*'''Oppose''' but I would point out that "Ongoing" was designed with two and only principle sport events in mind: the Olympics, and the FIFA World Cup as both events have broad international representation. --[[User:Masem|M<font size="-3">ASEM</font>]] ([[User Talk:Masem|t]]) 19:47, 11 June 2016 (UTC)
This candidates page is integrated with the daily pages of Portal:Current events. A light green header appears under each daily section - it includes transcluded Portal:Current events items for that day. You can discuss ITN candidates under the header.
Blurbs are one-sentence summaries of the news story.
Altblurbs, labelled alt1, alt2, etc., are alternative suggestions to cover the same story.
A target article, bolded in text, is the focus of the story. Each blurb must have at least one such article, but you may also link non-target articles.
Articles in the Ongoing line describe events getting continuous coverage.
The Recent deaths (RD) line includes any living thing whose death was recently announced. Consensus may decide to create a blurb for a recent death.
All articles linked in the ITN template must pass our standards of review. They should be up-to-date, demonstrate relevance via good sourcing and have at least an acceptable quality.
Nomination steps
Make sure the item you want to nominate has an article that meets our minimum requirements and contains reliable coverage of a current event you want to create a blurb about. We will not post about events described in an article that fails our quality standards.
Find the correct section below for the date of the event (not the date nominated). Do not add sections for new dates manually - a bot does that for us each day at midnight (UTC).
Create a level 4 header with the article name (==== Your article here ====). Add (RD) or (Ongoing) if appropriate.
Then paste the {{ITN candidate}} template with its parameters and fill them in. The news source should be reliable, support your nomination and be in the article. Write your blurb in simple present tense. Below the template, briefly explain why we should post that event. After that, save your edit. Your nomination is ready!
You may add {{ITN note}} to the target article's talk page to let editors know about your nomination.
The better your article's quality, the better it covers the event and the wider its perceived significance (see WP:ITNSIGNIF for details), the better your chances of getting the blurb posted.
When the article is ready, updated and there is consensus to post, you can mark the item as (Ready). Remove that wording if you feel the article fails any of these necessary criteria.
Admins should always separately verify whether these criteria are met before posting blurbs marked (Ready). For more guidance, check WP:ITN/A.
If satisfied, change the header to (Posted).
Where there is no consensus, or the article's quality remains poor, change the header to (Closed) or (Not posted).
Sometimes, editors ask to retract an already-posted nomination because of a fundamental error or because consensus changed. If you feel the community supports this, remove the item and mark the item as (Pulled).
Voicing an opinion on an item
Format your comment to contain "support" or "oppose", and include a rationale for your choice. In particular, address the notability of the event, the quality of the article, and whether it has been updated.
Pick an older item to review near the bottom of this page, before the eligibility runs out and the item scrolls off the page and gets abandoned in the archive, unused and forgotten.
Review an item even if it has already been reviewed by another user. You may be the first to spot a problem, or the first to confirm that an identified problem was fixed. Piling on the list of "support!" votes will help administrators see what is ready to be posted on the Main Page.
Tell about problems in articles if you see them. Be bold and fix them yourself if you know how, or tell others if it's not possible.
Add simple "support!" or "oppose!" votes without including your reasons. Similarly, curt replies such as "who?", "meh", or "duh!" are not helpful. A vote without reasoning means little for us, please elaborate yourself.
Oppose an item just because the event is only relating to a single country, or failing to relate to one. We post a lot of such content, so these comments are generally unproductive.
Accuse other editors of supporting, opposing or nominating due to a personal bias (such as ethnocentrism). We at ITN do not handle conflicts of interest.
Comment on a story without first reading the relevant article(s).
