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<big>'''Case Opened''' on 14:38, 17 August 2011 (UTC)</big> |
<big>'''Case Opened''' on 14:38, 17 August 2011 (UTC)</big> |
Revision as of 14:48, 17 August 2011
Case clerk: TBD Drafting arbitrator: TBD
Wikipedia Arbitration |
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Track related changes |
If you have evidence you wish to present, please post it at the evidence page. Proposals may be made at the workshop.
Case Opened on 14:38, 17 August 2011 (UTC)
Please do not edit this page directly unless you are either 1) an Arbitrator, 2) an Arbitration Clerk, or 3) adding yourself to this case. Statements on this page are original comments provided when the Committee was initially requested to Arbitrate this page (at Requests for arbitration), and serve as opening statements; as such, they should not be altered. Any evidence you wish to provide to the Arbitrators should go on the /Evidence subpage.
Arbitrators, the parties, and other editors may suggest proposed principles, findings, and remedies at /Workshop. That page may also be used for general comments on the evidence. Arbitrators will then vote on a final decision in the case at /Proposed decision.
Once the case is closed, editors may add to the #Log of blocks, bans, and restrictions as needed, but this page should not be edited otherwise. Please raise any questions at Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration#Requests for clarification, and report violations of remedies at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Arbitration enforcement.
Involved parties
- Qwyrxian (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA), filing party
- Tenmei (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
- Bobthefish2 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
- STSC (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
- Lvhis (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
- Oda Mari (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
- Phoenix7777 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
- John Smith's (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
- Benlisquare (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
- Penwhale (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA)
- Feezo (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA)
- Magog the Ogre (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA)
- Zscout370 (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA)
Statement by Qwyrxian
Senkaku Islands and Senkaku Islands dispute have been the subject of dispute as far back as 2003 (See Talk:Senkaku Islands/Archive 1). Senkaku Islands has been protected 5 times, including twice in the past year, and is currently fully protected. Senkaku Islands dispute has been protected 5 times since its creation in October 2010, and is currently fully protected. The issues being debated range from individual word and grammatical choices, to identifying and interpreting RS's, to overall organization. One of the most persistent arguments revolves around the article title itself. The page has been moved unilaterally several times (see page logs), but was moved back each time. Various steps of dispute resolution have been taken; none have succeeding in ending the disputes. Specifically:
- July 2007—Talk:Senkaku Islands/Archive 3#Requested move: Request to move to "Pinnacle Islands".
- September 2010—Talk:Senkaku Islands/Archive 3#Requested move 2: Request to move to "Pinnacle Islands".
- November 2010—Talk:Senkaku Islands/Archive 6#What should the title of this article be?: RfC on the article title.
- May – July 2011—Wikipedia:Requests for mediation/Senkaku Islands: MedCom mediation.
Also, issues relating to these pages have been raised on noticeboards and Wikitalk pages, including WP:NORN (Wikipedia:No original research/Noticeboard/Archive 15#Figure captions in Senkaku Island/Diaoyutai article), WP:NPOVN (Wikipedia:Neutral point of view/Noticeboard/Archive 20#Long running dispute on Senkaku Islands dispute), WP:ANI (Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive8#Senkaku Islands stolen?, Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive644#Senkaku Islands dispute, Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive712#Senkaku Islands - admin COI intervention), WT:NCGN (4 discussions, see search results), and possibly others.
The aforementioned Mediation failed. It closed after numerous editors were unable to behave and stay on topic; eventually, several editors abandoned mediation and it closed without any useful result. These behavioral problems have been rampant on the article talk pages and related user talk pages since 2010. Some editors have held that no matter what consensus says, the current article title will never be acceptable. Others have used baiting and borderline personal attacks. Others overwhelm the talk page with extremely complex and nearly impossible to follow philosophical arguments and graphics. One editor was taken to WQA for xyr behaviors on these pages (Wikipedia:Wikiquette assistance/archive99#User:Bobthefish2); another was the subject of an RFC/U (Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Tenmei). While in the past I had hoped to use the DR process to solve our problems, I have come to believe that until the behavioral problems are corrected, we will be unable to make constructive progress on the article content.
Finally, I would like to state that I am aware of the fact that ArbCom does not rule on content; however, if the committee accepts this case, and has any suggestions about how to settle the naming issue such as a binding RfC, a site-wide vote as happened for Liancourt Rocks, etc., input would be appreciated. The name has been one of the sticking points that keeps us from progressing on to actual article improvement, and so a lasting solution is highly desirable. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Qwyrxian (talk • contribs)
Statement by Magog the Ogre
Pardon me if I get any of this wrong... never filed an RFAr request before. Hopefully I don't miss anything important.
