Arbitration enforcement action appeal by Momento
Consensus is that the appeal against the topic ban of Momento is declined. Sandstein 12:14, 12 February 2014 (UTC) |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
Appealing user
User imposing the sanction
Notification of User imposing sanction
Sanction being appealed
Statement by MomentoOn November 15th 2012 I was indefinitely topic-banned by The Blade of the Northern Lights, for “persistent battleground behaviour” but he provides no evidence or diffs to support that charge or any other. HISTORY In the second half of 2012 the Prem Rawat article resembled a battleground but I did not instigate it nor did I participate in it. On the contrary the main reason for that situation is the behaviour of one editor, PatW who has been warned for incivility and battleground behaviour nineteen times on his talk page and countless times on the PR talk pages.[4][5][6][7][8][9][10][11][12][13][14][15][16][17][18][19][20][21] In the three months before I was topic banned PatW was warned twice by The Blade of the Northern Lights for his incivility. On August 25th - ‘'everyone, especially you PatW, needs to cool it. I get that each "side" here is frustrated with the other, but it's not that hard to review what you're saying and remove the invective from your post before hitting the save button”.[22] And again on September 3rd on PatW's talk page - “(Pat) you have to be more tactful in your approach. I came very close to banning you from the topic, but I've decided I should give you at least one personal note to alert you to the fact that you're on my radar screen" but to no avail.[23] On the same day on the Prem Rawat talk page a new uninvolved editor had this to say - “I came to this page to see if the allegations being made about Memento's editing were true, but what strikes me as more egregious are the constant personal attacks by PatW and Surdas. Because of the hostility and unconstructive comments by those two, I'm unwilling to get involved at this point.[24] And on September 9th a new uninvolved editor had this to say - “PatW's incivility and accusations are somewhat beyond the pale. What he has done in the discussion…is attack”.[25]. “Pat I don't like being attacked, don't appreciate it at all…Attacking other editors out of hand whatever the history on that article will only bring you problems”.[26] And “Lets be clear (Pat). You have insulted me from the moment I stepped on the PR page…I removed myself from the PR article , but you continue to attack me as if the article and its problems are my fault…I won't continue to work on a page where I am consistently attacked".[27] On November 14th 2012 PatW expanded his battleground to Jimbo Wales talk page calling me an “unconscionable idiot” [28] Rather than take exception to PatW’s disgraceful attack on a very public page The Blade of the Northern Lights decided to ban me. And then, after telling Rumiton that it wouldn't be fair to topic ban him since Rumiton hadn't returned "to what got him banned” in April, TBOTNL banned him anyway despite seven months of non-battleground editing.[29] PatW described his banning as “I have managed to get myself 'blown up' by my own bomb”. Exactly, PatW has been hurling bombs for years. Despite being Topic Banned, PatW continued his war on Jimbo Wales talk page and on November 20th 2012 he was blocked "for deliberately attempting to link a Wikipedia editor to his real life identity". [30] SUMMARY: No evidence was presented that shows me involved in “battleground behaviour” or incivility. No evidence was presented that show me editing in a POV or inappropriate way. In fact, no evidence of any sort justifies this ban.
DAY 3 ROUND UP: Having failed to provide any evidence or diffs to justify the original sanction or deny this appeal, the focus has been shifted to ban me as an SPA despite no evidence of improper editing and clear evidence to the contrary..MOMENTO (talk) 22:14, 8 February 2014 (UTC) DAY 4 ROUND UP: We now have four editors who have decided to ignore the fact that we are at WP:AE to judge my appeal of a specific sanction (Indefinitely topic-banned by The Blade of the Northern Lights, for “persistent battleground behaviour”). Rather than accept the fact that no evidence or diffs have been provided to justify the original sanction and the ban should therefore be lifted these four editors have side tracked the appeal and turned it into an evidence free witch hunt. Two reasons for extending the ban are given, one that I was sanction in 2010 and therefore should be sanctioned again and the other is that I'm an SPA which means I should be sanctioned. No evidence is given for either.MOMENTO (talk) 04:27, 9 February 2014 (UTC) CONCLUSION: Since TBOTNL has not been able to present any evidence to justify “an indefinite topic ban for persistent battleground behaviour” my appeal is successful and my ban must now be lifted. If any editors would like to open their own AE against me, go right ahead but this AE is over.MOMENTO (talk) 09:03, 10 February 2014 (UTC) Statement by Blade of the Northern LightsMy wiki-syntax is a little rusty right now, so I apologize in advance if my diffs are a little tough to navigate. When ArbCom looked at the bans I implemented in the days immediately afterward, in my statement there I pointed to a series of edits made in the days immediately before the topic ban; they're linked at said talkpage, I'll put them here for convenience. I'm not especially familiar with Rawat, but it's extremely obvious that these edits were removing criticism from reliable sources and slanting the article in a very pro-Rawat direction. The first several threads of Talk:Prem Rawat/Archive 50 contain the discussion on the talkpage, and it makes it yet more obvious that this was the intent. If you click a few diffs ahead, you'll see DeCausa (talk · contribs) wholesale reverted said changes here and, later that day, Jimbo Wales (talk · contribs) re-added some more criticism which Momento et al. had moved and removed. In his capacity as an