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==John== |
==John== |
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Some editors are wanting to restore the skeptical POV that existed on [[Gospel of John]]. I made a comment on the talk page on this, although am going to mostly stay out of this. You seem to know a lot about this topic, so I think it would be good if you could make some more comments on the talk page so we can get an end product that isn't as skewed as it was before.[[User:RomanHistorian|RomanHistorian]] ([[User talk:RomanHistorian|talk]]) 16:19, 27 October 2010 (UTC) |
Some editors are wanting to restore the skeptical POV that existed on [[Gospel of John]]. I made a comment on the talk page on this, although am going to mostly stay out of this. You seem to know a lot about this topic, so I think it would be good if you could make some more comments on the talk page so we can get an end product that isn't as skewed as it was before.[[User:RomanHistorian|RomanHistorian]] ([[User talk:RomanHistorian|talk]]) 16:19, 27 October 2010 (UTC) |
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==Jesus== |
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I appreciate your participation with the editing of [[Gospel of John]]. If you have a second, could you please leave your two cents over on the talk page of [[Jesus]] (the discussion on this issue is at [[Talk:Jesus#Disputed_vs._debated]]). Three of my edits were reverted ([http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Jesus&action=historysubmit&diff=393325141&oldid=393239091 here], [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Jesus&diff=394243246&oldid=394181442 here] and [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Jesus&diff=394245526&oldid=394243246 here]). I think they better reflected scholarly debate on the issues, and I am wondering what you think about them and if they should be part of the article.[[User:RomanHistorian|RomanHistorian]] ([[User talk:RomanHistorian|talk]]) 02:09, 2 November 2010 (UTC) |
Revision as of 02:09, 2 November 2010
Welcome!
Hello, TomHennell, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers:
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I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you need help, check out Wikipedia:Where to ask a question, ask me on my talk page, or place {{helpme}}
on your talk page and someone will show up shortly to answer your questions. Again, welcome! Dustimagic *\o/* (talk/contribs) *\o/* 03:21, 18 January 2006 (UTC)
King James Version Article
Hello,
I made an edit which linked to the 1769 text, and you deleted it saying it was a duplicate. However, there were NO OTHER LINKS to this text. It's the King James text most people know, and would expect to find in such an article. There was a reference to a publisher that produces a hard copy, but the site I linked to has it for free in an online form. Why did you make that edit? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.16.12.156 (talk) 16:20, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
- the full 1769 Oxford Text is provided as Wikisource (see the reference here). In general, for copyright reasons, if a text is available as Wikisource there should be no other link to other sites with the same text. Wikipedia is not a directory of web links. Futhermore, you may not have noticed that the particular link you provided does not access the full King James text, as it omits the Apocrypha (a common problem with Biblical sites, and one that can potentially be very misleading, as they very rarely make it clear to the casual browser that they are only providing a partial text). TomHennell (talk) 01:09, 15 August 2008 (UTC)
Malformed code in Anglicanism article
In the reference section of the Anglicanism article it looks like there some malformed code. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.90.228.115 (talk) 01:22, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
John and Jesus
Hi Tom: About John in the Qur'an, the verse said: "Believing (mosadekan) in a word from Allah". Even if "a word from Allah" refers to Jesus, it doesn't specifically mean that he was a harbenger of Jesus, as also their age were so close to each other. But in the other hand when Allah talked about Jesus in the Qur'an He said clearly, "Harbenger (mobasheran) by a messanger who will come after me his name is Ahmad". AAboelela
Shamsuddin
Thank for deleting the Shamsuddin references off Gospel of Barnabas. You beat me to it! --JBJ830726 02:20, 19 January 2006 (UTC)
GoB
please see my comment on GoB talk page --Mido 12:18, 27 February 2006 (UTC)
- You're welcome Tom. --Mido 14:55, 27 February 2006 (UTC)
- Hey Tom,
- Many of the non-canonized pseudepigraphical Gospels are considered "Gnostic", though the Gnostic community themselves are having a hard time defining what Gnosticism is exactly, as you can tell from the Gnosticism article. You are right, I probably should justify this in the Gospel of Barnabas talk page, and I will (hopefully without generating too much of a debate). This Gospel in particular, is problematic because its origin is so late, nonetheless, there are some who argue it was based upon earlier text and treat it as 'secrect knowledge' though I personally accept its origin as having been inspired by Islam. I guess we'll have to see what others say about it.
