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:''The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this page.'' |
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The result was '''delete'''. The existing article history needs to be deleted;I notice Ravensfire's rewrite still has much of the content marked, correctly, as cite needed--and it's negative material about a LP. No objection at all for Ravensfire or some other neutral established editor to reinsert a sourced article. '''[[User:DGG| DGG]]''' ([[User talk:DGG| talk ]]) 02:25, 21 March 2012 (UTC) |
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===[[Samanta Institute of Science and Technology]]=== |
===[[Samanta Institute of Science and Technology]]=== |
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:{{la|Samanta Institute of Science and Technology}} – (<includeonly>[[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Samanta Institute of Science and Technology|View AfD]]</includeonly><noinclude>[[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Log/2012 March 12#{{anchorencode:Samanta Institute of Science and Technology}}|View log]]</noinclude>) |
:{{la|Samanta Institute of Science and Technology}} – (<includeonly>[[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Samanta Institute of Science and Technology|View AfD]]</includeonly><noinclude>[[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Log/2012 March 12#{{anchorencode:Samanta Institute of Science and Technology}}|View log]]</noinclude>) |
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:<small class="delsort-notice">Note: This debate has been included in the [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Deletion sorting/Wisconsin|list of Wisconsin-related deletion discussions]]. <!--Template:Deletion sorting--></small> |
:<small class="delsort-notice">Note: This debate has been included in the [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Deletion sorting/Wisconsin|list of Wisconsin-related deletion discussions]]. <!--Template:Deletion sorting--></small> |
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:<small class="delsort-notice">Note: This debate has been included in the [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Deletion sorting/India|list of India-related deletion discussions]]. <span style='font:1.0em "Apple Garamond","Adobe Garamond Pro",Garamond,serif;color:#369;'>[[User:DoriSmith|Dori]] ☾[[User talk:DoriSmith|Talk]] ⁘ [[Special:Contributions/DoriSmith|Contribs]]☽</span> 05:40, 29 February 2012 (UTC)<!--Template:Deletion sorting--></small> |
:<small class="delsort-notice">Note: This debate has been included in the [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Deletion sorting/India|list of India-related deletion discussions]]. <span style='font:1.0em "Apple Garamond","Adobe Garamond Pro",Garamond,serif;color:#369;'>[[User:DoriSmith|Dori]] ☾[[User talk:DoriSmith|Talk]] ⁘ [[Special:Contributions/DoriSmith|Contribs]]☽</span> 05:40, 29 February 2012 (UTC)<!--Template:Deletion sorting--></small> |
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*<s>'''Weak Delete'''</s> The article as it exist now is not encyclopedic in tone at all. I am familiar with hearing news reports on [[:Template:Green Bay TV|Green Bay, Wisconsin television stations]]. So it has been discussed in local media, as evidenced by (unwikilinked) [[WSAW-TV]]'s citations from the television affiliates in the Wausau television (the other local television market). The group is extremely controversial so I'm not surprised to see an article like this pop up from 2 opposing SPAs. Words like "allegations, conspiracies, and cults" have been thrown around about the group. In summary, the article isn't worth saving as it is right now but I think that there are reliable sources to make an article. I'm not going to spend time on it. No prejudice against someone creating an article later but only if written up to Wikipedia standards. '''< |
*<s>'''Weak Delete'''</s> The article as it exist now is not encyclopedic in tone at all. I am familiar with hearing news reports on [[:Template:Green Bay TV|Green Bay, Wisconsin television stations]]. So it has been discussed in local media, as evidenced by (unwikilinked) [[WSAW-TV]]'s citations from the television affiliates in the Wausau television (the other local television market). The group is extremely controversial so I'm not surprised to see an article like this pop up from 2 opposing SPAs. Words like "allegations, conspiracies, and cults" have been thrown around about the group. In summary, the article isn't worth saving as it is right now but I think that there are reliable sources to make an article. I'm not going to spend time on it. No prejudice against someone creating an article later but only if written up to Wikipedia standards. '''[[User:Royalbroil|<span style="color:#000000;">Royal</span>]][[User talk:Royalbroil|<span style="color:#FFCC00;">broil</span>]]''' 04:00, 2 March 2012 (UTC) |
