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What is the beginning date of the Median Empire?
So why has the beginning date of the Median Empire keep changing from 728 BCE to 615 BCE every other hour? I recently got into Iranian history, and I would like to know the accurate timeline of when the Medes became an empire. Library of Babylon (talk) 10:17, 10 July 2015 (UTC)
- Ok. Are you the IP I just reverted? We had an editor with a very poor command on English edit-warring on this and other articles also, one of the reasons.
- First, academic sources differ as to how they describe the Median state, many using Kingdom, possibly more using Empire. So that's one problem. Secondly, there's an attempt to date it from Deioces, who likely never existed, or Kashtariti (I see the source for that is 19th century). Although I wouldn't use the Iranian Chamber of Commerce as a source, it's interesting to see that they don't call him a king.[1] As for Kashtariti, I find sources calling him a king, and others calling him a chieftain or in this source a city lord.[2].
- The source I added says:
- "During the early stages of their history the Medes were probably little more than a loose confederation of tribes, but by the seventh century BCE they are thought to have controlled an extensive area around their main city of Ecbatana (modern Hamadan), while the subject Persians were settled in Fars. By 612 BCE the Medes, under their king Cyaxares, were strong enough to overthrow, in alliance with the Babylonians, the ailing Assyrian state. In spite of all this, modern scholarship has tended to be sceptical about the existence of a united Median “kingdom” or “state”, at least for most of the 7th century BCE. Thus, David Stronach has recently written that “there arc, quite simply, no sound grounds for postulating the existence of a vigorous, separate and united Median kingdom at any date substantially before 615 BC”.41" Other sources differ, but I didn't want to use George Rawlinson, who is too antiquated, so I removed it.
Doug Weller (talk) 11:19, 10 July 2015 (UTC)
- No I didn't even change anything. I just saw that the date kept changing when I was looking for information on the Median Empire on Wikipedia. It was just getting annoying I couldn't understand what the right date was. So I created this account for a moments use to see what was going on. Anyways, thanks for the explaination and information on the Median Empire. It was extemely helpful. Library of Babylon (talk) 12:23, 10 July 2015 (UTC)
- Today a new account told me that the Cambridge History of Iran says it started in 678. I'll need a quote because it actuall says says "The rise of the Median kingdom in c. 673-672 seems to be beyond all doubt: it is already mentioned, side by side with Urartu, HubuSkia and the Land of the Mannaeans in a letter from the royal archives (No. 434) which can be dated from between the years 672 and 669, and later in an enumeration of independent and dependent kingdoms, as well as of Assyrian and Babylonian provinces dating from between the years 669 and 652. Here Media is named at the end of the list, among the independent states, i.e. after Ashkelon, Edom, Moab, Ammon and Ethiopia, and before the Land of the Mannaeans and the Chaldaean Sea-land none of which were at the time dependent on Assyria. The Assyrians, if one leaves out of account a raid which in 660-659 may have affected the outskirts of the Median kingdom, no longer invaded Media, which explains the temporary silence of cuneiform inscriptions on the history of that country. In the absence, too, of authentic Median sources we have to seek information from Greek authors. Of their writings on the history of Media those of Herodotus have been preserved in full, and those of Ctesias only in excerpts and digests which often make his unreliable account seem even fantastic. The names of the Median kings given by Ctesias are indeed Median, but they must belong to contemporaries he knew from his stay at the Persian court at the end of the 5 th century b.c., for they are certainly not the names of rulers of the Median kingdom. In general it is often a hopeless task to try to extract something rational from his narrative. His chronology, as was already proved by Volney at the beginning of the 19th century, is nothing but the inverted and doubled chronological system of Herodotus. Ctesias himself admits that his aim was to refute Herodotus. Herodotus* information, by contrast, is reliable within the limits of what this conscientious author succeeded in rescuing from oblivion, but one must bear in mind that he wrote his history of Asia only from oral tradition two or three hundred years after the events."