- LinuxDude 13:46, 10 April 2006 (UTC)
re
Tom, perhaps I am mistaken. I thought Tatian used the LXX. Lostcaesar 22:32, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
Masoretic Text
Hello,
I'm not sure what this missing text should be called. Presumably, it should be what the experts call it, whatever that is. What I have called it in the past is "the Hebrew Bible", or the "current [time provided by context] Hebrew text", or even simply "the Tanakh". Not very exact, but at least not incorrect. I do not know whether more precision is possible, although it is certainly desirable. Best regards, Rwflammang 17:31, 29 January 2007 (UTC).
If you have a reference to scholars calling this missing text "MT" in any sort of formal document (i.e., not an informal colloquium or chat room), please let me know. Rwflammang 18:24, 29 January 2007 (UTC)
Recent edit to Western text-type
Thank you for your recent edit to Western text-type. Your edit included one or more links to the page Greek, which is a disambiguation page. This type of page is intended to direct users to more specific topics. Ordinarily we try to avoid creating links to disambiguation pages, since it is preferable to link directly to the specific topic relevant to the context. You can help Wikipedia by revising the links you added to Western text-type to refer directly to the most relevant topic. (This message was generated by an automatic process; if you believe it to be in error, please accept our apologies and to help us improve this feature.) --Russ (talk) 17:42, 12 February 2007 (UTC)
Constantinople
To quote the song "Istanbul was Constantinople" and in fact was so until the 20th century. Also, since the references were to Greek libraries, I think it is more appropriate a name. Str1977 (smile back) 21:01, 17 March 2007 (UTC)
Saints
I was not making a personal POV value judgment, as much as following my interpretation (which hopefully isn't misguided) of the naming conventions and manual of style. My first concern is that the name of the article on this person is Jerome, not Saint Jerome. The reason for this is WP:NCNT: Saints go by their most common English name, minus the "Saint"... Furthermore, the spirit of MoS:BIO seems to suggest we shouldn't throw the title "Saint" around when not necessary. Those guidelines says we shouldn't use "Dr." or "Professor", nor honorifics like "His holiness" or "Her majesty", instead favoring a prose explanations of these characteristics "X obtained a doctorate in physics from Cornell" "Y, who is called honorifically "His majesty" by his subjects". So we could say "Jerome, who is revered by Eastern Orthodox and Catholic Churches as a saint, worked on translating the Greek bible into Latin". But going to the article and adding an honorific title in front of every instance of his name, when the article isn't even named "Saint Jerome" seems to go against the above cited guidelines. I hope you understand.-Andrew c 14:41, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
Pericope de Adultera
You deleted my chart with this note:
Is this original reasearch of your own, or has it been published? If the former, then - whatever its merits - it should be removed.
What kind of nonsense is that? It is original research of my own, and it has every right to be in the article, which is a discussion of the evidence for and against the passage.
"whatever its merits - it should be removed" ??? what are you talking about?
Facts and theories should always of course be evaluated based upon their merits, and not just "authorities". If you object to its implications, or question its interpretation as evidence, then just add your own comments, and keep them separate from mine.
This passage in John is a controversial passage, with many variations to be found in contemporary scholarly opinion. You can't just impose your own here at Wikipedia. A good article on this subject will eventually accumulate a wide variety of opinion and evidence from independant research, and that is what will make it a good article. At least 100 articles a year are published on John, and dozens on this passage.
Don't try to censor research or filibuster accumulated evidence. If you can't contribute constructively, leave the article alone.
Sincerely, Naz
Tom, you're right that I didn't carefully distinguish between "genuine" and "original to John." I count on smart people to catch me when I overreach, so thanks. Next, I'd like to find a way to point out that the proponents of "original to John" are the scholarly equivalent of creationists. Leadwind (talk) 00:04, 8 March 2008 (UTC)
I'm on your side now in the battle over the 'z' ! Cheers! Wassupwestcoast 20:10, 2 September 2007 (UTC)
Bishops Bible
This could be made a GA article with a minimal amount of effort. Can you help me cite existing material? -- SECisek 17:04, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
- I meant the main article, but once it is GA we could easily cut down and paste a very good section for the KJV article. Are you familiar with Wikipedia:Inline citation? We need to cite what is already there and then round out the article, but it is close. -- SECisek 15:48, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
First see Wikipedia:Footnotes then look at Wikipedia:Citation templates. They seem at first as if they are very difficult to use, however they are not. They also make getting a GA promotion for an article quite easy. In-line citations are the most important things you can learn to use at wikipedia.