editor Jimbo has spent some time handling the Prem Rawat article, which is an extremely long-running problem area, and the day that I implemented all the topic bans there was a fairly brief thread at Jimbo's talkpage wherein he expressed serious concerns about the state of the article as it was at the time. As with Rumiton's ban, I discussed this with @Steven Zhang:, who has years of experience mediating at this article. He and I saw pretty much eye to eye on the intractability of the problem, and he too agreed the edits referenced above were obviously not neutral. And just as a quick note to any admins unfamiliar with the situation, the article at the time was under article probation and not the standard AE sanctions. When ArbCom looked at the situation they explicitly noted that what I did was in keeping with the sanctions in place, and several of them expressed their own concerns about the editing which was occurring before implementing the topic bans. The Blade of the Northern Lights (話して下さい) 16:14, 6 February 2014 (UTC)
Statement by oliveWhat is the issue here -asking that the sanction be reviewed or lifting the sanction? We should not use past sanctions to muddy the water on what the issue is here, but should deal with behaviour since the last sanction unless WP is indeed punitive. Disclaimer: I had very little prior knowledg of Prem Rawat or his organization but saw a comment on a talk page which led me to the article talk page where I then thought an uninvolved voice might be useful. These were my observations. My experience although short was that Momento was making good attempts to work collaboratively on the talk page. The battle ground sensibility and tone was not created by him but by two other editors. Blade's sanction was sweeping and did not delineate specific behaviours per specific editors. Jimbo Wale's addition was and should have been considered controversial, but he made that edit immediately editors were sanctioned so they could not discuss it with him, and he made the edit with out any discussion on the talk page, as I remember. What is happening here seems to me is that the lack of discrimination then, is necessary now. (Littleolive oil (talk) 20:55, 6 February 2014 (UTC))
Momento consolidated positive content, reducing positive weight, [33][34], the same way he trims and consolidates here. Much of what he removes here is positive to Rawat. [35].. Why is this being used to show he removes negative to Rawat content rather than that his editing has become more neutral in how he deals with both pejorative and positive to Rawat content.
I remember clearly your support of Will Beback in the past. Given Will's position in reference to Momento I don't see you input here as being unbiased I think you have a very good idea in asking Momento what he plans to do if the ban is lifted, and perhaps even better to suggest what he could be doing. I would contest these comments made by Mastcell: But so far this exercise seems to be simply another complaint about the technical and legalistic aspects of the original topic ban, This editor was sanctioned with out a diff. With out diffs editors do not know exactly what they done to deserve a sanction nor what they can do to improve. With out asking for diffs how does an editor get a review. No editor should be criticized for asking for a review and for asking for diffs showing wrong doing. And no admin should first neglect to use diffs, but if they do, they should willingly be able to show them when asked. Wikipedia is not punishment based, apparently. People need to know what they can do to improve. coupled with a continuation of combative battleground behavior In my time on the page battleground and abusive behaviour was demonstrated by other editors. How Momento remained as collected as he did in that environment is hard to understand. Further, asking for a review of a sanction is not battleground behaviour. Wikipedia extends this right to editors. So, suggesting there is continued battle ground behaviour when there was no proof of battle ground behaviour to begin with is a circular argument and unfair.(Littleolive oil (talk) 00:57, 8 February 2014 (UTC))
Statement by Rainer P.A little history: I am also a SPA and joined .enWP solely for the reason of protecting the Rawat articles from the doings of a small, but vociferous group of Rawat-“critics“, who have succeeded in creating a sustained false balance in the articels, that was cleverly designed to appear as innocent neutrality to in this regard uneducated editors and admins. Especially after that notorious Cade Metz attack there seemed to be a proneness to avoid any positive statement on Prem Rawat in WP, enforced by admins like Will Beback or Maelefique, who displayed a considerable bias toward a „critical“ view of the subject, as they perhaps innocently understood their stance. These editors systematically looked the other way, when Rawat-supporters were attacked by members of that group, who frequently boasted about their feats on their forum. Of course admins can not be expected to keep track of such goings and their dubious background, as that requires special proficiency that is acquired only through special interest, like Momento, Rumiton and I have, after observing very closely the subject's history. The frequent impunity, with which detractors were able to ride their innuendos and attacks in the face of those admins has created a tricky climate of wild-west lawlessness and self-defence that was certainly one condition for the development of a bad style in the interaction of involved editors, namely a "battleground" situation. It got better, after TBotNL had announced strict enforcement of WP rules, but then that „nuclear solution“ brought everything to a dead stop. It's like the gunfight at the O.K. Corral had been decided by dropping a bomb on the whole scene indisciminately. I am convinced that under a more conscientious supervision Momento would not have given reason to consider such drastic measures as an infinite topic ban, and I believe that in a future setting with strict and neutral enforcement of WP-rules Momento can make valuable contributions to the article, without tripping over the pitfalls of weak leadership. Putting the article under DS seems to be a step into that direction. He should be given a new chance. He may not be the only one who needs a chance to learn.