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:*'''Keep''' after seeing Ravensfire's rewrite, I am satisfied that the article meets GNG. There is enough verifiable content from reliable sources on this very controversial group. '''< |
:*'''Keep''' after seeing Ravensfire's rewrite, I am satisfied that the article meets GNG. There is enough verifiable content from reliable sources on this very controversial group. '''[[User:Royalbroil|<span style="color:#000000;">Royal</span>]][[User talk:Royalbroil|<span style="color:#FFCC00;">broil</span>]]''' 13:16, 3 March 2012 (UTC) |
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* '''Comment''' {{diff|Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents|479781762|479779961|This is possibly worth noting}}. <span style='font:1.0em "Apple Garamond","Adobe Garamond Pro",Garamond,serif;color:#369;'>[[User:DoriSmith|Dori]] ☾[[User talk:DoriSmith|Talk]] ⁘ [[Special:Contributions/DoriSmith|Contribs]]☽</span> 07:09, 2 March 2012 (UTC) |
* '''Comment''' {{diff|Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents|479781762|479779961|This is possibly worth noting}}. <span style='font:1.0em "Apple Garamond","Adobe Garamond Pro",Garamond,serif;color:#369;'>[[User:DoriSmith|Dori]] ☾[[User talk:DoriSmith|Talk]] ⁘ [[Special:Contributions/DoriSmith|Contribs]]☽</span> 07:09, 2 March 2012 (UTC) |
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*'''Weak keep''' GNews search for "Samanta ''Roy'' Institute of Science and Technology" (with quotation marks) gives back six pages of results. I haven't been through them all (don't have time at present), but there could well be a pass of the [[WP:GNG]] in there. Running the same search through GBooks provides several legal documents as well. However, the whole article would need rewriting from scratch if kept. [[User:Yunshui|Yunshui]] '''[[User talk:Yunshui|雲]]‍[[Special:Contributions/Yunshui|水]]''' 15:00, 2 March 2012 (UTC) |
*'''Weak keep''' GNews search for "Samanta ''Roy'' Institute of Science and Technology" (with quotation marks) gives back six pages of results. I haven't been through them all (don't have time at present), but there could well be a pass of the [[WP:GNG]] in there. Running the same search through GBooks provides several legal documents as well. However, the whole article would need rewriting from scratch if kept. [[User:Yunshui|Yunshui]] '''[[User talk:Yunshui|雲]]‍[[Special:Contributions/Yunshui|水]]''' 15:00, 2 March 2012 (UTC) |
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::There are also [http://www.religionnewsblog.com/tag/samanta-roy-institute-of-science-and-technology a number of articles] at ReligionNewsBlog (which, despite the URL, is a news aggregator). [[User:Yunshui|Yunshui]] '''[[User talk:Yunshui|雲]]‍[[Special:Contributions/Yunshui|水]]''' 15:04, 2 March 2012 (UTC) |
::There are also [http://www.religionnewsblog.com/tag/samanta-roy-institute-of-science-and-technology a number of articles] at ReligionNewsBlog (which, despite the URL, is a news aggregator). [[User:Yunshui|Yunshui]] '''[[User talk:Yunshui|雲]]‍[[Special:Contributions/Yunshui|水]]''' 15:04, 2 March 2012 (UTC) |
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*<s>'''Weak Delete''' Couldn't find any really strong sources for this and the current article is an absolute mess, full of unsourced speculation mixed with badly sourced junk and the occasional decently sourced minor nugget. <b |
*<s>'''Weak Delete''' Couldn't find any really strong sources for this and the current article is an absolute mess, full of unsourced speculation mixed with badly sourced junk and the occasional decently sourced minor nugget. [[User:Ravensfire|<b style="color:darkred;">Ravensfire</b>]] ([[User talk:Ravensfire|<span style="color:black;">talk</span>]]) 16:07, 2 March 2012 (UTC)</s> |
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::I've just gone through the article pulling out unreliable sources, POV commentary and unsourced negative comments towards BLP's. [[WP:RS]] is a policy that must be enforced, even for articles going through an AFD. Attempts to re-add the information without adequate sourcing will be reverted. <b |
::I've just gone through the article pulling out unreliable sources, POV commentary and unsourced negative comments towards BLP's. [[WP:RS]] is a policy that must be enforced, even for articles going through an AFD. Attempts to re-add the information without adequate sourcing will be reverted. [[User:Ravensfire|<b style="color:darkred;">Ravensfire</b>]] ([[User talk:Ravensfire|<span style="color:black;">talk</span>]]) 16:33, 2 March 2012 (UTC) |
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*'''Weak Keep''' I've been doing some more searches and I think there's enough out there to meet the notability requirements. There's a collection of articles about the group [http://www.rickross.com/groups/rama_behera.html from rickross.com], just realize there is a POV to [[Rick Ross]]. The bankruptcy mentioned in the article is under a totally different name, Yehud-Monosson USA, Inc., which turned up some more tidbits. Royal's comment is very on point though - this group has a fair amount of local drama around it. It seems to have been around for a while and while unfortunate for the group, some of their recent filings in the bankruptcy case are getting some wider exposure. <b |