- And on page 115 "Therefore, between 672 and the beginning of the last Assyro-Median war, that is, not later than 615, the tiny “kingdoms” and independent strongholds which previously had determined the forms of polity on Median territory, were reduced and absorbed. " So in 678 there were tiny kingdoms and independent strongholds. Doug Weller (talk) 17:33, 9 September 2015 (UTC)
The Map of the Median Empire
The map that is used in the information panel on the top right looks really bad. Is there a way to create a territorial map that is commonly used on almost every country article? This is the one in question Leno405 (talk) 15:03, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
Date of the start of the monarchy
The date is unsourced and doesn't make sense. The infobox says 678 with either Deioces or Kashtariti as its first king. The article on Deioces gives his reign as 727-675 based on the Encyclopedia Iranica. This article has 700–647 BC. We have Kashtariti described as a chieftain but an inscription dated 678 calling him a king. Doug Weller talk 17:31, 2 August 2017 (UTC)
- To User:Doug Weller The entire name of the article isn't consistent with the date. If the first date is the beginning of the Median kingdom when it began its expansion, then the title of the article should not be Median or Medes but Median kingdom (or empire). This article is written weirdly where it tries to talk about both the people (Medes) and the state. But those are two different things and so it leads to problems. For example this article doesn't talk much about the Medes after the conquest by Cyrus. This would be expected in an article about a Median kingdom but not when it comes to an article about the Medes. If this article is about the Median kingdom and its dynasty, than there is not really a solid date. Iranica mentions different possible dates as presented by various scholars. CaliphoShah (talk) 03:22, 17 August 2017 (UTC)
The Medians of today.
It is no doubt that the north Iraqi Kurds and Yazidis have links to the ancient Medians we can see that in blood and names as well as traditions. Mazdasnism was the first religion of the Medians, after the appear of Zoroaster and his suggested reforms he was exiled and fled to the Persians (Like the religious Yazidi man says "He was one of us but he separated"). After the Persians accepted his ideas it started to spread to Media by the support of Medians themselves until it was known as Zoroastrianism-Mazdasnism but most do not mention the Mazdasnism. Mazdasnism means: "Worshipper of the right God" from "Ahoramazdasni", "Maz" means "The right/powerful" and "dasni" means "Worshipper". After the Arabic islamic conquest they were not seen as God worshippers and they were called "Dasni" without God. The Dasnis were not acceptable about their name then it was reformed to "Ezidi" that also means "Worshipper of God" and were called "Yazidi" by the Arabs. It was until the reforms of Adi-Ibn-Musafir that added moder semitic believes to Yazidism. Today Yazidism contains elements of the ancient Mazdasni and the elements added by Zoroaster together under one God and they accept to be called Mazdasni as well. Sabyan (talk) 12:16, 11 February 2020 (UTC)
Dated
Unfortunately, the English page dedicated to the Medians feels currently (January 16, 2020) rather dated. Since the 2000's a new consensus among specialists and scholars of Achaemenid history has started to emerge that the idea of a “Median period” in the Middle East is a purely Greek interpretation of world history not corroborated by evidence. The Persian Achaemenid Empire was the successor of the older Elamite kingdoms, not of a fictitious Median kingdom, on which see notably the paper of M. Liverani, “The Rise and Fall of Media”, in Continuity of Empire(?), Assyria, Media and Persia: pp. 1-12.
For details on the current researches on the Achaemenids, one can consult the French wikipage on the Medians as a first point of orientation, or the French site Achemenet.
The following books can be recommended for further study:
- the conference proceedings, Continuity of Empire(?), Assyria, Media and Persia (edited by Giovanni B. Lanfranchi, Michael Roaf and Robert Rollinger). Padova 2003.
- Henkelman, W.F.M. 2006, The Other Gods Who Are. Studies in Elamite-Iranian Acculturation Based on the Persepolis Fortification Tablets, Leiden.