Article needs updating Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Weak oppose - Not influential in her field and not well known at all outside USA or even within USA, as far as I am aware. Her death is tragic and totally unexpected but you have to question whether she is that notable in her field. The only thing that might sway it is her appearance in The Voice but even then she was only a runner-up wasn't she? On the other hand, she is on the front page of a lot of US and UK media websites at the moment but I feel that that is mainly due to the tragic nature of her death and not because of her fame. Also WP:NOTNEWS. This is coming from a Christina fan, I would love to see her on the front page but I can't see it happening. Spiderone08:29, 11 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Weak oppose. "Will be in the news for days" is speculation and (regrettably) seems unlikely. If she hadn't been on The Voice we never would have heard about this at all. 331dot (talk) 08:32, 11 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
There are unexpected killings every day in the world. If we posted the killing of every minor celebrity as a blurb(and she doesn't meet the RD criteria), we would be nothing but a news ticker. If she hadn't been on The Voice(which she didn't win) we would never have heard about this. 331dot (talk) 09:17, 11 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Support is for RD not blurb. Also that logic doesn't work. If Gordie hadn't been a top hockey player we wouldn't have heard about his death. If Ali hadn't been a top boxer we wouldn't have heard about his death. She was on the Voice, so we did hear about it. MurielMary (talk) 09:29, 11 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
OTHERSTUFFEXISTS is irrelevant when it comes to individual notability. That people are killed every day would mean that we would not post about any death. That would not work.BabbaQ (talk) 11:48, 11 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Support per MurielMary. I think this death is as notable as the deaths of Gordie or Ali, since both of their deaths were more expected and didn't involve a shooting incident. Crumpled Fire (talk) 10:16, 11 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Hahahahaha, no. I don't think entire magazines are going to be devoted to her, nor is any network going to suspend its regular programming for six hours to cover her funeral. -- Kicking222 (talk) 15:59, 11 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Support She's apparently notable enough to have had an article since 2011 with hundreds of edits prior to this, and she was murdered at a concert in a public incident. BBC and news.com.au are both putting this at the top, that looks like global coverage to me. - Lvthn13 (talk) 10:59, 11 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Support blurb - the singer is above the "normal standard" and her death has been mentioned worldwide for a reason.BabbaQ (talk) 11:09, 11 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Weak support for blurb (oppose RD). Murders of celebrities, politicians, etc. are not an everyday occurrence, which makes the death in itself notable, and it does seem to be getting considerable news coverage. At the moment, the news coverage seems somewhat empty since we have neither an identity nor a motive on the shooter, so waiting a few hours could also be a good thing. I don't think Ms. Grimmie has the kind of wide-ranging notability that would incline her toward RD apart from the tragic nature of her death, so I would lean towards a blurb or nothing. Dragons flight (talk) 11:11, 11 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Support blurb, oppose RD. The news here is that a minor celebrity (who does not meet the non-trial RD criteria) was unexpectedly shot dead. I.e. the news is the death not that a person notable for other things has died. Thryduulf (talk) 13:00, 11 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I would have agreed that if her only claim to fame was participating in The Voice then yes, she should not be featured at ITN. But, she had a successful career at Youtube previously to competing in The Voice and has had several of her music singles charting and some interesting collaborations. This one just makes the threshold for blurb inclusion.BabbaQ (talk) 13:22, 11 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose both People get shot in the United States all the time. Some of them are moderately well known (in the United States). Minor news, on a world scale. Jheald (talk) 14:36, 11 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose both This is definitely tragic but 1) she was far from the top of her field and 2) shooting people in the United States is a run-of-the-mill activity. That said, it is not sufficient to qualify either for RD or a full blurb.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 15:32, 11 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
If it's a run of the mill activity, then how you can really say it's tragic? The two are at complete odds with one another. Either this was a tragedy or it was just another uninteresting death in a land packed full of gun toting murderers; you can't have it both ways, so why not be honest about which one you think is true? - Lvthn13 (talk) 16:12, 11 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
