran (talk) 03:20, 29 December 2008 (UTC)
Blaze's own page
Blaze has appeared as a focal character in the Sonic Rush games, and is appearing more and more. Soon, she will be included in Sonic and the Black Knight as a Knight of the Round Table. I think this will be enough to secure her importance as a Sonic character, moreso than even Amy Rose. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.194.123.128 (talk) 00:56, 31 December 2008 (UTC)
- Well then, we'll just have to wait and see won't we? Kuro ♪
- lol. You expect Blaze, a character we hardly know (Relevant-outside-info-wise) to have a better article than Amy (Who, has a decent amount of relevant-outside-info)? lol Skeletal SLJCOAAATR Soulsor 06:48, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
- Blaze appeared first 2005 and Amy appeared first 1993 plus Amy have a fairly large role while Blaze have an minor role in the most games except Sonic Rush and its sequel. And Blaze isn't included in Chronicles while Amy is the second character in SC.--NeoDoubleGames (talk) 13:42, 15 February 2009 (UTC)
- Except you forget that Blaze has had a significant role in ALL games she appeared in, unlike Amy who serves as a foil or damsel in distress. I believe Blaze is hands-down worthy of taking her place alongside Shadow with her own page. --74.194.33.161 (talk) 10:39, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
- Blaze appeared first 2005 and Amy appeared first 1993 plus Amy have a fairly large role while Blaze have an minor role in the most games except Sonic Rush and its sequel. And Blaze isn't included in Chronicles while Amy is the second character in SC.--NeoDoubleGames (talk) 13:42, 15 February 2009 (UTC)
- lol. You expect Blaze, a character we hardly know (Relevant-outside-info-wise) to have a better article than Amy (Who, has a decent amount of relevant-outside-info)? lol Skeletal SLJCOAAATR Soulsor 06:48, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
Tails Doll redirecting here but no info about Tails Dolls on here
... How strange. --Youtuber Mangoman34:-D (talk) 22:19, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
- It is because Tails Doll only appeared in Sonic R, so he is not really a recurring or relevant character. Evilgidgit (talk) 10:19, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
Spooky, isn't it? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.65.34.106 (talk) 23:18, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
E-Series
The section on the E-Series robots, a group of minor characters, has been spun off into its own article. I'm not entirely sure why. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire - past ops) 21:44, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
- Why does it even need to be merged? There's enough information at the recurring characters article, and this is just superfluous in-universe information. Haipa Doragon (talk • contributions) 23:23, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
- Well, because it should be redirected, and while we're at it any good from it could be imported over here. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire - past ops) 23:48, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
- Well I'm the one who made that page, because 1. The Chaotix group have their own page aswell, 2. Though most of them are minor characters, the group itself is recurring, and 3. It's only a part of the series. No big deal right? User:Looney Guy —Preceding undated comment added 17:04, 30 May 2009 (UTC).
- The problem is that the E-100 Series article lacks the necessary secondary sourcing to establish notability. The Chaotix are completely irrelevant, nor are the facts that they're recurring or part of a series going to help that article. The fundamental point is, unless the article can gain reliable, independent sources, i.e. not those from things such as the developers, it is unsuitable for inclusion on Wikipedia. Haipa Doragon (talk • contributions) 17:27, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
- Well, what kind of secondary sources are there? User:Looney Guy —Preceding undated comment added 18:25, 1 June 2009 (UTC).
- For the E-Series? None of the top of my head, which is why the article should be merged into here. You might be able to get one, or two decent bits of reliable secondary sources off something like IGN, but not enough to warrant an article. SLJCOAAATR 4 6 8 15 16 23 42 108 305 316 22:07, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
- Well, what kind of secondary sources are there? User:Looney Guy —Preceding undated comment added 18:25, 1 June 2009 (UTC).
- The problem is that the E-100 Series article lacks the necessary secondary sourcing to establish notability. The Chaotix are completely irrelevant, nor are the facts that they're recurring or part of a series going to help that article. The fundamental point is, unless the article can gain reliable, independent sources, i.e. not those from things such as the developers, it is unsuitable for inclusion on Wikipedia. Haipa Doragon (talk • contributions) 17:27, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
- Well I'm the one who made that page, because 1. The Chaotix group have their own page aswell, 2. Though most of them are minor characters, the group itself is recurring, and 3. It's only a part of the series. No big deal right? User:Looney Guy —Preceding undated comment added 17:04, 30 May 2009 (UTC).