- the conference proceedings, Herodot und das Persische Weltreich / Herodotus and the Persian Empire (eds. Rollinger, Robert / Truschnegg, Brigitte / Bichler, Reinhold). Wiesbaden 2003. Published by Harrassowitz Verlag.
— Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A01:CB04:A87:6000:1000:B273:FC39:D814 (talk) 23:17, 16 January 2020 (UTC)
Rename
Rename this article to Empire Median. NerdZizc (talk) 02:22, 15 July 2020 (UTC)
Gernot Windfuhr
Hello Guys, I wonder why you don't expose this proffessor's all views about Medes. In his very same book he also said that The majority of those who now speak Kurdish most likely were formerly speakers of Median dialects.” Gernot Windfuhr (1938- ). A retired professor from the University of Michigan, Iranian. Source: “Isoglosses: A Sketch on Persians and Parthians, Kurds and Medes”, Monumentum H.S. Nyberg II (Acta Iranica-5), Leiden: 457–471.
You better respect his whole views. Key Mîrza (talk) 12:43, 26 August 2020 (UTC)
I am talking to you, you admins. Anybody there? Key Mîrza (talk) 13:05, 28 August 2020 (UTC)
Garnik Asatrian
Do you actually need this sentence that contrasts real life? Let me explain it.
"Garnik Asatrian stated that ... In general, the relationship between Kurdish and Median is not closer than the affinities between the latter and other North Western dialects – Baluchi, Talishi, South Caspian, Zaza, Gurani, etc."
You guys already have sections/titles under "Zaza" and "Gurani" in Wikipedia. And mentioned that they are of Kurdish origin. So, is it logical to separate Kurdish tribes from each other? Do it sense to list Kurdish tribes against Kurds?
Plus, everybody knows that he is a political guy working for the benefit of Persians and Armenians. Key Mîrza (talk) 13:03, 26 August 2020 (UTC)
Plus, there are a lot of historians like Akhund Salih, Meer Gul Khan Naseer and Longworth Dames emphasized on the Kurd origin of Baloch and according to them Kurd and Baloch are from a same origin but due to some historic battles, Baloch had to migrate from Kurdish lands. Key Mîrza (talk) 15:50, 28 August 2020 (UTC) )
- @Key Mirza: Do you have any evidence to suggest that Asatrian's claims are politically motivated? — Mr. Guye (talk) (contribs) 03:09, 4 September 2020 (UTC)
You better go and ask him the real reason. He was born in Iran into an Armenian family. Then later moved to Armenia. I don't know if you read any of his papers. All his claims on Kurds stand againt rest linguists/historians and stand contra real life that I pointed above. So if he is right then the rest linguists and historians must be wrong right? He like it or not, majority Zaza and Goran people describe themselves as Kurdish origin; even Baloch intellectuals claim that they have strong connection with Kurds historically, linguistically and DNA researches done on this issue point on the same result. Key Mîrza (talk) 13:28, 4 September 2020 (UTC)
I don't know if you know the Êzidî/Yezidi Kurds. It is a religion and they pray in Kurmanji Kurdish. Here read an article on Êzidîs and Garnik Asatrian's view on the same topic: https://groong.org/orig/ok-19980701.html Key Mîrza (talk) 14:01, 4 September 2020 (UTC)
My resources were deleted
Why was my information and resources deleted even though I shared resources? Resource sharing (talk) 12:13, 14 September 2020 (UTC)
- Hello, Resource sharing. Which resources? It does not appear that you have edited the article under this username? Larry Hockett (Talk) 15:26, 16 September 2020 (UTC)
- @Larry Hockett: From linguistic forensic evidence, I guess they must be the edit-warring and aspersion-casting IP[3]. –Austronesier (talk) 14:37, 17 September 2020 (UTC)
I have many sources about Medes.