If it is too much for you, continue to put as much info about the source as possible in brackets and someone like myself will drop it into a proper reference for you. Everything entered into Wikipedia should have citation if possible. If you have more questions, feel free to ask me. -- SECisek 17:24, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
Morning Prayer/BCP
Tom, I see you've turned you're attention to these articles. Some time ago, I made a bit of an effort at straightening out Morning Prayer, but didn't get particularly far. Still, you may find User:David Underdown/Morning Prayer useful (or not). Morning Prayer is dreadfully lacking in references, so it would be a great help if you could add some, if you have relevant sources. David Underdown 14:33, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
Shakespeare and the BCP
I am sorry if I jumped in wrongly. 'Thou shalt do no murder' which you quote is, of course, from the book of Exodus also. Can yo tell me of examples, not from Scripture that are from the BCP in Shakespeare. I had thought, from Susan Bridgen as well as from Duffy, that Shakespeare'sw references are mostly (and subversively) Catholic; but they may be wrong.Roger Arguile 09:56, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
Thank you for that. I am convinced. I am still not sure what the implication is. If that is the only reference connectng the playwright with the BCP the sentence suggests more of a connection than the use of a common phrase. Shakespeare would, of course, have attended church - the law required it - but he was no different from anyone else.
BTW I hope you take no offence at my deleting the material on parish worship - which WUTWC has now restored. I did so with some reluctance and should really have offered a justification - which I shall now do. My problem is partly with evidence and partly with relevance. (I was also instrigued that you added it, as far as I can see, under the rubric of a minor amendment, but no matter.) Roger Arguile 07:29, 10 October 2007 (UTC)
Anglican collaboration of the month
Wassupwestcoast 01:46, 6 October 2007 (UTC)
I know very well that you've done a ton of work for the article. One of the things it very much needs is to provide more in-line citations. Since most of the existing citations are already yours - you are practically the only editor who added sourced text - would you be able to source: at least the obvious unsourced bits? I realize this is an imposition and Wikipedia is very much voluntary driven so please don't misunderstand...I'm only pleading for your expertise. So if you want to and you have th inclination it would be a useful excerise. Cheers! Wassupwestcoast (talk) 22:12, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
- Sorry, I have not abandoned you! I have allocated a couple of hours tomorrow to help you format the citations! Cheers! Wassupwestcoast (talk) 01:55, 24 January 2008 (UTC)
- Hi, Did you mean 'Daniell, David (2003), The Bible in English: its history and influence', because the Harvard citations had (Daniell 2005). I changed everything to '2003'. Hope I haven't mucked things up. I will continue copy edit tomorrow. Cheers! Wassupwestcoast (talk) 00:57, 25 January 2008 (UTC)
- absolutely right - I must get new glasses. TomHennell (talk) 01:07, 25 January 2008 (UTC)
Authorized King James Version
In the Authorized King James Version article, for the reference to Bruce, Frederick Fyvie (2002), History of the Bible in English, Cambridge: Lutterworth Press, ISBN 0718890329, I have changed the harvard reference (Bruce 1970 p=??) to (Bruce 2002 p=??). Is this OK?. And, the same thing with the reference to Daiches, David (1968), The King James Version of the English Bible: An Account of the Development and Sources of the English Bible of 1611 With Special Reference to the Hebrew Tradition, Hamden, Conn: Archon Books, ISBN 0208004939. The harvard citation was to (Daiches 1941 p =??) and I've changed it to (Daiches 1968 pp=??). Is this also OK? Cheers! Wassupwestcoast (talk) 22:46, 31 January 2008 (UTC)
Further
You may want to take Authorized King James Version to Wikipedia:Peer review and then to Wikipedia:Featured article candidates. Mind you it is a miserable process. Cheers! Wassupwestcoast (talk) 23:08, 31 January 2008 (UTC)
Authorized Version
I see you have changed this from UK spelling (..ize) to US spelling (..ise) - on the principle of local usage within quotes. I am afraid I cannot understand your logic, but will not change it back without giving you an opportunity to explain fully. TomHennell (talk) 02:21, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
- Thanks Tom, I appreciate the opportunnity. The logic is that it is commonly known as the "Authorised Version" in the United Kingdom, but it is not known as the "Authorized Version" here. It isn't the spelling of the word 'authoris/zed' that we are discussing, but the title of a book in usage in the UK. I hope this clarifies. DavidFarmbrough (talk) 12:55, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