I entered the dispute through WP:AN3, a board which at times I frequent as a deciding admin. Since then, Senkaku Islands dispute has been subject to numerous locks [1], and Senkaku Islands has been on indefinite protection [2]. The page has gone through failed RFCs, a mediation, and requests at ANI to help, not to mention numerous pleas on my talk page surrounding the issue (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13).
At a few times, I may not have given the issue the proper consideration it was due (cf. 2, where I was a bit unnecessarily rude about it as well). Nevertheless, I have done what's in my power to try to further the resolution in a way amenable to all parties. Recently, I took the unorthodox step of placing Senkaku Islands dispute on mandatory WP:BRD watch - any party breaking BRD would be subject to a block. This was an unusual step, granted, but it was a last ditch effort on my part to come up with a solution short of indefinite full-protection and/or Arbcom intervention (oh, and it did have community support!).
Nevertheless, it has not worked. Since, it has been quite clear to me that:
- All attempts at dispute resolution will continue to fail, as parties have and will continue to talk right past each other.
- None of the players in the dispute has been acting poorly in an overt enough fashion that the community would support bans/blocks for any one deed, or even for behavior as a whole without an Arbcom ruling.
- Certain figures have been acting in ways that has inflamed rather than alleviated the dispute.
- The situation would be helped greatly and possibly solved altogether with the censure of non-helpful parties in a way which Arbcom can accomplish, but which the community at large cannot. "Cast out the scorner, and contention shall go out; yea, strife and reproach shall cease."
On the case of figures acting poorly: in the past, I have called out specifically two editors:
- User:Tenmei for his unnecessarily loquaciousness, which I believe has often been used (unintentionally) to cover up a case of WP:IDIDNTHEARTHAT. I also believe Tenmei exhibits a severe case of m:MPOV, and possibly a lack of necessary WP:COMPETENCE (it is hurtful, and it pains me to say, but I have no other explanation).
- I have also called out User:Bobthefish2 for what I believe to be a desire to do nothing but troll and cause controversy. At every step of the way, his actions have seemed tailored to cause more strife, not less. Examples can be provided should Arbcom accept this case.
- It is important to note that these are not the only editors I have seen problems from; these are simply the two I have dealt with the most, and most recently.
Finally, I would like to echo Qwyrxian's statement that Arbcom does not, and should not, rule directly on content (this is kind of important, in light of a careless comment I made which was copied and mailed to the Arbcom list, a comment which I was completely incorrect in making). However, some rules/guidelines for conduct and censure of the bad apples from Arbcom would be quite helpful. Magog the Ogre (talk) 12:26, 13 August 2011 (UTC)
- (Moved and redacted by clerk) @David Fuchs: I just want to say that they are based on user conduct. Magog the Ogre (talk) 22:25, 14 August 2011 (UTC)
Statement by John Smith's
It's a shame to see the matter go to arbitration, but I had a feeling that it would. Although I haven't withdrawn from the discussions on the relevant talk pages, I've been so baffled by some discussions or disheartened by the lack of ability to agree on almost anything that I have contributed less than I used to. There is a problem that clearly can't be resolved without either:
a) mass community input from uninvolved editors that reaches "inviolable consensus"; or
b) sanctions and/or decisions on particular users that could allow the remainder to make progress
We have tried to get outside views, but no editors are willing to stick around and help move things forward. Which is understandable, and Wikipedia can't force people to come along to resolve problems. I also think that we've also got to the point where if action isn't taken, tensions could rise and more bitter actions take place that would be unfortunate. Sometimes prevention is better than cure, so I hope that the Arbitration Committee looks at this as an opportunity to stop escalation and having to hand out more severe sanctions later. John Smith's (talk) 17:46, 13 August 2011 (UTC)
EDIT: To reiterate, I would say that the problems are largely down to user behaviour. John Smith's (talk) 21:55, 14 August 2011 (UTC)
Statement by Tenmei
Qwyrxian's open-ended request for help is a kind of trick question. It resists parsing. In our context of squandered opportunities, it is timely for ArbCom to acknowledge broader issues which are not made explicit.
- More awareness of a growing issue that is poisoning the very essence of collaborative editing that makes Wikipedia possible: real-world factions that vie for control over articles, turning them into polemical battlegrounds where surface civility is used to cover bias, tendentiousness and even harassment.
- Less timidity in addressing issues related to contents (POV warring, tag teams, academic dishonesty).
- Increased transparency in the dispute resolution process is needed.
These are not all my words, but I adopt them as if they were my own. That said, ArbCom should decline to endorse the framing which Qwyrxian presents.
Conventional dispute resolution tools are available, but we have seen these opportunities ignored, marginalized, thwarted, frustrated, etc. We have no good reason to hope for something better or different in this venue. --Tenmei (talk) 21:09, 14 August 2011 (UTC)
@ Qwyrxian -- are you unable or unwilling to re-frame and sharpen the focus of your statement in paragraphs and bullet points which are congruent with Coren's comment here? --Tenmei (talk) 16:09, 15 August 2011 (UTC)
@ SirFozzi and David Fuchs -- responding to requests, is it constructive to suggest that your ability to appreciate of the marriage of "content" and "conduct" may be better informed by two related concepts?