I want to open this up for discussion. Are there any criticisms of my sources? Are there any negative aspects of my resources? I want to learn these.Because I have resources from Cambridge university and many professors. Resource sharing (talk) 17:06, 19 September 2020 (UTC)
- Which sources are you talking about? Are you talking about these edits? The suitability of sources is only one aspect of an edit; other relevant policies include WP:SYNTH and WP:WEIGHT. Also note that a link to an Amazon sales link is not appropriate. OhNoitsJamie Talk 19:22, 19 September 2020 (UTC)
- Please back off judgmental comments. And do not make irrelevant comments, This discussion page is not a discussion page for you to say what you think about me. Please delete your comments. You should not comment right now, you should to comment after I share the source.. Also, this discussion page has been opened for those who are objective, I know how you think about it: [4] Resource sharing (talk) 17:36, 21 September 2020 (UTC)
The book has all kinds of features: ISBN: 081563093X 9780815630937 OCLC Number: 1025720057 Resource sharing (talk) 17:59, 21 September 2020 (UTC)
Kurds and Medes
Let's criticize some nonsense sentences. You moderators wrote, "Russian historian and linguist Vladimir Minorsky suggested that the Medes, who widely inhabited the land where currently the Kurds form a majority, might have been forefathers of the modern Kurds." One who looks this sentence will think that this is the only unique claim, there aren't any more claims. Don't take me wrong, Are you experts in history, or history professors?
And you didn't stop, you wrote more "This view was accepted by many Kurdish nationalists in the twentieth century." Are you aware of all the Kurdish children in Kurdistan, Iraq, each day singing their national anthem Ey Reqîb before they enter their schools? Just read its translation, if you aren't aware. As per your theory, each Kurd in Kurdistan, Iraq is a nationalist. Does that make a sense?
Okay then, let me put down some those Kurdish nationalists names that some of them are also genuine history professors:
1- “Postea vero Sarraceni amiserunt dominium Egipti et Medi, qui Cordins vulgariter dicembantur; regni Egipti dominium occupaverunt.” “i.e. Afterwards Arabs lost the domination of Egypt and Medes who were called Kurds controlled Egypt.” Armenian historian Hayton of Corycus (also Hethum, Het'um, and variants) (c. 1240 – c. 1310/1320). His book “La Flor des Estoires d’Orient” Chapter 52.
“The same historian seems to imply in several passages that Media was the proper home of the Kurds.” His collected work “Becueil des Hislorieas des Croisades, Documents Arméniens” vol. ii, pp. 225, 343–4. (ibid., pp. 127, 267).
2- "There is no doubt that the term Mar (Medians) refers to the Kurds" Russian Orientalist best known for his contributions to the study of Kurdish and Persian history, geography, literature, and culture, Vladimir Fedorovich Minorsky (1877–1966). His book “L’origine des Kurdes”, Travaux du XX-ene Congres des Orientalistes, Bruxelles 1938, pp. 143-52.)
3- “Kurds and Baloch/Baluch descend from Mede People.” Baloch/Baluch historian Salih, Akhund (1659 A.D.) His book “Kurd gāl nāmak” ( Koord-gal-namak ). He also names there the Medes tribe names and their connection in detail. ( کورد گال نامك ؛ تصنيف ، اخوند صالح )
4- ”Medes lived and expanded in the western part of Zagros mountain. This region is modern Kurdistan and Luristan.” Israel Smith Clare (1847-1924) His book “Ancient History”.
5- "The Medes were the ancestors of Xenophon's Carduchi and the modern Kurds.” Mack Chahin, A former lecturer on the Ancient History of the Near East at the University of Bristol. His book “Before The Greeks” Page: 109. The Butterworth Press, Cambridge.
6- “The empire of the Medes, one of the reputed ancestors of the Kurdish people, was the only great national state that may be said to have been established by the Kurds.” History professor, Wadie Elias Jwaideh (1916 - 2001). His book “The Kurdish National Movement: Its Origins and Development”. Page: XV. Syracuse University Press. First edition, 2006.