*'''Weak Keep''' I've been doing some more searches and I think there's enough out there to meet the notability requirements. There's a collection of articles about the group [http://www.rickross.com/groups/rama_behera.html from rickross.com], just realize there is a POV to [[Rick Ross]]. The bankruptcy mentioned in the article is under a totally different name, Yehud-Monosson USA, Inc., which turned up some more tidbits. Royal's comment is very on point though - this group has a fair amount of local drama around it. It seems to have been around for a while and while unfortunate for the group, some of their recent filings in the bankruptcy case are getting some wider exposure. [[User:Ravensfire|<b style="color:darkred;">Ravensfire</b>]] ([[User talk:Ravensfire|<span style="color:black;">talk</span>]]) 17:29, 2 March 2012 (UTC) |
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*'''Delete''' for the reasons suggested by [[WP:TNT]]. If Ravensfire and Yunshui want to write a decent article about it, I have no complaints, but the current content and all its history are too far gone. Let's say that they write a decent article tomorrow — they'll still have to start over 100%, so the current content won't help at all. [[User:Nyttend backup|Nyttend backup]] ([[User talk:Nyttend backup|talk]]) 05:06, 3 March 2012 (UTC) |
*'''Delete''' for the reasons suggested by [[WP:TNT]]. If Ravensfire and Yunshui want to write a decent article about it, I have no complaints, but the current content and all its history are too far gone. Let's say that they write a decent article tomorrow — they'll still have to start over 100%, so the current content won't help at all. [[User:Nyttend backup|Nyttend backup]] ([[User talk:Nyttend backup|talk]]) 05:06, 3 March 2012 (UTC) |
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*'''Comment''' Interestingly enough, here is an article from Russia Today talking about what it is even like to grow up and go to school in that town. It isn't surprising there is so much drama. The human rights issues in Shawano, WI are finally going international, and its about time. Maybe we can really get this wheel spinning and bring some justice to that community. It has been too long in coming already. [http://rt.com/usa/news/native-language-menominee-wisconsin-721/ Schoolgirl banned from playing basketball for speaking Native American language] <small><span class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Kerev HaEmet|Kerev HaEmet]] ([[User talk:Kerev HaEmet|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Kerev HaEmet|contribs]]) 05:35, 3 March 2012 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
*'''Comment''' Interestingly enough, here is an article from Russia Today talking about what it is even like to grow up and go to school in that town. It isn't surprising there is so much drama. The human rights issues in Shawano, WI are finally going international, and its about time. Maybe we can really get this wheel spinning and bring some justice to that community. It has been too long in coming already. [http://rt.com/usa/news/native-language-menominee-wisconsin-721/ Schoolgirl banned from playing basketball for speaking Native American language] <small><span class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Kerev HaEmet|Kerev HaEmet]] ([[User talk:Kerev HaEmet|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Kerev HaEmet|contribs]]) 05:35, 3 March 2012 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
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:*Kerev, your link isn't not related to this topic. It's about a misunderstanding related to children from nearby [[Menominee Indian Reservation]] about 10 miles (15 km) north of Shawano. '''< |
:*Kerev, your link isn't not related to this topic. It's about a misunderstanding related to children from nearby [[Menominee Indian Reservation]] about 10 miles (15 km) north of Shawano. '''[[User:Royalbroil|<span style="color:#000000;">Royal</span>]][[User talk:Royalbroil|<span style="color:#FFCC00;">broil</span>]]''' 13:10, 3 March 2012 (UTC) |