These concepts are illustrated in the diffs of Qwyrxian and Bobthefish2 in one resolved thread here. The instructive value of this thread was highlighted by a proximal suggestion:
- "...Let's just get the two pages locked so that they will move on ...." -- Bobthefish2 08:45, 27 January 2011
This is complicated, but not inconsistent with problems Coren proposes to address here? --Tenmei (talk) 19:15, 16 August 2011 (UTC)
Statement by Penwhale
A lot of the dispute resolution has not result in participation by parties. In addition, the fact that the romanized-name of both Senkaku and Diaoyu(tai) are often misspelled adds to the difficulty of using other sources to see which one is more commonly used. You can see the various attempts at using web search hits to determine the name being used more on the article talk page.
If this request is accepted, then just like it was in the Liancourt Rocks case, only editor conduct should be looked into. In addition, perhaps a community input can be requested by Arbitration Committee to seek broader input. - Penwhale | dance in the air and follow his steps 23:25, 13 August 2011 (UTC)
Statement by STSC
There are some "edit-warlords" constantly preventing any NPOV edit on the article; an intervention is needed to find a satisfactory solution. STSC (talk) 04:38, 15 August 2011 (UTC)
Statement by Lvhis
Eventually this case has been brought here. Took me for a while to be familiar with the procedure of ArbCom. I am still not sure if I have understood this procedure fully correctly. So please correct me if I am incorrect or inappropriate doing my part here.
I am a relative newer one involved in this topic since I did not touch these pages until February 21, 2011 [3] when I just came across that page. I think the substantial reason for such hardly resolvable dispute mainly due to that the dispute is tightly related to an international territory dispute like what happened in the case of the page Dokdo/Takeshima/Liancourt Rocks (or Islands). So I would like to echo Penwhale that this case is like Liancourt Rocks case. The fundamental problem that has caused this dispute being unresolvable so far is NPOV problem, like what is stated in the guideline WP:NCGN#Multiple local names "to avoid giving the impression of support for a particular national point of view", compromise should be reached between editors, and thereafter consensus can be reached. Unfortunately, certain users attitude (and conduct?) towards to NPOV policy and the particular guideline has made this kind of compromise or consensus almost impossible. (sorry, not yet finished and may add more later). --Lvhis (talk) 04:57, 15 August 2011 (UTC)
Improper conduct 1: Pushing a wrong concept like "a non-English name is the real Enlish name" in this disputed issue with Original Thought/Researches, even when several reliable sources have been provided that there is a real and pure English name originated from English language itself, to refuse to reach consensus not only for the naming issue, but also for editing certain part of the page (1, 2). The main aim of such improper conduct is POV pushing. Recently such improper conduct was led by user Qwyrxian.
Improper conduct 2: Double standards that made certain editting-war prevention effort ineffective or in vain. For instance, a unorthodox sanction was set by admin Magog the Ogre recently for the page Senkaku Islands dispute and worked quite well at beginning that some sort of consensus for editing some part had even been reached (3, 4, 5), but later this sanction became actually ineffective, not only by user Tenmei's violation (6) but also by user Qwyrxian's cooperative "revert" (7) and a "discussion" (8) which interrupted another ongoing discussion (9) obeying the sanction, rather than reporting this to admin Magog the Ogre. User Qwyrxian also made an excuse for user Tenmei (10). When user Tenmei came back from his "wiki pausing", he challenged the saction bolder and bolder (11), and eventually has made admin Magog the Ogre fully protected that page (12). The lesson here I think is no matter what kind of sanctions, or block, or ban will be enforced, the more important or key point here is how to enforce it. Unbalanced enforcement of rules will ruin any efforts of such sanctions, bans, etc.