7- “Great mass of the Kurds are descended from the Medes though some are the successors of Mantieni, Kadusii, and Kassaei or Saqae.” Prussian historian and geographer, Konrad Mannert 1756-1834.
8- “Kurds along with other Aryan immigrants were able to establish their own empire – the Median Empire –which rules vast areas of the Middle East Between 612 and 519 BC. Since then the Kurds and Kurdistan remained relatively independent ...” Associate Professor at the School of Information Science and Policy of the State University of New York at Albany. Lokman I. Meho. Source “Kurdish Culture and Society: An Annotated Bibliography” (Page: 11) Lokman I. Meho and Kelly L. Maglaughlin.
9- "Language like the language of the Medes, Kurdish is of the Iranian branch of the Indo-European family of languages..." William Lester Eagleton Jr. (1926 – 2011). The United States Foreign Service Officer and diplomat. His book “The Kurdish Republic of 1946.” Oxford: Oxford University Press, 1963.
10- The majority of those who now speak Kurdish most likely were formerly speakers of Median dialects.” Gernot Windfuhr (1938- ). A retired professor from the University of Michigan. Source: “Isoglosses: A Sketch on Persians and Parthians, Kurds and Medes”, Monumentum H.S. Nyberg II (Acta Iranica-5), Leiden: 457–471.
11- "The Kurds are physically perhaps the finest specimens of the human race in the Middle East, and they resemble Afghans in character and to some extent in physiognomy. They are the direct descendants of the Medes." Sir Arnold Talbot Wilson (1884–1940). British Deputy and acting Civil Commissioner in Baghdad from 1915-24. His book "Mesopotamia, 1917-1920: A Clash of Loyalties; a Personal and Historical Record" Page: 127.
12- "The true Medes (Mada) of the Assyrian inscription were the Kurdish tribes who lived eastward of Assyria and whose territory extended as far as the Caspian Sea. They were for the most part Indo-European in language and Aryan in descent, and lived like the Greeks, in small states, each of which obeyed a ‘city lord’ of its own.” Archibald Henry Sayce (1845 – 1933). British Assyriologist and linguist, who held a chair as Professor of Assyriology at the University of Oxford. Source: The Historians’ History Of The World. Chapter II. The Median or Scythian Empire. Page: 584. by Henry Smith Williams.
13- "Probably the wild Kurd or Lur of the present day more nearly corresponds in physique to the ancient Mede than do the softer inhabitants of the great plateau.” George Rawlinson (1812 – 1902). British scholar, historian, and Christian theologian. Source: "The Seven Great Monarchies" Chapter III. Character, Manners And Customs, Arts, Etc., Of The People. By George Rawlinson.
You didn't stop. You wrote also "Contemporary linguistic evidence has challenged the previously suggested view that the Kurds are descendants of the Medes.[66][67]"
You didn't even explain it. You didn't give an example. Don't you need to put some more explanation? And, you put two reference links that both are Turkish origin and one of them even doesn't work. Are you aware that Turkish scholars in past claimed that Kurds were one of a Turkish tribe? They said the term "Kurd" cames from the word "Kart, Kurt" which a step sound comes out on the snow. It was published by governmental institutions in the 1960s. Do you know that Turks officially denying Kurdish history and ruin it? Here a reminder: ( https://www.milliyet.com.tr/yazarlar/can-dundar/kart-kurt-alt-ust-oldu-1083712 )
Your next sentence "Gernot Windfuhr, professor of Iranian Studies, identified the Kurdish languages as Parthian, albeit with a Median substratum.[68]". Why you just made a selection of his work? You took some of his views and left some. Is it fair? Look above reference number ten.