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:::If SIST is going to be a page on here, then the human and civil rights issues in the community are going to be a topic. Here is the fist sentence of [[And what did we learn today, class? At Sacred Heart Catholic School in Shawano, Wisconsin, a recent lesson plan revealed to students that saying “I love you” in one’s native tongue is something worthy of disciplinary action.|the article]] "And what did we learn today, class? At Sacred Heart Catholic School in Shawano, Wisconsin, a recent lesson plan revealed to students that saying “I love you” in one’s native tongue is something worthy of disciplinary action....." As you can see this is not 10 miles from Shawano, it is right in Shawano. If WP is going to reference slanderous articles, then I am going to be forced to add relevancy from other sources to the topic with factual articles regarding the human rights abuses in the community so the average reader from a different community becomes educated that SIST and civil/human rights issues go hand in hand. [[User:Kerev HaEmet|Kerev HaEmet]] ([[User talk:Kerev HaEmet|talk]]) 18:32, 3 March 2012 (UTC) |
:::If SIST is going to be a page on here, then the human and civil rights issues in the community are going to be a topic. Here is the fist sentence of [[And what did we learn today, class? At Sacred Heart Catholic School in Shawano, Wisconsin, a recent lesson plan revealed to students that saying “I love you” in one’s native tongue is something worthy of disciplinary action.|the article]] "And what did we learn today, class? At Sacred Heart Catholic School in Shawano, Wisconsin, a recent lesson plan revealed to students that saying “I love you” in one’s native tongue is something worthy of disciplinary action....." As you can see this is not 10 miles from Shawano, it is right in Shawano. If WP is going to reference slanderous articles, then I am going to be forced to add relevancy from other sources to the topic with factual articles regarding the human rights abuses in the community so the average reader from a different community becomes educated that SIST and civil/human rights issues go hand in hand. [[User:Kerev HaEmet|Kerev HaEmet]] ([[User talk:Kerev HaEmet|talk]]) 18:32, 3 March 2012 (UTC) |
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:<span style="color:#FF4F00;">'''[[WP:RELIST|Relisted]] to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.'''</span><br /> |
:<span style="color:#FF4F00;">'''[[WP:RELIST|Relisted]] to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.'''</span><br /> |
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:<small>Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, v/r - [[User:TParis|T]][[User_talk:TParis|P]] 01:31, 12 March 2012 (UTC)</small><!-- from Template:Relist --> |
:<small>Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, v/r - [[User:TParis|T]][[User_talk:TParis|P]] 01:31, 12 March 2012 (UTC)</small><!-- from Template:Relist --> |
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*'''Relisting comment''' Relisting due to article rewrite late in the AFD.--v/r - [[User:TParis|T]][[User_talk:TParis|P]] 01:31, 12 March 2012 (UTC) |
*'''Relisting comment''' Relisting due to article rewrite late in the AFD.--v/r - [[User:TParis|T]][[User_talk:TParis|P]] 01:31, 12 March 2012 (UTC) |
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: '''delete'''. non-notable topic. there are no credible sources cited in this article and most of the information is completely missing. <small><span class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Peaceandtranquility|Peaceandtranquility]] ([[User talk:Peaceandtranquility|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Peaceandtranquility|contribs]]) 17:03, 15 March 2012 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--><br><small>— [[User:Peaceandtranquility|Peaceandtranquility]] ([[User talk:Peaceandtranquility|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Peaceandtranquility|contribs]]) has made [[Wikipedia:Single-purpose account|few or no other edits]] outside this topic. </small></s> |
: '''delete'''. non-notable topic. there are no credible sources cited in this article and most of the information is completely missing. <small><span class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Peaceandtranquility|Peaceandtranquility]] ([[User talk:Peaceandtranquility|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Peaceandtranquility|contribs]]) 17:03, 15 March 2012 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--><br><small>— [[User:Peaceandtranquility|Peaceandtranquility]] ([[User talk:Peaceandtranquility|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Peaceandtranquility|contribs]]) has made [[Wikipedia:Single-purpose account|few or no other edits]] outside this topic. </small></s> |
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*'''Comment: Please see [[Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Kerev HaEmet]].''' [[User:WilliamH|WilliamH]] ([[User talk:WilliamH|talk]]) 00:47, 17 March 2012 (UTC) |
*'''Comment: Please see [[Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Kerev HaEmet]].''' [[User:WilliamH|WilliamH]] ([[User talk:WilliamH|talk]]) 00:47, 17 March 2012 (UTC) |
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:* Shocking. Wait - no it's not. From everything I've read, this group is extremely agressive at trying to hide negative information, attack critics and exhibits some really odd behavior. Allegations of a "hit list" from the group even hit the CBS Evening News (note that no charges were filed by the FBI after the investigation). I've given up trying to trace through the maze of bankruptcy filings for them. <b |