--Rainer P. (talk) 23:44, 7 February 2014 (UTC) "Wikipedia is not censored". Maybe this high principle is sometimes hard to live up to. I feel it is being subtly eroded, when an editor gets banned, although he can not be convicted of misconduct. No person should be sacrificed on the altars of mediocrity.--Rainer P. (talk) 16:39, 10 February 2014 (UTC) Statement by Steven ZhangCommenting on this briefly as I was pinged by Blade. I think it's a really simple case here - Momento's editing over the last nine years has almost solely been regarding Prem Rawat. In my experience from my time mediating the Prem Rawat articles, I found some of the editors used tactics like stonewalling to prevent change, often being very unwilling to negotiate at all. Momento I believe has been one of these editors. He's had poor conduct in the past, and has been blocked several times due to this conduct. If he had an otherwise stellar record with edits to other articles then I'd recommend considering his topic ban. Looking at his editing since the topic ban being imposed, there's practically nothing other than talking about his topic ban, and has been keeping track of changes made to Rawat articles. In absence of redeeming conduct and past poor conduct, I recommend the topic ban remain in place, with it possible to be reconsidered if quality work is done elsewhere. Regards, Steven Zhang (talk) 02:07, 8 February 2014 (UTC) Statement by EatsShootsAndLeavesI'm here because of Momento's wholly inappropriate canvassing on ANI (which, by the way, really just shows how out-of-touch they are). A typical AE removal of restrictions request requires that the appelant a) show proof of positive editing since, and b) provide a suggestion of their "way forward" if future disputes arise. None of these exist in this appeal. What the appelant does seem to be suggestion is that 1.25+ years later, the original topic ban should not have been applied anyway. It's FAR to late to make that arguement - especially considering past attempts at appeal. The appelant appears to be hoping a) we forget things and b) those involved in the original topic ban are absent. From what I can see, the topic ban was in lieu of an obvious site ban/indef block due to their behaviour. They're FORTUNATE to have only recieved a topic ban. Because it's way to late to appeal the original topic ban, we have to revert to the "appeal on time served/good behaviour" which is wholly absent. As such, I find the original topic ban to be valid, and no need to accept an appeal at this time. I would however suggest that Momento be topic-banned from further appeals for AT LEAST 6 months. ES&L 14:03, 11 February 2014 (UTC) Discussion among uninvolved editors about the appeal by MomentoIn the message with which they imposed the ban, The Blade of the Northern Light did not link to evidence of misconduct by Momento that would justify the ban. I would ask them to submit such evidence now in order to allow us to review this appeal. As concerns the rest of Momento's statement, what other editors may or may not have done is entirely irrelevant here because editors are sanctioned based only on their own conduct, not because of the conduct of others (see, by analogy, WP:NOTTHEM). The conduct of others should therefore not be discussed further here. Sandstein 06:46, 6 February 2014 (UTC) You cannot understand the situation at Prem Rawat without discussing the actions of the editors.MOMENTO (talk) 09:45, 6 February 2014 (UTC)
Result of the appeal by Momento
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Wavyinfinity
Wavyinfinity is topic-banned from everything related to astrophyics or cosmology. Sandstein 13:43, 11 February 2014 (UTC) | ||
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. | ||
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Wavyinfinity
This editor is not here to build an encyclopedia WP:NOTHERE. See their userpage for their planned war on astrophysics etc. He, according to his edits, believes the big bang theory and black holes are pseudoscience [41] (29th November 2013) and he is pushing that in articles. He has made several article creations which clearly violate WP:FRINGE, and has continued to POV push despite being warned about discretionary sanctions. Fringe examples (in approximately reverse chronological order):
I think its quite clear that the editor has been pushing crank theories on wikipedia, despite warnings, and an indefinite topic ban is required considering the duration of the issues. IRWolfie- (talk) 17:32, 9 February 2014 (UTC)
Discussion concerning WavyinfinityStatements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by WavyinfinityStatement by vzaakUser is explicitly advocating a warfare mentality: "The War on Astrophysical Scientism: For those students who have resisted the conditioning of the thousands of astronomy professors a method for battling the dogma I have shown to be most effective is provided below. [...] We have a lot of un-brainwashing of the masses to do."[46] Also on the user's page are statements such as "The neutrino does not exist", "The Higgs Boson is political propaganda", and "Mathematical physicists are very dangerous". The page was deleted before and should be deleted again. vzaak 18:15, 9 February 2014 (UTC)
Statement by IRWolfie-@Sandstein: Considering their creation of clearly inappropriate fringe material in astrophysics topics like Stellar metamorphosis and their comments about particle physics, can this be extended to physics broadly? IRWolfie- (talk) 18:36, 9 February 2014 (UTC)