@Lvthn13: The fact that a young person was killed is the tragedy here and it has nothing to do with the frequency of the shooting incidents in the United States. There are several hundreds shooting/stabbing incidents in the world every year and they're all tragic, regardless of whether they appear in the media or not. So, the word "tragic" doesn't depend on the amount of notability that one attributes to the event in which the person was killed compared to other similar events.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 17:04, 11 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Nonsense. This is a run of the mill American shooting, from right here in my lovely hometown: http://www.mrt.com/news/crime/article_c48c9404-25b8-11e6-a6da-679cf5172543.html. You'll note that the victim never had a Wikipedia page, there were no fans as witnesses, and it didn't get coverage throughout the Anglosphere. Now, I personally don't find either of these deaths particularly tragic, not knowing the people involved I see no reason to be dishonest about its emotional impact on me, but I would like to know what invisible line you're suggesting this doesn't cross. Not just you but several others said pretty much the same thing, so do none of you really see the difference between BBC headlines and common violence of local notability, or what's the deal here? - Lvthn13 (talk) 17:46, 11 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Strong oppose blurb. RD depends on what rules we're using at the moment, but in no way was she notable enough for a blurb, despite the tragic circumstances of her death. == Kicking222 (talk) 15:59, 11 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Support RD, the media coverage is extensive (US, CA, UK, various outlets in India, South Africa's eNCA), she's the top story on BBC News' US & Canada section right now, and she had a career before The Voice. -- Zanimum (talk) 18:39, 11 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Support RDbased on article quality. To those who said "oppose both" @LauraJamieson, Jheald, and Kiril Simeonovski:, remember that we're doing the RD trial of posting every person who dies to RD as long as they have an article of sufficient quality. Her status in the field of singing isn't relevant beyond her notability per GNG. – Muboshgu (talk) 18:54, 11 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Oh now I'm seeing that the trial ended? Well, I say make it permanent and post her to RD by WP:IAR if we have to. How does not linking this article to the main page "improve" Wikipedia as opposed to posting it? – Muboshgu (talk) 18:58, 11 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
How does integrity of posting news not improve Wikipedia? If neither her status nor her death is newsworthy in Wikipedia, then posting her death by a blurb or just her name would not improve Wikipedia. Then IAR would not apply. I don't see rules as not prevent us from approving this nomination, does it? George Ho (talk) 19:32, 11 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
The bankruptcy auction for the company gets underway when Gawker accepts techpublisherZiff Davis's bid for all seven of its brands and other assets, reportedly for $90 million to $100 million. (CNN)
The U.S. Department of Commerce approves service by six commercial airlines from five U.S. cities, including Miami and Philadelphia, to nine international airports in Cuba. Approval for routes to the capital Havana are still pending. Most of the carriers plan to begin their new service this fall and winter. (Miami Herald)
In a substantial swing, the "Leave" camp is 10 points ahead of "Remain" with less than two weeks to go before Britain's referendum on whether to stay in the European Union, according to a poll by ORB. (The Independent)
Article needs updating The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.
Oppose appalling state, some wrong tenses, plenty of unreferenced sections, almost embarrassing that it has been nominated, even if it is ITNR. The Rambling Man (talk) 20:44, 6 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
The update is not fine yet, the article needs some more work. But, if posted, we could timestamp it on today, since the counting took a while. --Tone18:12, 10 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Suport (as longtime editor, posting anonymously). The article looks mostly fine now, and the election is pretty significant beyond ITNR. The results are in: Kuczynski has defeated Fujimori to become president-elect of Peru. (if there is a problem with my anonymous !vote, please message me on usertalk.) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.179.132.196 (talk) 07:49, 11 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Comment I've moved this to the date Fujimori conceded. I originally nominated this because the BBC said then that it would be finalised the next day. That did not happen, probably because it was that close (0.25%). I'll look at cleaning some of this up - any help would be appreciated. Fuebaey (talk) 16:08, 11 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Comment The results of the second round in the results section are still missing. And some more text would help. I am willing to post but someone fix that first. --Tone16:53, 11 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
That seems like a weird one-off event, since the previous one was in 2015 and the next one is in 2019. It is hosted in the US and I would be curious if more people there pay attention to the Euro. Nergaal (talk) 21:40, 10 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose I would only ever justify Ongoing for the Olympics, where you have many different disciplines going on at once, and different winners in each. The UEFA Championship no doubt has similar traffic to any American sport's playoffs or the IPL, which as with the UEFA Championship only have one winner. '''tAD''' (talk) 21:47, 10 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Due to conflict with Copa America centenary and concerns over systemic bias in treating two comparable events differently. Better to simply have blurbs for the closing matches as provided by ITN/R. Even ignoring that conflict I'm not sure if I'd support an ongoing here - better to reserve that for global sporting events rather than regional ones (however large). StillWaitingForConnection (talk) 21:56, 10 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose So many sporting tournaments happen, and save the Olympics, none of them get posted to ongoing for their entirety. I don't think we should do so now. – Muboshgu (talk) 21:57, 10 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose - the 2016 Formula One season is ongoing for much of the year, and that don't get posted (not saying it should) - it is a world championship, not a continental championship. No need to post it until the finals per ITNR. Mjroots (talk) 08:09, 11 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Support Major competition tournament (and I hate football). I don't understand the logic of "we didn't post Copa America Centenario, so we shouldn't post this". Maybe post both.... LugnutsDick Laurent is dead08:52, 11 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. Ongoing is for events that would generate a succession of incremental blurbs, which is not something that we would consider for any single-winner sports tournament so ongoing is not appropriate. Thryduulf (talk) 12:53, 11 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. As others have suggested, Ongoing was never meant for sports events in progress. The Olympics are different as a multi-sport event, but tournaments with a single winner should never be posted to Ongoing. 