- Thanks for your comments, I am interested in what you say, although authorised version is how I have always seen it here in the UK. Google "authorised version bible" gives 325,000 and the same text with the 's' gives 1,740,000. The text of :: http://journals.cambridge.org/action/displayAbstract?fromPage=online&aid=280570 shows 'authorised' in the text, even though the heading has the AE version. I can understand that an American based commentator may well use the AE spelling of Authorized, which is fine, but it wouldn't be correct to say that that is how it is referred to in the UK. DavidFarmbrough (talk) 17:50, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
Seabury
There has been some question about who was the first Anglican bishop outside the British Isles. Do you have a proper and irrefutable citation for Samuel Seabury so we can end this mess? --Secisek (talk) 10:04, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
Rood, Rood screen and Pulpitum
Somebody asked me about these, and the interwiki links to the screen seem to mostly relate to the pulpitum, as does the commonscat. I have adjusted some, I hope correctly, but others remain as they were. Johnbod (talk) 23:03, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
- Hi, I just asked a question about this on the Talk:Rood screen discussion page. Maybe someone can help me understand this more correctly, so we can decide about the interwiki link from the German article. Thanks! Anna (talk) 22:58, 15 June 2008 (UTC)
Mr Ehrman now has a very bad problem. [1] According to Ehrman there are no such text to validate that the resurrection was not made up whole cloth by Greek communities before the canon text was put to paper. According to Ehrman because of no evidence it had to have been all "made up" with one outrageous tale trying to out do the previous. Well now, so much for that. LoveMonkey (talk) 03:32, 6 July 2008 (UTC)
Authorized King James Version
I have reverted again the US spellings. If you check the talk page you will find that this has been extensively discussed, and the ruling agreed is that British English is to be preferred consistently in this article. This follows the general Wiki rule (which is not as you appear to think); that any articles relating to British subjects use British English, ditto Australian, ditto American. Otherwise, spelling and grammar should generally follow that of the originator of the article - and should not be changed from one form to another. There is no rule that Wikipedia generally conforms to any one set of local English conventions. TomHennell (talk) 00:09, 12 August 2008 (UTC)
- I must have overlooked that. The old adage "Always look before you leap" comes to mind. I somehow missed seeing that little notice. That makes sense. Once you get to know me better, you'll find out that I've become somewhat famous here on WP for my stupid moments. Chalk this up as another one of those. My apologies and thanks for the explanation and for not making me feel more stupid than I've already shown myself to be. Good to know. Best wishes. --Jgstokes-We can disagree without being disagreeable (talk) 00:21, 12 August 2008 (UTC)
Extensive Formal Equivalence of the Bible
No the state was accurate that was posted before because it this is verified by both the Library of Congress and Guiness as the first formal equivalence translation of the Ancient Hebrew Bible into English. The translations that you were refering to are actually a balence between dynamic and formal equivalence translations. View an example of the text online at http://tcprayer.bravehost.com/torah1.htm. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Saverx (talk • contribs) 16:27, 26 August 2008 (UTC)
Yes, Minuscule 2427 is 19th century forgery, but it represents the Alexandrian text-type in the best quality (without Byzantine readings). Every manuscript with the Alexandrian text which was written after 4th century has allien readings (usually Byzantine). Minuscule 2427 is classified in official catalogues, official institutions (Institute for New Testament Textual Research). It has I Category of Aland. It is not very important in which century was written manuscript. More important is from which manuscripts was rewritten. Many manuscripts with Alexandrian text-type were corrected by peoples who preffered Byzantince text-type (f.e. P66 Codex Sinaiticus, Codex Regius). Many mansucripts were destroyed (f.e. Codex Coislinianus). Why so many Alexandrian manuscripts are in a fragmentary and very poor condition? (f.e. Minuscule 33, Codex Sinaiticus, Codex Freerianus). Only Codex Vaticanus is in good condition, because it was not used very often.
Wikipedia, it is not place for a private opinions. The articles must represent official point of vieuw of experts in every field.
By the way, you distroyed an article by deleting end marks of the table |}.