- Well, because it should be redirected, and while we're at it any good from it could be imported over here. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire - past ops) 23:48, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
Not even born yet.
Personally, I don't think Silver should have an age. He was born in the future, theirfore, he is going to be born. So, right now, he dosen't have an age. Saprissy (talk) 17:08, 26 October 2009 (UTC)
- Blaze has an age and isn't she from the future? There's nothing wrong with it. Mokoniki | talk 17:27, 26 October 2009 (UTC)
Light Gaia
I put an Artical about Light Gaia (AKA: Chip) but it was deleted.Dosen't he play a major roll at the end of Sonic Unleash? He is also a playable character (as Gaia Colossus). —Preceding unsigned comment added by Saprissy (talk • contribs) 17:20, 26 October 2009 (UTC)
- A character having a major role in a game doesn't justify it being able to have an article. As much as I would love for Chip to have an article, he will probably never get an article, as he is a one-time only character, and will probably never be seen again. Which means that all of what we know about him, is on Sonic Unleashed, which is very little information, which wouldn't be enough to let him have his own article. It would also need reliable sources. Mokoniki | talk 17:40, 26 October 2009 (UTC)
True but dose that mean that Migty the Armedillo should be kicked from the artical. I hardly ever heard of him. Saprissy (talk) 17:14, 27 October 2009 (UTC)
- True, I hardly hear about Mighty as well, but there are some reliable sources provided for the information given for him. Mokoniki | talk 17:32, 27 October 2009 (UTC)
E-123 Gamma
This article lists E-123 Gamma's first appearance as Sonic Heroes. However, I distinctly remember him being a playable character in Sonic Adventure, which came five years earlier. Tezero (talk) 15:09, 6 November 2009 (UTC)
- You're mixing up two different characters: E-102 Gamma (first game Sonic Adventure) and E-123 Omega (first game Sonic Heroes) CIGraphix (talk) 16:01, 6 November 2009 (UTC)
- You're right; I often get them confused. Thanks. Tezero (talk) 22:04, 12 November 2009 (UTC)
Proposed page move to List of Sonic the Hedgehog characters
The current name is awkward, especially with "games" in parentheses, and the name I propose corresponds to other series-wide character lists such as that of The Legend of Zelda. Tezero (talk) 22:03, 12 November 2009 (UTC)
- It sounds good and better than the current title.Tintor2 (talk) 21:32, 14 November 2009 (UTC)
- I'm fine with that. Mokoniki | talk 23:20, 14 November 2009 (UTC)
- I don't think thats a good idea, the list should not be fully comprehensive list of all characters from all media - a page like that would be huge, image adding all of List of characters in Sonic the Hedgehog (comic book) to this list - and the list must be recurring characters only because others lack notability to be on anything other than the individual game's page in which they appeared. Check out the archives of this page for more. CIGraphix (talk) 23:24, 14 November 2009 (UTC)
- I'm fine with that. Mokoniki | talk 23:20, 14 November 2009 (UTC)
- Ah, I see, well, could we add games onto the end of it or does what you say still apply? Mokoniki | talk 00:41, 15 November 2009 (UTC)
- Why would "recurring" be necessary? The individual characters won't still be added since the article should cover the recurring characters anyway.Tintor2 (talk) 14:51, 15 November 2009 (UTC)
- I'm not really attached to "recurring" being in the page title, I'm just concerned that some editors unfamiliar with WP:N would try to use the lack of it as an arguement to make the list into an exhaustively comprehensive one. CIGraphix (talk) 16:58, 15 November 2009 (UTC)
- Why would "recurring" be necessary? The individual characters won't still be added since the article should cover the recurring characters anyway.Tintor2 (talk) 14:51, 15 November 2009 (UTC)
- I agree with that. Possibly, "recurring" could be used in the lead to clarify.Tintor2 (talk) 22:24, 16 November 2009 (UTC)
- How about this title: Characters in the Sonic the Hedgehog video games, or Recurring characters in the Sonic the Hedgehog video games if deemed necessary. Tezero (talk) 19:22, 17 January 2010 (UTC)
- I agree with that. Possibly, "recurring" could be used in the lead to clarify.Tintor2 (talk) 22:24, 16 November 2009 (UTC)
What Happened to Amy's Page?
Was it deleted or something? Isn't Amy one of the main characters of the games? She's been in most of the games, and is even older than Knuckles. Why shouldn't she keep her own page? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Lamb84 (talk • contribs) 03:37, 25 November 2009 (UTC)