Statement by oliveWhile this request seems to have merit, I would like to make sure that a sanction is for actions that fall under Wikipedia policies and guidelines. Competence might be preferred, but unfortunately especially in some cases, incompetence is not a sanctionable offense. "Crank" theories are allowable if notable, so a sanction of whatever time period the sanctioning admin thinks necessary seems to be per the pushing of those theories and the battleground behaviour while trying to include those theories rather than writing about the theories themselves in an incompetent manner. This is perhaps a subtle but necessary clarification?(Littleolive oil (talk) 01:15, 10 February 2014 (UTC))
This is an AE which specifically asks for input from involved and uninvolved editors. I note your actions here and am on to other things.(Littleolive oil (talk) 15:21, 10 February 2014 (UTC))
Statement by MontanabwA read of Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/Pseudoscience#Final_decision indicates to me that we focus on the content first. While in this case, I happen to agree that yes, denial of the Big Bang Theory and the existence of the neutrino (etc.) IS indeed a WP:FRINGE belief, and yes WP:COMPETENCE is "required", nonetheless, caution is in order here. If someone has a blatent POV that they are pushing and it can be clearly identified as fringe, then of course that material need not be included and they just need to get over it. But sanctioning the person for their beliefs, however mistaken, may not be needed. A person's user page is evidence of a POV, but not necessarily evidence of their approach to editing, diffs of specific behavior are more at issue. The person's behavior needs to be evaluated separately and in view of their total participation on wikipedia; a simple "ban them from the topic just because they are interested in it" approach is seldom helpful and generally generates more heat than light. Obviously, a one-topic/article account is a near-automatic red flag, but this person has been around for several months and while I do not agree with his/her views, they seem to be engaging in mostly harmless-if-fringe free speech. Similarly, if the individual merely argues a non-mainstream viewpoint in an appropriate fashion but ultimately cannot express their POV without attacking others; then appropriate wiki-wide sanctions may be appropriate. (Occasional flareups of temper being understandable, particularly when WP:BAITed, though WP:ROPE applies as well) But a topic ban for having a POV is generally a poor solution and usually just leads to more people running to the teacher, crying, "I'm telling." (Offtopic content suppressed, Sandstein 21:54, 10 February 2014 (UTC)). Montanabw(talk) 17:28, 10 February 2014 (UTC) (Further offtopic content suppressed, Sandstein 21:54, 10 February 2014 (UTC)). @Sandstein, I am confused; you say that I cannot make statements without evidence, but when I present evidence, it's "suppressed," along with my original concerns. Yet the actions leading to the issues that I raised regarding a different editor's comments, and that editor's responses above, are not similarly suppressed. So do clarify. If links as diffs is all you need, then I shall supply them. If you wish to rachet down the heat, then also suppress the comments of the user who I addressed. I have no desire to be banned from discussing this topic, I seek guidance. Montanabw(talk) 02:35, 11 February 2014 (UTC) @IR Wolfie- and Sandstein, I happen to agree that the views of Wavyinfinity are very much WP:FRINGE. Just so there is no misunderstanding of that issue. It's the tone that's my concern. And indeed, I have never been involved (to my recollection, though correct me should I err) with any of the articles that gave rise tp the pseudoscience discretionary sanctions until today. Full disclosure: Wolfie and I have spatted over animal-assisted therapy article(s), but after some debate, I have acquiesced in having his edits/views on those articles stand per MEDRS until or unless I get the motivation to do more MEDRS editing on those articles. Montanabw(talk) 02:43, 11 February 2014 (UTC) @Mastcell, your statement is understood by me and I can accept your initial comments. That said, Sandstein's "warning" is inappropriate, as I have never edited in any of the articles I understand to have been part of the pseudoscience discretionary sanctions discussion. I still think he needs to strike his "warning" Montanabw(talk) 02:46, 11 February 2014 (UTC) Statement by (user name)Result concerning WavyinfinityThis section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.
Closing: Per the above discussion, Wavyinfinity is topic-banned from everything related to astrophyics or cosmology. Sandstein 13:43, 11 February 2014 (UTC) |
Mathsci
Mathsci confirms that they now understand the conditions of the ban, if there are any further violations talk page and email access should be revoked without need for further discussion. Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 05:26, 12 February 2014 (UTC) |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Mathsci
Wikipedia talk:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Race and intelligence#Request for clarification (October 2013) Sorry about that NE Ent 23:26, 10 February 2014 (UTC)
Discussion concerning MathsciStatements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by MathsciStatement by DeltahedronHere is what I wrote at Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard#Banned_user_suggesting_edits
I then added
It seems to me that Mathsci is intent on continuing the fight he was trying to pick with me last April. I refuse to play these games. Deltahedron (talk) 22:48, 9 February 2014 (UTC)
Statement by uninvolved A Quest for KnowledgeThis is a clear and obvious violation of the site ban. At a bare minimum, I would suggest that an account block (including talk page access and e-mail access) and a reset of repeals (originally six months) to the date that this request is closed is in order. A Quest For Knowledge (talk) 23:54, 10 February 2014 (UTC) Statement by (username)Result concerning MathsciThis section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.