331dot (talk) 19:35, 11 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. This is missing the point of Ongoing, which is to prevent the main section being flooded with multiple stories on the same topic. ("Olympic boxing champion", "Olympic swimming champion", "Olympic running champion"…) Unless something extraordinary happens, there's by definition only one match in this (or any) knockout tournament which is notable by ITN's standards. ‑ Iridescent19:38, 11 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose but I would point out that "Ongoing" was designed with two and only principle sport events in mind: the Olympics, and the FIFA World Cup as both events have broad international representation. --MASEM (t) 19:47, 11 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Article needs updating Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Support, pending a little clean-up. One of the greatest players in hockey history, and one of the greatest athletes in Canadian history. Resolute13:55, 10 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Support blurb as well. Hopefully some of the sourcing happens during the day, but if not, I'll try to tackle some of it when I'm off work. Resolute14:25, 10 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Support Blurb If Ali for boxing then surely Gordie for hockey. As said above besides Wayne Gretzky he is probably the greatest hockey player that was still alive -- Ashish-g5514:14, 10 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
While I'm also fine with a blurb- Gordie is inarguably one of the sport's greatest and most legendary players- I really hate this line of reasoning. Ali was extremely notable for what he did outside the ring, whereas Gordie was entirely notable for what he did on the ice. -- Mike(Kicking222)20:11, 10 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Regardless of what Ali did outside the ring he was still posted due to what he did in the ring. As a sports personality thats what really matters IMHO. Otherwise blurb wouldnt read American Boxer or Canadian Hockey player etc. -- Ashish-g5520:20, 10 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, it would be interesting to know how many people in the non-hockey playing countries of Europe would advocate a blurb, while pretty much every human being between the ages of 20 and 120 knew who Ali was. The Rambling Man (talk) 20:21, 10 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I dont think there is any doubt Ali was more well known. But again for that was due to his boxing career. More people know Tiger Woods too even though they dont watch golf doesnt mean Jack Nicklaus is any less prominent. -- Ashish-g5520:27, 10 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Support pending improvements There's some unsourced subjective statements in the Red Wings section (at the ends of about 2-3 para) that need sourcing, as well as his Personal Life section. --MASEM (t) 14:15, 10 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Support Blurb. The argument for greatest hockey player of all time basically comes down to Howe, Gretzky, and Orr. Statistically, Gretzky is in another stratosphere, but historically, only one player was Mr. Hockey. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 162.95.148.250 (talk) 15:00, 10 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Quality looks good to me. I don't know if he reaches the level of a blurb, but if any hockey player does, it's him (or Gretzky). – Muboshgu (talk) 16:15, 10 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I'll oppose blurb, support RD. The deaths of Prince, Ali, Bowie etc. that get a blurb have an outpouring of sentiment that I'm just not seeing for Howe. There's news stories, sure, but it's clear this death isn't having the same level of impact as those recent blurbed deaths have had. – Muboshgu (talk) 20:43, 10 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose too much of the article is speculative and unreferenced. Hopefully all these ardent supporters can improve the article. No doubting the notability. The Rambling Man (talk) 18:46, 10 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
And Oppose blurb per Johan Cruyff who played a genuinely international sport at the highest level for years, and made an impact on the game well after his retirement through radical coaching techniques. We should be consistent. Cruyff got RD, as such Gordie should too. Otherwise it's just more systemic bias. The Rambling Man (talk) 20:38, 10 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Comment just to clarify, should a blurb be posted, we should link "hockey" or replace it with "Ice hockey". There exists more than one version of the game referred to as "hockey". The Rambling Man (talk) 20:00, 10 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose blurb. I'm not seeing anywhere near the level of coverage required for a blurb here. On the main page of BBC News right now there are two stories related to Ali and a third on the front page of BBC Sport. In contrast, Howe only makes it to the third story on the ice hokey page. Ice hockey is far more popular in Canada than it is in the UK, so I picked a random Canadian City (Toronto) and looked at the website for the first result Google gave me for a newspaper in that city (Toronto Star) and I don't see the story on the main page at all. I