I am sure you have a conscience and you will stick with truths. As much as you listen to "van Bruinessen" and "Garnik Asatrian" you will also listen to the above 13 Kurdish nationalists(!) too. Key Mîrza (talk) 14:25, 30 September 2020 (UTC)
- @Key Mirza: I'm an accredited Historian, and I can safely say that most of your sources here are very unreliable. A national anthem isn't a reliable source, and most of the other sources that you've posted are very old and outdated. Armanqur (talk) 22:57, 30 September 2020 (UTC)
- Uh, I rather not take part in this. However, Key Mirza you might wanna read WP:RS, WP:FRINGE and WP:AGE MATTERS. --HistoryofIran (talk) 23:05, 30 September 2020 (UTC)
@Armanqur my sources are enough for history respecting people and to me. By the way are you a history proffesor? You better go and teach Associate Professor Lokman I. Meho that still living today. And I am really interested in your history papers. Can you tell me how I can reach them? Key Mîrza (talk) 11:15, 1 October 2020 (UTC)
@HistoryofIran personally I don't discuss "history" with Persians and Turks. Key Mîrza (talk) 11:18, 1 October 2020 (UTC)
- @Key Mirza: Like I said before, your sources are unreliable and won't be used. Anyways, as for your later comments about whom you discuss history with, I don't discuss history with bigots. Armanqur (talk) 19:51, 1 October 2020 (UTC)
- ironic that someone who opened their user account 2 days ago and only made Vandal changes wherever the name "Kurd" appears is ironic — Preceding unsigned comment added by Resource sharing (talk • contribs) 20:03, 1 October 2020 (UTC)
- I changed what I thought was appropriate to change, which was only in three places. If you think that Key Mirza is correct and that his sources are all valid then please say so. Armanqur (talk) 20:10, 1 October 2020 (UTC)
- Don't worry I know you're a waste of time cause you're just making Vandal changes. So I won't waste time with you, don't worry, apparently your newly opened Wikipedia user will be closed by administrators for Vandalism. Resource sharing (talk) 20:15, 1 October 2020 (UTC)
- I changed what I thought was appropriate to change, which was only in three places. If you think that Key Mirza is correct and that his sources are all valid then please say so. Armanqur (talk) 20:10, 1 October 2020 (UTC)
@Armanqur , all my sources are correct and reliable plus, available on the current websites. Just make a small search on the Google. Key Mîrza (talk) 20:19, 1 October 2020 (UTC)
- @Key Mirza: I'd like to see what Resource sharing has to say about your sources? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Armanqur (talk • contribs) 20:24, 1 October 2020 (UTC)
The subject of Hethum already existed.
Hello, first of all there was an error, let me briefly state this error: This user has made quite the wrong edits before, Armanqur (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) Although this user was warned many times by me and the maid and the admins, he acted many times in vandal behavior, I ask him to be blocked. Like this:[5],He was warned but changed it again: [6], [7], And this is another Vandal change:[8] Before this user made this change: [9] And the admins have deleted resources without realizing it and the resources added by the vandalizing user have been added. Except for one administrator[10], all administrators deleted previously added resource. It is as if it is wrong to portray all the sources that say Medes are Kurdish as wrong and to put other sources first. Resource sharing (talk) 19:56, 1 October 2020 (UTC)
- Resource sharing|talk]]): How could I have been warned many times when I just created my account for the first time two days ago and received no messages about the issue that you're talking about? The passage I deleted was very poorly written and structured, and so it should have been removed. If you'd like to put it back then at least make sure its structure is parallel with all of the other writing on the page and subsection. Thank you. Armanqur (talk) 20:05, 1 October 2020 (UTC)
- All the sources you gave before were written in Turkish, it seems that you are a Turk. all the changes you have made are pages with the word Kurdish. It seemed funny to me that you said that and defended yourself, none of the resources you gave before are valid. It's funny that you don't know any sources given before and put forward your own biased Turkish sources and defend yourself. There is a suprism for you !, There is a very nice site for you to do these things more easily: [www.tr.wikipedia.org] This place is for you. Resource sharing (talk) 20:11, 1 October 2020 (UTC)