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ArtifexMayhem
Submitter Prmct has been conventionally blocked as a sock by User:NuclearWarfare. No other action taken. EdJohnston (talk) 16:50, 12 February 2014 (UTC) |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
Request concerning ArtifexMayhem
ArtifexMayhem is tag-teaming with Volunteer Marek to replace the article Nations and intelligence with a redirect to another article. I have tried to resolve the issues with this article on the talk page, but both of them are reverting without participating in the discussion. At present there is no consensus to turn the article into a redirect, and I would like to improve the article's sourcing, but their restoring the redirect in rapid succession makes it impossible for me to edit the article. I've looked through the edit histories of Nations and Intelligence and the Human Intelligence template, and ArtifexMayhem has never participated in either before his reverts today. I'm reporting ArtifexMayhem because his conduct is the worse problem, but be aware Volunteer Marek has been warned of the discretionary sanctions also: [63] This evidence presented against ArtifexMayhem in an arbitration case last year suggests that almost all of his edits to articles related to race have been blanking or reverts, and he usually does not discuss them on the talk pages. One example given there is that on the article that Nations and Intelligence now redirects to, all of ArtifexMayhem's edits have been reverts. [64] What he's doing now seems to be a continuation of the same behavior, and seems to be exactly what the tag-teaming ruling in the race and intelligence case was intended to prevent. Before someone asks, please be aware that I'm not a new user. I suggest admins read the discussion here if they wish to understand why I do not believe it's necessary to disclose my former account. I also encourage admins to examine the textbook I have been citing at Google books, if they wish to examine ArtifexMayhem's claims about WP:FRINGE in his edit summaries.
Discussion concerning ArtifexMayhemStatements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by ArtifexMayhemI've supported redirecting that article for more than a year[66] due to its WP:FRINGE nature. So it's not really surprising that I agree with Aprock[67] and Volunteer Marek[68] (especially considering so of Prmct's pov pushing edits[69]).
— ArtifexMayhem (talk) 21:33, 11 February 2014 (UTC) Statement by AprockI don't follow off wiki behavior, so I wasn't aware that Captain Occam had been discussing the topic area with The Devil's Advocate. If that is in fact true, it may be that The Devil's Advocate's disruptive edits are a case of proxy editing for a site banned user. aprock (talk) 21:42, 11 February 2014 (UTC) Statement by The Devil's AdvocateI feel NuclearWarfare's action here is premature. Concerns about previous accounts should be given more consideration and not be met with an "editing generally favors bad POV so bad editor" argument. From what I have seen, this editor has not even been pushing a POV, but simply objecting to the POV-pushing by other editors. The content dispute noted here, over the Nations and Intelligence article, is one where the editing by Prmct was geared towards accommodating concerns about the article not sufficiently representing more mainstream scholarship on the subject. One of the only editors to give a cogent reason essentially argued that there is sufficient basis for an article but that it should incorporate more mainstream views. Wanting to improve an article on a noteworthy subject and objecting to it being repeatedly blanked while you are in the process of doing that is not problematic in itself.--The Devil's Advocate tlk. cntrb. 01:34, 11 February 2014 (UTC) Statement by IP@NW If that block was an AE block, you need to specify that it was. Presuming it was not, it would still be helpful to say so since the block originated from the AE page. Someone reviewing the block may think it was an AE action. 204.101.237.139 (talk) 18:18, 11 February 2014 (UTC)
Statement by (username)Result concerning ArtifexMayhemThis section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.
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Appeal for arbitration enforcement action by Khabboos
Incomplete request, see subsequent request below. Sandstein 18:40, 13 February 2014 (UTC) |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
I made an arbitration request at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case#Hinduism_in_Pakistan and have been directed here. Please rule that that sentence I inserted can be in that article (or tell me where to appeal).—Khabboos (talk) 16:30, 12 February 2014 (UTC)
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Volunteer Marek
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Request concerning Volunteer Marek
- User who is submitting this request for enforcement
- walkeetalkee 12:58, 13 February 2014 (UTC)
- User against whom enforcement is requested
- Volunteer Marek (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
- Sanction or remedy to be enforced
- Wikipedia:DIGWUREN#Discretionary sanctions: "Any uninvolved administrator may, on his or her own discretion, impose sanctions on any editor working in the area of conflict (defined as articles which relate to Eastern Europe, broadly interpreted) if, despite being warned, that editor repeatedly or seriously fails to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behavior, or any normal editorial process."
- Volunteer Marek is subject to those sanctions and is placed officially on them by Thatcher (talk · contribs).
- Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
- 12 February 2014 "in your usual slimy way", "Stop being daft."