The Alexandrian text uses grammar from Greek-koine (f.e. οι δε ειπαν), Byzantine text uses grammar from Byzantine-Greek (f.e. οι δε ειπον). This text has not much additions, manuscripts represented this tradition are in great agreement. Unfortunately we cannot say that about manuscript of the Byzantine text-type (a lot of individual readings, a lot of additions). Dean Burgon and Edward Miller were last scholars which supported Byzantine text-type, but they lived in 19th century, and they did not have our knowledge. According to Burgon Textus Receptus must be corrected. Two of his books about reconstruction of Byzantine text-type were published posthoumosly.
One year ago Deutsche Bibelgesselschaft edited The Gospel According to John in the Byzantine Tradition. They used only one uncial codex in main text, Codex Koridethi, other uncials are cited only in crittical apparatus. Yes, only one uncial, but in Introduction you can read: "Manuscript 038 (Θ) represents a text on the boundary of what might reasonably be considered a manuscript of the Byzantine tradition in John" (Introduction, p. V). This edition based on minuscule 35 from 11th century. Codex Alexandrinus, Codex Ephraemi, Codex Basilensis, and other uncials which represent early Byzantine text are cited only in crittical apparatus. Supportes of Byzantine text-type and supportes of Textus Receptus in one point are agreed, they do not like ancient readings. They always think, every early manuscript is corrupted, only late manuscript is good.
Of course Byzantine text-type it is not Textus Receptus. Ortodox Church never used and never will use Textus Receptus. Textus Receptus has about 40 readings (or more) from Codex Bezae (Robert Estienne used Codex Bazae). It has some Ceasarean readings in Gospels (from Minuscule 1). It was influenced by Vulgate. Why do you prefer text in which so much corruptions? So much additions.
I red book of D.A. Waite, Defending the King James Bible. I know your point of vieuw. 99% of manuscript represent "traditional text". 85% of papyri represent traditional text. Old-Latin manuscripts represented "traditional text". Ireneus, Origen and other church fathers used traditional text. In Codex Sinaiticus 14 000 corrections. Why so much lieses? The Western text-type has nothing common with Textus Receptus (only Byzantine grammar, and some readings, not numerous which were used by Robert Estienne). The Alexandrian text in 85% agrees with Textus Receptus, and always you can find some "traditional" readings in every ancient manuscript. Peoples who read this type of books will never know true. They think, Textus Receptus was always in using, they think Orthodox church uses this text. Who corrected Codex Sinaiticus?
I prefer Alexandrian text-type, because this text use original grammar, and not much corruptions in this text (f.e. itacismus), but I see some errors, and some lacks in this text.
I know you love Holy Scripture. You prefer Textus Receptus because it was used by protestant in 16th century. It belongs to protestant tradition. But I think a protestant must stay with distance to every tradition, even protestant tradition. Be sure I am protestant. Leszek Jańczuk (talk) 14:02, 3 October 2008 (UTC)
- Thanks. I will not include 2427 to this table again, but probably Codex Guelferbytanus B also should be excluded from this table. It is surprised that even authoriteis like Kurt Aland bielieved in this codex. I appreciate Burgon and Miller but not Waite. God bless you. Leszek Jańczuk (talk) 00:25, 4 October 2008 (UTC)
- One of the most interesting additions of the Alexandrian text-type we can find in Gospel of Matthew 27:49: "The other took a spear and pierced His side, and immediately water and blood came out" (see: John 19:34). We can find this textual variant in codices: Sinaiticus, Vaticanus, Regius, and several other witnesses of Alexandrian text-type. Of course it is not authentical. Probably it was added in a result of figthing with Docetism. Every from four textes of the NT is corrupt, but in different way. Leszek Jańczuk (talk) 02:47, 4 October 2008 (UTC)
Byzantine text-type
In section Characteristics of the Byzantine text, in second paragraph, of this article I found a something strange:
(...) many distinctive Byzantine readings have been found in these texts — albeit in manuscripts that otherwise conform more to other text-types or none. Word albeit. I do not understand. Is it correct? We should do a something. Congratulatons for your work in Papyrus 52. With regards. Leszek Jańczuk (talk) 22:44, 30 December 2008 (UTC)
- I did not finish my work in this article. It will take a lot of time in the future. Leszek Jańczuk (talk) 01:17, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
You have a lot of edits in articles like Mark 16, John 7:53-8:11, and Comma Johanneum. It means Matt. 16:2b-3 should be your subject. It is also an interesting passage. I only initiated article, but it is not finished. Of course here is no place for original research, but if we will use all arguments and opinions of scholars it will enough. Do you have some interesting arguments? I invite you for editing in this article. This article should have at least 15 000 scores, I think. With regards. Leszek Jańczuk (talk) 23:59, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
I see your work. When you will finish give more references and the article can receive GA. Congratulation. The articles "Codex Alexandrinus" and "Codex Vaticanus" and several others should be GA in the future. So, we have work. You can also edit Textual variants in the New Testament if you have a time. Leszek Jańczuk (talk) 09:57, 21 April 2009 (UTC)
KJV Italics
Hello.