- Suprism? No, I'm not Turkish, but my race and ethnicity shouldn't matter at all. Most of the sources that I posted earlier were academic and peer reviewed, and written in english; as for whether the writers themselves were all Turkish or not, I don't know and I don't care. By the way, I haven't seen you criticizze Key Mirza for his sources? I hope you're not bias or anything like that? Thank you Armanqur (talk) 20:16, 1 October 2020 (UTC)
- Don't worry, Vandal users don't stay long on Wikipedia. You talk too much. There is no problem with any change made by Key mîrza. Resource sharing (talk) 20:29, 1 October 2020 (UTC)
- Suprism? No, I'm not Turkish, but my race and ethnicity shouldn't matter at all. Most of the sources that I posted earlier were academic and peer reviewed, and written in english; as for whether the writers themselves were all Turkish or not, I don't know and I don't care. By the way, I haven't seen you criticizze Key Mirza for his sources? I hope you're not bias or anything like that? Thank you Armanqur (talk) 20:16, 1 October 2020 (UTC)
- So you're fine with using a national anthem as academic evidence? Armanqur (talk) 20:33, 1 October 2020 (UTC)
- Yes, the sources of the mirza are more logical than the biased and written by Turkish newspaper writers you shared. Sharing the authors who write that the Sumerians are Turkish as a source reveals your intention. reason for adding the national anthem is to indicate that the Medes are Kurdish, a view that has existed from the past.If you only worry about 1 of the 14 resources you have given, it shows your intention. Resources provided by Mirza will be added one by one, along with the book and page and ISBN numbers. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Resource sharing (talk • contribs) 20:38, 1 October 2020 (UTC)
- So you're fine with using a national anthem as academic evidence? Armanqur (talk) 20:33, 1 October 2020 (UTC)
- Most of his sources are outdated and unreliable. You can try adding them if you want, but I'm sure that others will quickly see the flaws. Again, your racist comments aren't warranted; it doesn't matter what the race of the writer is. Armanqur (talk) 20:42, 1 October 2020 (UTC)
- Ninety percent of the sources are completely correct and there are books and sources suitable for this. You are generating information from your own head, you are not qualified. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Resource sharing (talk • contribs) 20:46, 1 October 2020 (UTC)
- Most of his sources are outdated and unreliable. You can try adding them if you want, but I'm sure that others will quickly see the flaws. Again, your racist comments aren't warranted; it doesn't matter what the race of the writer is. Armanqur (talk) 20:42, 1 October 2020 (UTC)
- I actually am pretty qualified, but you don't need be qualified to recognize that these sources are all outdated and unreliable, especially the national anthem. Most of them were written a century ago, or even over a century ago, and have since been disproven and discredited. Furthermore, none of you have posted any modern scholarly or peer-reviewed sources because they don't exist; they don't exist because no one believes in this old theory anymore other than Kurdish nationalists. Armanqur (talk) 20:55, 1 October 2020 (UTC)
- Thank you for making it very clear that you are Kurdophobic after this reply. Spending time for people like you is a waste of time.Israeli historian and Minorsky quite et al .. quite modern and accepted sources.You show that you have nothing to do with the subject. And you have made changes everywhere the word Kurd is used. Many of them have been undone. You're not important because you're committing the vandalism crime bye. Resource sharing (talk) 21:06, 1 October 2020 (UTC)
- I actually am pretty qualified, but you don't need be qualified to recognize that these sources are all outdated and unreliable, especially the national anthem. Most of them were written a century ago, or even over a century ago, and have since been disproven and discredited. Furthermore, none of you have posted any modern scholarly or peer-reviewed sources because they don't exist; they don't exist because no one believes in this old theory anymore other than Kurdish nationalists. Armanqur (talk) 20:55, 1 October 2020 (UTC)