- 12 February 2014 "Luke, you seem to have a serious problem with reading comprehension and a propensity to respond to figments of your imagination rather than the actual situation. At the same time you appear to be easy to influence, apparently because you're lazy and not particularly... astute." "You are imagining things or you're deliberately misrepresenting things." "crying "notcensored!" like some twelve year old who doesn't get his way and calls his mommy a fascist, want to enable the harassment and humiliation"
- 12 February 2014 "your little agitation games" "behaving like the stereotype of an immature adolescent internet bully who revels in humiliating others for the fun of it and gets their kicks by exercising petty power in petty fashion. Oh, wait a minute, you don't even have any power, you're not even an admin, just another drama board groupie wasting people's time. Find better places to hang out than ANI"
- 12 February 2014 "an anonymous IP coward with obvious mental problems"
- 12 February 2014 "Look you moron" "I really hope you're just sitting there lying because it's hard to believe that anyone would be that stupid."
- 12 February 2014 "Worse you have a twisted sense of morality" "Do you have some special dispensation from God, the United Nations, or your local knitting club which says that "it's okay for Lukeno94 to act like an asshole on Wikipedia but no one is ever allowed to criticize him for it, because gosh darn it that's "harassment""? No? Then quit it with the double standards" "so stupid it hurts" "Again, you're full of shit and you're lying."
- 12 February 2014 "Is it really too much to ask that people actually bother thinking and checking before they come here and talk nonsense?"
- 12 February 2014 "you're making yourself look more and more ridiculous" "Calling your behavior "slimy" is putting it very very very mildly. I have never outed, abused, harassed ANYONE you little twerp!"
- Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required)
- Warned on AE, 12 May 2011 by EdJohnston (talk · contribs) for incivility
- Admonished on 7 June 2012 Kudpung (talk · contribs) for incivility
- Blocked on 19 July 2012 by DangerousPanda (talk · contribs) for personal attacks/harassment
- Warned on 11 December 2013 by Estlandia (talk · contribs) for personal attacks
Note: This list is very incomplete: it is hard to find warnings against him because he deletes them immediately.
- Additional comments by editor filing complaint
This user was with the EEML so this thread will be spammed by supporters and attacks against the messenger as always. These insults comes in response to a strongly founded but not uncontroversial diatribe that kept appearing on my watchlist [75]. The essay laid out how Volunteer Marek was almost enjoying a carte blanche in the Eastern European topic area, mentioning over a dozen cases of reports where Piotrus tried to save him from consequences, against which Volunteer Marek now lashes out fiercely, unsurprisingly. I know that in this topic area you can't criticize without the messengers being attacked in defense. Recently that a user got topic-banned for 6 uncivil or personal attacks with less history in that regard than Volunteer Marek fills me with the hope that this can be ended better very late than never.
- This case is completely and directly related to the Rfa statement over which additionally Volunteer Marek edit-warred three times. This Rfa statement is almost completely about the Eastern European topic and the Eastern European mailing list. On a scale of 1-10 of relatedness, it would score an 11. I have disregarded the topic area for several months but I remember another warning for Volunteer Marek, although I found the closing admin's decision (Sandstein) regarding him too weak.[76] A little later I discovered how Volunteer's treatment was standardized in the EE topic area, for example in regards to User:Skäpperöd, who then seems to have left Wikipedia in reaction: "you seem to be trying to obfuscate and confuse the issue on purpose" or "No, these are just pretext you've invented to remove a source you don't like." "just to watch you come up with yet another sneaky way of dodging that question" "based on nothing but your own personal feelings" "you sneaked that in" "that pretty much suggests that you are not engaging this discussion in good faith", "bullshit ... stop twisting words and trying to manipulate the conversation", "him manipulating the wording" "to skew the reader to his POV" "attempt to allow him to invent even more irrelevant excuses" "he's basically relying on your ignorance of this chunk of history to get away with it" "is just making up bullshit excuses per IDONTLIKEIT". The preceding Diffs are from last year where I was paying greater attention but someone with more time than me can look for more and they will find that accusations of bad intentions, personal attacks and incivility was and is a must for him. The current charges are completely related to the Eastern European topic are.--walkeetalkee 14:19, 13 February 2014 (UTC)
- Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested
- Volunteer Marek notified: [77]
Discussion concerning Volunteer Marek
Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.