picked another combination and looked at the Winnipeg Free Press and see it's the main story and one sports story. Chicago won the 2015 NHL so ice hockey is likely big in Chicago, yet the story is only 3rd in the sports section on the Chicago Tribune main page currently. This is not the major international reaction that is required for a death blurb in my view. Thryduulf (talk) 21:10, 10 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I think you're not getting the same results we do. I just went to the Toronto Star's website (https://www.thestar.com/) and there's a huge spread for Howe, featuring a picture of him with Gretzky, and a number of links to Howe-related stories and videos there. – Muboshgu (talk) 21:13, 10 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Ah, it seems I was viewing the "news" page not the home page (I'm not sure what they categorise it as though - I don't see it on either the news or sports pages?). If that banner and number of articles were happening internationally, or his impact was not entirely on a single sport, I'd be supporting a blurb. Simply being the best of your generation and having a long career in one field doesn't merit a blurb - think about how many fields there are and you get the idea that we'd be posting blurbs for the best cricketer, footballer (all types), baseballer, politician, chess player, badminton player, table tennis player, philopsopher, psychologist, etc. Ali wasn't just a boxer, Prince's death generated international reaction, etc. Thryduulf (talk) 22:09, 10 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Give it 24h for the news cycle to complete. His death was announced in the early morning, whereas Ali's was shortly after midnight (allowing it to make the front page that morning). I'd be happy to post pictures of the front cover of the Toronto Sun, Star, Globe and Mail, and National Post tomorrow. I have no doubt in my mind that all four will feature at least a full front page, if not a spread, on this Canadian great. Likewise, the New York Times and Washington Post have multiple articles each on the subject. - Floydianτ¢01:51, 11 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Support RD, oppose blurb. As NYBrad says below, referencing is just about there (I'm certain the remaining statistical statements are supported by the references, it's just a case of sticking the right ones in the appropriate places). Oppose a blurb because the nature of death is not noteworthy, making for a boring blurb. RD + picture would be the ideal solution. StillWaitingForConnection (talk) 00:10, 11 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Support The only sports Hall of Fame person to actually add substantially to his record after "retirement." Gets 8 articles between 10 June and 11 June in The New York Times alone (extremely rare event, by the way), covered by every major newspaper you can think of - including the Toronto Star ("The legendary Detroit Red Wings star played in 1,767 games and is the only NHL player to have suited up in five decades. He retired as the NHL’s all-time leading scorer and is considered by many to be “the greatest hockey player ever.”"), CBC "The nickname Mr. Hockey says it all." and so on. Major article on BBC [1]. RT even [2]. France, Belgium, German, Swiss newspapers. RAI. You name it, they covered Howe's death. Collect (talk) 21:32, 10 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I had already started doing so before you started whinging about British nationalism (despite not a single person questioning that the subject is important enough to go on the Main Page) whilst refusing to muck in yourself. StillWaitingForConnection (talk) 01:14, 11 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Support for RD promptly. The article is above average in coverage and the remaining cn-tagged sentences are minor (although of course knowledgeable editors should still fill them in). No strong view either way on blurb. Newyorkbrad (talk) 23:53, 10 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Support blub, article should be good to go now. No one bigger in hockey except possibly for Wayne Gretzky. Mr. Hockey should get a full blurb. ---- Patar knight - chat/contributions01:09, 11 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Support blurb as nom. Aside from Gretzky, who likely has several decades ahead of him, Howe is as significant to his sport as Clay was to his. I'm not sure how to word his significance in an objective way aside from the fact that Howe played hockey for almost as many years as Gretzky has been alive. - Floydianτ¢01:41, 11 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Your Islamophobia was unneeded in your nomination, but thanks for sharing, I guess? Next time, maybe you should just discuss the article at hand and leave personal prejudices out of it. -- Mike(Kicking222)02:53, 11 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
What is your problem exactly, why can't you call him with the name he changed to instead of his slave birth name that he despised. Is there something that is bothering that you choose to disrespect him Alexis Ivanov (talk) 19:26, 11 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Which he changed and requested that people stop using his original name, something that all of us have the right to do for any reason. This would be a better world if decisions like that were respected. It has nothing to do with "white liberal guilt". 331dot (talk) 09:32, 11 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
It was completely inappropriate and unnecessary for someone who had voted in favour of a blurb to then post one. Posting to RD would have been fine, as there was no opposition to that, but while there was lots of support for a blurb, there was also some strong opposition and the nomination had only been up for about 12 hours. In those circumstances, I cannot see that this posting falls within the exception for involved administrators to act where any reasonable administrator would have come to the same conclusion. Other administrators might well have decided to allow more time for discussion on whether a blurb was appropriate.