It is my policy to avoid "revert wars" whenever possible. I do so by discussing the conflicting statements in order to resolve the issue.
You have made a change "correcting the correction" in the King James Version article.
My copy of the KJV uses two typefaces, Roman and Italic, as has every printing for at least the past 200 years. Directly translated words are printed in Roman. Due to the fact that Hebrew and Greek to not follow English syntactical rules, in was necesssary to supply other words either to conform to English grammar or to avoid gross ambiguities. These words are printed in Italics.
When I came upon the article, it had the two typefaces interchanged, with the Italics for the straight translation, and the Roman for the supplied words. I corrected this.
Now you have come along and replaced it with a claim that the two typefaces are Blackletter and Roman. This is incorrect, as a glance at a copy of the KJV will demonstrate.
And now I ask myself how would someone who appears to know his business come to make such a mistake. Only one solution comes to mind. It is possible - and mind you this is merely a guess on my part - that you may be aware of a fact not in my possession, to wit, the orginal edition of the KJV used a Blackletter/Roman combination which has since been universally replaced with the Roman/Italic system.
If such is the case, then you are obligated to clarify matters by inserting the information that the Blackletter/Roman combo has been superceded by the Roman/Italic. If, however, such is not the case, then your revision is merely an error and you should revert it.
That ball is in your court. B00P (talk) 06:12, 23 May 2009 (UTC)
- It appears that I made a remarkably good guess regarding typefaces. (I must be careful not to break my arm while patting myself on the back.)
- Your newly (re-)expanded version is well-written and clear. Issue resolved. B00P (talk) 02:52, 24 May 2009 (UTC)
Wiki Site
Hi there, fancy editing a new site? http://www.textus-receptus.com 124.184.242.189 (talk) 08:36, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
- Nice idea, but I suggest you should add the Septuagint to the Textus Receptus and Masoretic text in your set of source versions. A site that promotes the King James Bible should not ignore the KJV texts of the Apocrypha. TomHennell (talk) 08:46, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
Family Kr
Thanks for your edit. What do you think about Alexandrian variant in Mark 6:22:
- θυγατρος αυτου Ηρωδιαδος — א B D L Δ 565
The Byzantine text has θυγατρος αυτης Ηρωδιαδος and some other manuscripts have θυγατρος αυτης της Ηρωδιαδος (A C K Θ Π). Lectio dificilior? or corrupt? Alexandrian reading was preffered by Westcott-Hort and by Aland.
I think Codex Sinaiticus has mixed text. It has Caesarean readings in many places, but the Caesarean text is still not well defined. Interpolation in Matthew 8:13 is rather Caesarean, not Alexandrian. It has a lot of Western readings. Sinaiticus has some conflations:
Matthew 14:29
- και ηλθεν — B C 700 1010 syrc, s, copsa, arm geo
- ελθειν — אc, C2, D K L P W Δ Θ Π 073 0119 f1, f13, 28 33 565 892 1009 1071 Byz it vg copbo
- ελθειν ηλθεν ουν — א
Colossians 3:17
- κυριυ Ιησου — B Byz
- Ιησου Χριστου — A C D F G
- κυριυ — L
- κυριυ Ιησου Χριστου — א vgc
Vaticanus has conflation in Colossians 1:12:
- τω ικανωσαντι — p46, א, A C Dc E K L P W H
- τω καλεσαντι — D* F G d e f m
- τω καλεσαντι και ικανωσαντι — Β
According to Wisse Codex Bezae in Luke represents Alexandian text-type (chapters 1; 10; 20). It is not representant of pure Western text in the Gospels. Klijn in 1959 argumented that it has mixed text. Leszek Jańczuk (talk) 12:56, 17 July 2009 (UTC)
- I think the Alexandrian reading is corrupt. I do not know modern translations, which used the Alexandrian reading. In Matthew 8:13b Sinaiticus has interpolation (Caesarean?): και υποστρεψας ο εκατονταρχος εις τον οικον αυτου εν αυτη τη ωρα ευρεν τον παιδα υγιαινοντα (and when the centurion returned to the house in that hour, he found the slave well), as well as codices C, (N), Θ, (0250), f1, (33, 1241), g1, syrh. In several cases f1 supported text of Sinaiticus and Vaticanus almost against all other manuscripts. We need to expand families Kx and Kr. Unfortunatelly I use only work of Soden (digitalized and not complete) and work of Wisse (good work but only Luke 1, 10, and 20). I do not know work of Maurice Robinson (cited in the article Family Kr). Yesterday I found that text of Minuscule 483 represents Kx but in Luke it was corrected toward Kr. Leszek Jańczuk (talk) 12:21, 20 July 2009 (UTC)