Statement by Volunteer Marek
And this has nothing to do with the DIGWUREN case. It's just another battleground account, filing another spurious request on a flimsy pretext.Volunteer Marek (talk) 13:07, 13 February 2014 (UTC)
To be more precise, these comments were made in response to completely unfounded accusations (only "implied" at first, then made explicit) by another user that I was planning or actually capable or possibly engaged in writing Encyclopedia Dramatica attack pieces on other users. Someone accuses you of that, you'd get mad too. Either way, they were made in response to these particular accusations, and not in relation with anything to do with DIGWUREN (and please take a look at filer's editing history. Shows up out of nowhere, knows all the ins and outs, etc.) Volunteer Marek (talk) 13:18, 13 February 2014 (UTC)
Statement by Lukeno94
- Whilst there is little doubt that Marek should've been blocked for his actions in that thread, I'm not seeing how they fall under the ARBEE case, and thus, by extension, how AE is the place to request the block. Lukeno94 (tell Luke off here) 13:14, 13 February 2014 (UTC)
- I'm certainly not going to argue against a block for Marek, but, as is evidenced by a reasonable post on my talkpage, I don't think you need to place an interaction between Marek and myself (regardless of if it was 1-way or 2-way), Sandstein, so please don't. Lukeno94 (tell Luke off here) 23:21, 13 February 2014 (UTC)
Statement by Giano
I am completely and happily uninvolved with the EEML and any of its members. However, they have been under a lot of provocation lately. Piotrus had a perfect right to attempt to become an admin again; I'm less sure that an anon IP had the right to influence that attempt. That this has led to resentment and anger is understandable. I don't see Marek being totally abusive - I see some understandable anger and resentment. I don't see the point in penalising Marek, exasperation is not a crime in anyone's book. Blocking Marek for this will just lead to more festering resentment and animosity - who will that help? It's hardly an occurrence that's likely to be repeated. Giano 15:00, 13 February 2014 (UTC)
Statement by The Devil's Advocate
To me it seems that this matter falls within the scope of the discretionary sanctions. It is not as though this was some random dispute about some random people with some sort of connection to the Eastern European topic area. At the center of the ANI case was the repeated removal of evidence compiled against Piotrus showing that editor's misconduct with regards to Eastern European topics. Marek was apparently one of the people engaged in such removal and was connected to some of the misconduct in question. How Marek behaved during a noticeboard discussion about misconduct directly concerning the Eastern European topic area seems to fall within the bounds of the discretionary sanctions. Even if one were to argue that the link is too tenuous it does not mean that no action can be taken as any conduct issue raised here can be acted upon even if not through the discretionary sanctions. It would just be a normal administrative action subject to normal administrative review procedures.--The Devil's Advocate tlk. cntrb. 00:22, 14 February 2014 (UTC)
Result concerning Volunteer Marek
This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.
- @Walkee: How does this relate to Eastern Europe - which is the area the sanctions are authorised for? Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 13:23, 13 February 2014 (UTC)
- The link between the thread in question and the Eastern Europe discretionary sanctions is very tenuous bordering on non-existent so I don't see that AE can do anything here. Given this it looks like the issue has been dealt with. Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 13:59, 13 February 2014 (UTC)
- I also strongly disagree with Sandstein on this one. My opinion is that if the Committee intended the discretionary sanctions to apply to all editors who edit that topic area (or who were involved in the case) they would have said that rather than restricting it to articles. Having re-read it I can see where you're coming from but I disagree with your interpretation. On sanctioning, given this and this I don't feel that blocking would be appropriate anymore however if another admin believes an interaction ban is necessary then AN (sort of a case request) would be the place to go. Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 07:35, 14 February 2014 (UTC)
- The link between the thread in question and the Eastern Europe discretionary sanctions is very tenuous bordering on non-existent so I don't see that AE can do anything here. Given this it looks like the issue has been dealt with. Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 13:59, 13 February 2014 (UTC)
- I agree that the connection to Eastern European articles is practically non-existent, but while we're at it, I would support any form of censure for any editors who had reduced that discussion to a level this unseemly. This is toxic and it's only a matter of time before it does spill over to areas that we're allowed to police under the harsher decorum regime. --Joy [shallot] (talk) 16:55, 13 February 2014 (UTC)
- I think that AE has jurisdiction here. The ANI thread in which these edits were made is a result of long-term feuds and animosities dating back to the WP:EEML arbitration case. This is a sufficient link to the Eastern Europe topic area. Discretionary sanctions were introduced in that case, in part, precisely to allow administrators to stop this kind of long-term battleground conduct. In addition, the relevant remedy, WP:ARBEE#Standard discretionary sanctions, says that "Articles which relate to Eastern Europe, broadly interpreted, are placed under discretionary sanctions. Any uninvolved administrator may levy restrictions as an arbitration enforcement action on users editing in this topic area, after an initial warning." The wording of this remedy suggests that it is important that the editor at issue is actively editing in this topic area (which applies to Volunteer Marek, see their article contributions), and that the degree to which the misconduct is related to Eastern Europe is not a principal concern. WP:AC/DS#Authorization says something similar.
On the merits, this report contains evidence of inexcusable repeated and severe violations of WP:NPA and WP:CIVIL, which are important policies. Volunteer Marek's confrontative response to this complaint illustrates that only a substantial sanction is likely to have any preventative effect. It must also be taken into account that Volunteer Marek has a lengthy block record for similar misconduct. I am of a mind to impose a one-month block and an interaction ban with respect to the users attacked by Volunteer Marek in this case. Sandstein 18:30, 13 February 2014 (UTC)
- I strongly disagree with Sandstein; it would be improper to extend the DS for the topic area of Eastern Europe to the RfA of an editor who happens to edit there. --Guerillero | My Talk 23:48, 13 February 2014 (UTC)
AcidSnow
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Request concerning AcidSnow
- User who is submitting this request for enforcement
- Khabboos (talk) 17:13, 13 February 2014 (UTC)
- User against whom enforcement is requested
- AcidSnow (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
- Sanction or remedy to be enforced
- English wikipedia Ban
Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Hinduism_in_Pakistan#Persecution, Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case#Hinduism_in_Pakistan
- Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
- 2 February 2014 The sentence I added says the exact same thing as the newspaper article and so it was wrong to revert my edit
- Date Explanation
- Date Explanation
- Date Explanation
- Date Explanation
- Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required)
- Warned on 30 January 2014 by Khabboos (talk · contribs)
- Warned on 2 February 2014 by SMS (talk · contribs)
- Warned on 9 February 2014 by Joshua Jonathan (talk · contribs)
- Warned on 2 February 2014 by MediationBot (talk · contribs)
- Warned on 9 February 2014 by Khabboos (talk · contribs)
- Additional comments by editor filing complaint
- User:AcidSnow has also been stalking me and reverting my edits and was warned about it - please see User_talk:AcidSnow#Stalking
- Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested
- https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:AcidSnow&diff=595323435&oldid=595153557
Discussion concerning AcidSnow
Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.