- How am I a Kurdophobe when I'm for Kurdish independence? What I'm not for, however, is pseudo-history and the politicization of history. Again, most of those sources are outdated and have been disproven. Armanqur (talk) 21:14, 1 October 2020 (UTC)
- None of the given sources have been refuted or out of date, just the thought in your mind. Looking at your Page history, I can see how Kurdophobic you are. Resource sharing (talk) 21:22, 1 October 2020 (UTC)
- How am I a Kurdophobe when I'm for Kurdish independence? What I'm not for, however, is pseudo-history and the politicization of history. Again, most of those sources are outdated and have been disproven. Armanqur (talk) 21:14, 1 October 2020 (UTC)
- Actually, they're all out of date and have been refuted. Why else is it that you can't provide any modern academic sources on the matter? The only sources that perpetuate this old theory are old sources; this is a simple fact that you seem to have a difficult time accepting. Armanqur (talk) 21:25, 1 October 2020 (UTC)
- The source you shared is an article written in 2006, and it is very ironic that you say that the 14 sources given by Mirza are backward or invalid. Another ironic in trying to get to the top with just one work. Waide Jwaideh, a professor of history at the University of California, says in a 2009 study that Medes are the ancestors of the Kurds.Where is the disproved source? Where is the old source? Where is the irrelevant source? Resource sharing (talk) 21:41, 1 October 2020 (UTC)
- Actually, they're all out of date and have been refuted. Why else is it that you can't provide any modern academic sources on the matter? The only sources that perpetuate this old theory are old sources; this is a simple fact that you seem to have a difficult time accepting. Armanqur (talk) 21:25, 1 October 2020 (UTC)
The source you shared is an article written in 2006, and it is very ironic that you say that the 14 sources given by Mirza are backward or invalid. Another ironic in trying to get to the top with just one work. Waide Jwaideh, a professor of history at the University of California, says in a 2009 study that Medes are the ancestors of the Kurds.Where is the disproved source? Where is the old source? Where is the irrelevant source? Resource sharing (talk) 21:36, 1 October 2020 (UTC)
Do you even know what Ironic means? Anyways, I said most of the sources are outdated, not all. Besides, I don't think anyone would consider Waide Jwaideh as a reliable and reviewed source, otherwise this person's work would have already been listed in the article. Also, all this person did was reference Minorsky, an already disproven and outdated source. Every contemporary academic source that I could find on the matter state that the Mede-Kurd theory is nothing more than pseudo-history and historical revisionism. Armanqur (talk) 21:42, 1 October 2020 (UTC)
Yes, it may be refuted or out of date in your ideas, but many of them are approved.Keep thinking that way. Resource sharing (talk) 21:53, 1 October 2020 (UTC)
- Yes, I do think that way as do all others who only focus on academic and peer-reviewed sources. Like most others, I'm annoyed by historical revisionism, pseudo-history and the politicization of history. Good luck to you on getting any of these outdated, disproven and unreliable sources posted on the page, especially the national anthem. Armanqur (talk) 21:58, 1 October 2020 (UTC)
- There are not "many" results or researches on the Wikipedia page of Medes as you think that Meds are not Kurds.Oh, but if you are talking about the writers who said "Sumerians are Turkish", I don't know that Resource sharing (talk) 22:14, 1 October 2020 (UTC)
- Yes, I do think that way as do all others who only focus on academic and peer-reviewed sources. Like most others, I'm annoyed by historical revisionism, pseudo-history and the politicization of history. Good luck to you on getting any of these outdated, disproven and unreliable sources posted on the page, especially the national anthem. Armanqur (talk) 21:58, 1 October 2020 (UTC)
- Maybe you're an admirer and supporter of the Kurdish intellectual Hamma Mirwaisi? Armanqur (talk) 22:21, 1 October 2020 (UTC)
- I will be watching your incredibly unreasonable changes you made about Kurds with curiosity. Resource sharing (talk) 22:27, 1 October 2020 (UTC)
@Armanqur: Hamma Mirwaisi is good Kurdish intellectual. Kurds are medes. everyone in world knows this as best truth. Mirwaisi prove it. Dirokakurdi (talk) 22:33, 1 October 2020 (UTC)