Codex Vaticanus
Thanks for your work in Codex Fuldensis. We need expand this article, but actually I am looking for somebody who will copyedit Codex Vaticanus Graecus 1209. According to me some sections should be expanded (scribes and correctors, provenance, importance). Especially section importance is difficult to me because of my English. Leszek Jańczuk (talk) 11:42, 10 August 2009 (UTC)
- Today I have found this:
Very usefull. Leszek Jańczuk (talk) 14:09, 13 August 2009 (UTC)
Codex Romanus
Hi. "Codex Romanus", before Leszek intervened, was redirected to "Codex Vaticanus". I think it is better to keep it redirected so, instead of letting it point to any particular codex of the list there. Are there any objections? Mamurra (talk) 10:43, 13 August 2009 (UTC)
- None whatsoever, go ahead; assuming it is the case that all manuscrpits designated "Codex Romanus" are shelved in the Vatican library, then that would be entirely appropriate. But I thought it might be necessary to edit that particular disambiguation page to make clear what was going on to anyone finding themselves in it. Regards TomHennell (talk) 13:59, 13 August 2009 (UTC)
WH theory
This diagrammen was constracted on the basis of the Encyclopedia Biblica, vol. IV (1903). It looks like Westcott-Hort theory but perhaps not in every detail. The interrelationship between Peshitta and Coptic versions... Origen and Western text... A something strange. I think it is not stricte WH point of view. Leszek Jańczuk (talk) 18:47, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
Dissolution
Good question! I double-checked the Museum of London notice: the fragments are not specifically described as monastic or parochial, but the attached notice specifically explains the destructions of carvings during the "Dissolution", of which these fragments are shown as an example. The fragments are also part of an exhibit about the "Dissolution" proper, in which the introduction mentions the destruction of "religious houses". I guess this properly clarifies that the fragment should be under the "Dissolution" article. Thanks for asking! Best regards PHG Per Honor et Gloria 20:51, 8 November 2009 (UTC)
Your edits to the Mithras article
Tom, I see that you've made quite a number of edits to the Mithras article. But I couldn't see that you had given any references for any of them. Can you give a reference for each to a specialist scholarly source or an ancient source? Roger Pearse (talk) 19:43, 6 January 2010 (UTC)
- Will do (they are mainly from Clauss, as you probably recognise) TomHennell (talk) 09:53, 7 January 2010 (UTC)
- I wasn't sure, but I thought some looked familiar! Thanks for adding this! Roger Pearse (talk) 10:20, 7 January 2010 (UTC)
Can you explain this to me? It says in the intro that the cathedral has "flat fan-vaulted ceilings". What is mean by this? There is a fan vault under the tower. Do the aisles also have fan vaults, and can they be reasonably described as "flat"? Has the writer unknowingly confused some mention of the tower vault with the flat wooden arch-braced ceiling? Amandajm (talk) 14:03, 8 January 2010 (UTC)
- the only fan vault is the one within the tower. All the other vessels have low-pitch wooden roofs, that of the nave being supported by the famous "angel orchestra". The church as we now see it was rebuilt by the Stanley's (the Earls of Derby) after they had struck rich by backing Henry VII at the Battle of Bosworth (and by Thomas Stanley marrying the Kings mother, Margert Beaufort). In effect, the Manchester college became a sort of secondary Windsor or Chapel Royal, which is how it survived the Reformation as a collegiate corporation. TomHennell (talk) 15:25, 8 January 2010 (UTC)
- I think this image was taken in the main nave of Manchester Cathedral (although you'd have to ask user:Parrot of Doom who took the image), and for what it's worth it doesn't look anything like the photo on the fan vault article. The article probably needs to say which bits are fan-vaulted (preferably with a source). Nev1 (talk) 15:38, 8 January 2010 (UTC)
- Picture is taken from under the west tower, looking east - the fan vault is directly overhead. You can see the angel orchestra supporting the nave roof (with gilded instruments)
- What my query here intends to indicate is that someone who is working on this article and is familiar with the building needs to correct this small problem. Amandajm (talk) 11:34, 9 January 2010 (UTC)
Cathedral
Message on talk page. Amandajm (talk) 11:38, 16 January 2010 (UTC)
Cit Error