Statement by AcidSnow
You have got to be kidding me. You realize that I am not the only one reverting your edits, as several other users have already done so? The ones I have reverted were either Original research, POV, misrepresenting of sources, using non reliable sources, lying about "sources", etc. Many of these were also more than one! Not just those, but this "dispute' you keep forumshoping about is a waste of time. I am not the only one that has told you that you are misrepresenting the sources provide nor was I "wrong" for doing so! As for the "stalking" (which I am not exactly doing exactly) I am justified as you wont stop your disruptive editing. I am not the only one that agrees as does Joshua Jonathan. As for people you have listed me to stop, NONE of them have said such a thing! If anyone of the admin want to see the ones I have reverted and the "discussion"please see the original discussion at ANI that he has refused to discuss his continues inappropriate behavior. As you can all see he would decided rather to see me banned than discuss anything! AcidSnow (talk) 17:47, 13 February 2014 (UTC)
- EDIT: Did you read anything I and other editors told you? It looks like you didn't as I and other editors have told you it has NOTHING to do with persecution/hate crime! Also, why wont you discuss anything? AcidSnow (talk) 18:09, 13 February 2014 (UTC)
- EDIT 2: Wow, now instead of answering the questions I have just asked, you have gone out and bashed my English. As for my spelling of "stalking" it was an accident I made only once. You should use the word "spelled" or "spelt" and not "spells" since this only happened once not numerous times. AcidSnow (talk) 18:36, 13 February 2014 (UTC)
- Sandstein, I tried to discuss this with him and so have other editors, but he does not bother with it and denies the existence of the discussion. AcidSnow (talk) 18:56, 13 February 2014 (UTC)
Statement by (Khabboos)
I wrote that, 'In 2005, a mob ransacked a temple in Nowshera' and added this reference: "Mob ransacks temple in Nowshera". http://www.dawn.com/news/145745/mob-ransacks-temple-in-nowshera. DAWN MEDIA GROUP. June 30, 2005. Retrieved 29 January 2014. {{cite web}}
: External link in
(help), but you reverted it. Reverting a properly referenced sentence is wrong! User:AcidSnow's english is also poor and so, editing the english wikipedia may not be the best thing to allow him to do - he doesn't even know the spelling of stalking, he spells it as stacking (he had typed that on the request for mediation page, but that page is deleted now)
|website=
Unfair comments made about me by Callanecc
I am not engaged in an edit war. I had a look at the article on Hinduism in Pakistan as a result of complaints at ANI by AcidSnow that Khabboos was posting fake citations (see Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive828#User:Khabboos.) Where there are issues I have explained them on the article talk page. I also raised the issue of the lack of citations for claims about the Taliban on User talk:Khabboos#Taliban and alleged persecution of Hindus in Pakistan.
When parties to a dispute (AcidSnow and Khabboos) discuss issues in places like ANI, and various other forums (Khabboos has raised this in quite a few), then they should expect uninvolved editors to take a look at what they are doing. I am one of those uninvolved editors taking a fresh look.--Toddy1 (talk) 08:52, 14 February 2014 (UTC)
Result concerning AcidSnow
This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.
This is not actionable as submitted. As explained in a section above, we are not allowed to decide content issues such as whether the text at issue should be in the article or not. This must be resolved via the process described in WP:DR. We can only take action if one of you has acted in a way that violates our conduct rules, such as by edit-warring. In addition, imposing discretionary sanctions requires a prior warning with the contents prescribed in WP:AC/DS#Warnings, which doesn't seem to have happened.
That said, the history of Hinduism in Pakistan does reflect an edit war between AcidSnow and Khabboos. I think that we can close this with a discretionary sanctions warning to both, and advice to read up on policies such as WP:EW and WP:DR. Sandstein 18:39, 13 February 2014 (UTC)
- I agree that it's not actionable at the moment (and doesn't look like it will be given what I've had a look at). I also agree that we should close with a DS notice and advice on edit warring to AcidSnow, Khabboos and Toddy1 as they have also engaged in the edit war. Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 07:43, 14 February 2014 (UTC)