:* Shocking. Wait - no it's not. From everything I've read, this group is extremely agressive at trying to hide negative information, attack critics and exhibits some really odd behavior. Allegations of a "hit list" from the group even hit the CBS Evening News (note that no charges were filed by the FBI after the investigation). I've given up trying to trace through the maze of bankruptcy filings for them. [[User:Ravensfire|<b style="color:darkred;">Ravensfire</b>]] ([[User talk:Ravensfire|<span style="color:black;">talk</span>]]) 01:07, 17 March 2012 (UTC) |
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:*Put me down as also unshocked (although unlike Ravensfire, I don't think the article is worth keeping). Now that they've been confirmed, I've indented and struck the !votes of the socks. <span style='font:1.0em "Apple Garamond","Adobe Garamond Pro",Garamond,serif;color:#369;'>[[User:DoriSmith|Dori]] ☾[[User talk:DoriSmith|Talk]] ⁘ [[Special:Contributions/DoriSmith|Contribs]]☽</span> 02:47, 18 March 2012 (UTC) |
:*Put me down as also unshocked (although unlike Ravensfire, I don't think the article is worth keeping). Now that they've been confirmed, I've indented and struck the !votes of the socks. <span style='font:1.0em "Apple Garamond","Adobe Garamond Pro",Garamond,serif;color:#369;'>[[User:DoriSmith|Dori]] ☾[[User talk:DoriSmith|Talk]] ⁘ [[Special:Contributions/DoriSmith|Contribs]]☽</span> 02:47, 18 March 2012 (UTC) |
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'''Comment''' I am an SPA, who's sole purpose was to edit-and add-to this page, awhile back. At first, I painted it with my views, but then added the opposition's (those who are stating that this is a business and a legitimate school, only). Despite the fact that it would be great (in my opinion) to have a site up for this group, either under this name or another, my view now is that unless it's locked down and managed by expert editors, let's not bother with it. For those who cannot find much on this group, go to rickross.com and type "rama behera" in the search field. I can add refs for many articles from the late 70's and early 80's to that list. This is one side of the story. You've heard plenty from the other--as noted above. There will *always* be this continuous battle. It doesn't help that the individual in charge has changed his name over the years, and that the business is not the same name as the religious group. They have a point--the business is different from the religion--except, the religious members run or work in the businesses that are supposed to be raising money for the school supposedly, and the man in charge, Behera/Samanta Roy/Cohen manages all of it. It's a real-life circle-circle intersection. Religion--businesses--school. As to being notable or not--it's not such a big deal to some, but to others it is--and who gets to "win"? Read my comments on the "talk page" about this issue. Let me know if you want what I have. [[User:Junipersophie|Junipersophie]] ([[User talk:Junipersophie|talk]]) 14:34, 19 March 2012 (UTC)junipersophie |
'''Comment''' I am an SPA, who's sole purpose was to edit-and add-to this page, awhile back. At first, I painted it with my views, but then added the opposition's (those who are stating that this is a business and a legitimate school, only). Despite the fact that it would be great (in my opinion) to have a site up for this group, either under this name or another, my view now is that unless it's locked down and managed by expert editors, let's not bother with it. For those who cannot find much on this group, go to rickross.com and type "rama behera" in the search field. I can add refs for many articles from the late 70's and early 80's to that list. This is one side of the story. You've heard plenty from the other--as noted above. There will *always* be this continuous battle. It doesn't help that the individual in charge has changed his name over the years, and that the business is not the same name as the religious group. They have a point--the business is different from the religion--except, the religious members run or work in the businesses that are supposed to be raising money for the school supposedly, and the man in charge, Behera/Samanta Roy/Cohen manages all of it. It's a real-life circle-circle intersection. Religion--businesses--school. As to being notable or not--it's not such a big deal to some, but to others it is--and who gets to "win"? Read my comments on the "talk page" about this issue. Let me know if you want what I have. [[User:Junipersophie|Junipersophie]] ([[User talk:Junipersophie|talk]]) 14:34, 19 March 2012 (UTC)junipersophie |
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:''The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this page.'' <!--Template:Afd bottom--></div> |