User Qwyrxian is a newly elected admin. He has been involved in this dispute for quite a long time and in a very deep extent. Although he did not use his admin tool in this dispute after getting his adminship, the situation for the disputed page after his back from a recent short break of him seemed has been deteriorated. In his RfA I made a firm "Oppose" vote (Oppose #5) and expressed my worry and concern. Although thereafter I once ever ignited a hope that his election would improve him and help to solve this dispute (13, 14), now I have been totally disappointed. He is also the requester of this RfAr. I know I challenged an admin but I hope for the sake of Wikipedia and of resolving the hardly resolvable dispute, the improper conducts mentioned above can be reprimanded. --Lvhis (talk) 21:37, 15 August 2011 (UTC)
Statement by Zscout370
I forgot how I was asked to look into the article, but I was involved with trying to steer the discussion on the title of the article. I have brought up the title "Pinnacle Islands" because it was similar to the result of the Laincourt Rocks (an issue that I have dealt with in the capacity as an OTRS agent by answering emails about the subject). I have not blocked any users over the issue, but I knew my involvement could have been seen as a possible POV problem because of my involved with the Japanese on and off wiki (ja-3). I also did not sanction any user with regards to the article or provided any article protections. User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 05:30, 15 August 2011 (UTC)
Statement by Feezo
As the appointed mediator in the Senkaku Islands formal mediation case, I affirm the Mediation Committee supports arbitration regarding the Senkaku Islands. I am of the opinion that the problems which this case addresses are almost exclusively user conduct. As mediator, I have a duty to ensure that conduct within the closed mediation case remains privileged: to that end, I have deleted the case talk pages for at least the duration of this arbitration. This is unlikely to have any influence on these proceedings, as conduct within the case was substantially similar to conduct without; examples have already been provided. Feezo (send a signal | watch the sky) 18:30, 15 August 2011 (UTC)
Statement by Bobthefish2
Since this is just an initial statement, I will keep it short.
Tendentious editing is, by far, the most severe problem suffered by these pages. Almost every major discussion about content is paralyzed by this issue. Tenmei is, among all, the chief offender. He has a stubborn tendency of derailing debates and piling in tremendous amounts irrelevant and hard-to-parse arguments. Since this issue has already been described by other parties in an appropriate amount of detail, I’d leave it at that for now.
Despite Magog the Ogres and Qwyrxians’ complaints about civility, they’ve been party of substantially worse offenses recently. While I have had no problems with Magog in the past, he has recently mishandled a situation [4] – an allegation confirmed by another admin [5][6] – but refused to correct the matter. When asked for clarification, he said the matter was getting on his nerves [7] and then forcibly closed off the discussions to prevent more questions being asked [8]. Later, when asked another question about his handling of another situation, he refused to address the question and instead complained that the requesting party does nothing but troll [9].
Qwyrxian has often fancied himself as a neutral party and a civility crusader, but he has an unfortunate habit of WP:HOUNDing other people (such as myself). He has noted on an occasion that he held a personal bias against me and implied that he found content to be offensive partly because I was the author [10]. He is also a party to Magog’s recent inappropriate handling of issues and gamed the system in a very obvious manner.
That’s about all I would say for now. I will provide diffs, examples, and details in the next stage of the arbitration. --Bobthefish2 (talk) 02:11, 16 August 2011 (UTC)
Preliminary decisions
Arbitrators' opinion on hearing this matter (7/0/1/1)
- I could go either way on this. As stated, we avoid content rulings, but possibly what we could do is see who is preventing consensus from being reached and if they are acting in ways contrary to Wikipedia's norms and policies, remove them from the topic area. I could also see the area being placed under discretionary sanctions. If folks wouldn't mind, I'd like to see statements about how much of this dispute is conduct, and how much of the dispute is content. SirFozzie (talk) 15:37, 13 August 2011 (UTC)
- Recuse. I would think the various editors concerned would think this counted as sufficiently sticking my oar in already. --Elen of the Roads (talk) 22:25, 13 August 2011 (UTC)
- I echo SirFozzie's queries to the parties. I see that many dispute resolution methods have been tried, but if the underlying issues are not based on conduct then there's little we can really do. @Tenmei, I don't think single cases are the places to broaden or modify ArbCom's scope--that's something that should start with the community. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs(talk) 20:40, 14 August 2011 (UTC)
- Accept John Vandenberg (chat) 23:36, 14 August 2011 (UTC)
Awaiting statementsJclemens (talk) 23:46, 14 August 2011 (UTC)- Awaiting further statements, leaning toward acceptance and the expectation that this could be a relatively quick case. Newyorkbrad (talk) 01:17, 15 August 2011 (UTC)
- Accept. Newyorkbrad (talk) 18:34, 15 August 2011 (UTC)
- Accept Casliber (talk · contribs) 13:06, 15 August 2011 (UTC)
- Accept; this is a relatively simple case where it's likely consensus could be reached if everyone behaved and where Arbcom could help by making sure everybody does. — Coren (talk) 14:11, 15 August 2011 (UTC)
- Accept. PhilKnight (talk) 22:18, 15 August 2011 (UTC)
- Accept. –xenotalk 02:21, 16 August 2011 (UTC)
Temporary injunction (none)
Final decision (none yet)
All numbering based on /Proposed decision, where vote counts and comments are also available.
Principles
Findings of fact
Remedies
Note: All remedies that refer to a period of time, for example to a ban of X months or a revert parole of Y months, are to run concurrently unless otherwise stated.
Enforcement
Log of blocks, bans, and restrictions
Log any block, restriction, ban or extension under any remedy in this decision here. Minimum information includes name of administrator, date and time, what was done and the basis for doing it.