Tom, I noticed a red cit error notice in the Ref. section but do not know what the problem is. Can you look into it. Thanks - Ret.Prof (talk) 01:39, 16 February 2010 (UTC)
British bias in Rood Screen article
For example a chapter entitled "Notable British examples" gives me the idea that we aren't unable (or ignorant) to find details about other countries. If it is not a extremely typical feature of one country, we should give the article an international scope (for example retitling that paragraph as "Examples", with subsections "Britain", "Germany", "Scandinavia" etc... For an Italian example, see my new Vezzolano Abbey (the link leads to a photo of the rood screen, I seem; by the way, if you've time you could cleanup my mediocre English). Let me know and good work.--'''Attilios''' (talk) 19:46, 24 May 2010 (UTC)
You are now a Reviewer
Hello. Your account has been granted the "reviewer" userright, allowing you to review other users' edits on certain flagged pages. Pending changes, also known as flagged protection, is currently undergoing a two-month trial scheduled to end 15 August 2010.
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Gospel of John
Thank you for your comment. The quotation you cited was altered from what I originally posted. I only posted that the Gospel of John's sole reference to the Nativity was at least apparently contradictory to the nativity story found in Luke and Matthew. This is not verbatim how I put it in that particular article, but as I wrote it in Nativity of Jesus:
- "The Gospel of John makes only a passing reference to the nativity in a discussion among Pharisees in chapter 7. John 7:42 quotes a Pharisee as saying "Shall Christ come out of Galilee? Hath not the Scripture said, That Christ cometh of the seed of David, and out of the town of Bethlehem," and later in 7:52 the same Pharisee states "Search, and look: for out of Galilee ariseth no prophet," stating that Jesus was not born in Bethlehem but in Galilee. John does nothing to refute or correct the Pharisee (nor to affirm him) in his claim. This is the only reference to the birth of Jesus in the Gospel of John; John instead focuses on the concept of the Word of God become flesh."
I am not of sufficient expertise to answer your question on irony, and I did not put that statement there; someone else who edited the page after me did. An earlier edit of mine had in fact claimed that John implicitly endorsed it, but I revised that statement as it would be in the realm of original research and conjecture on my part, which obviously doesn't belong here. The main point I was trying to make in that statement is the difference between the nativity in Matthew and Luke and the picture given by this conversation in John, which can be fairly stated given the scripture alone. Feel free to revise/remove at your own discretion.J. Myrle Fuller (talk) 02:36, 1 August 2010 (UTC)
Cathedral
Good grief! One has to watch articles so carefully! Many editors are hesitant to delete some inane, out-of-place material because it is factual, apparently factual, or even referenced. I missed that one. My favourite was the description of a church organ that was powered by a fan driven by an electric motor in a small purpose-built shed beside the church. Someone inserted the details of the free lunchtime recitals on Tuesday in such a way that it read as if they took part in the shed. Amandajm (talk) 17:15, 3 August 2010 (UTC)
Gospel of John
Re: the Jesus Seminar. I replied to your post on the talk page with a simple "support", but I wanted to express my appreciation here for the work you put into your thoughtful reply. Rklawton (talk) 23:17, 7 October 2010 (UTC)
John
Some editors are wanting to restore the skeptical POV that existed on Gospel of John. I made a comment on the talk page on this, although am going to mostly stay out of this. You seem to know a lot about this topic, so I think it would be good if you could make some more comments on the talk page so we can get an end product that isn't as skewed as it was before.RomanHistorian (talk) 16:19, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
Jesus
I appreciate your participation with the editing of Gospel of John. If you have a second, could you please leave your two cents over on the talk page of Jesus (the discussion on this issue is at Talk:Jesus#Disputed_vs._debated). Three of my edits were reverted (here, here and here). I think they better reflected scholarly debate on the issues, and I am wondering what you think about them and if they should be part of the article.RomanHistorian (talk) 02:09, 2 November 2010 (UTC)