The support for a blurb here seems like a classic case of systemic bias due to the disproportionate number of North American users - particularly as non-American sporting legends who have died recently and are at least as significant as Howe, such as Johan Cruyff and Jonah Lomu, have not received blurbs. Neljack (talk) 03:37, 11 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Well looks like Gordie was on the exit route for nearly two years, so this is no surprise at all. That Cruyff was voted down and this individual gets a blurb, posted by a Canadian blurb supporter no less, is a shocking indication of nefarious goings-on here. Shameful. The Rambling Man (talk) 05:37, 11 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Strong oppose to blurb this individual does not meet any of the criteria for an RD blurb as listed on the criteria page. What is the point of having criteria if personal bias and personal preferences are going to be used to determine whether an RD should be a blurb? There is zero coverage of this death globally - nothing in Australia or New Zealand, nothing in South America or Asia or India or China, no impact on the world, no outpouring of grief nothing. He was a top sportsperson in one sport in one country but no more than that. How can he be on a par with Bowie or Ali or Prince? Recommend removal and placing appropriately into RD.MurielMary (talk) 09:00, 11 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Dead Canadian gets blurb posted by Canadian administrator with plenty of north American votes for, but plenty of non-north American votes against. It's called systemic bias I'm afraid. The Rambling Man (talk) 09:02, 11 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, indeed. So we might as well replace the criteria with a statement like "if you personally believe this is newsworthy then go ahead and post it" as the criteria have been completely ignored in this case. Why bother with criteria any longer? MurielMary (talk) 09:06, 11 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Many of our contributors don't bother with criteria and when they're scrutinised, you'll get "IAR" or you'll get "the majority of our readership is North American" etc. It's systemic bias at its most virulent. The Rambling Man (talk) 09:09, 11 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I do agree that it was not appropriate for someone voting for a blurb to then post one, given the way the discussion stands now, and maybe it should be pulled. That said, I do support a blurb as Howe was clearly one of the top figures in the sport. World coverage is not required(and specifically discouraged) and I wouldn't expect this to get coverage in Australia and New Zealand given the level of ice hockey interest there. I'm not sure when systemic bias was expanded to 'North America' but we didn't post a great number of dead Canadians under this criteria. 331dot (talk) 09:32, 11 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
So it's systemic bias for an American to support a blurb about a Canadian? As I indicated I don't know when systemic bias was expanded to North America. I didn't say I opposed a blurb on the soccer player, I said I wasn't convinced of the need for one. If he was one of the top three figures worldwide in the sport, then OK. Soccer has a much larger following than ice hockey I believe, so that would be much harder for a soccer player. 331dot (talk) 09:55, 11 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
(ec) No, it's systemic bias for an American to vote against a footballer getting a blurb. I don't suppose you even read the Cruyff article. Gordie had a long career during which he set records. That is all. Cruyff was considered one of the greatest players in the history of a global sport and went on to re-define the way in which that very sport was played. Some have described him as the most influential footballer in history. But that's not good enough for the Americans. But an ice hockey player who played for ages and then died unremarkably is. Systemic bias rules. The Rambling Man (talk) 09:58, 11 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Eh? The long career hockey player warrants a blurb but the most influential footballer in history remains to convince you?? Says enough I think. The Rambling Man (talk) 10:12, 11 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
331dot, if you would not expect Gordie's death to be covered internationally then how on earth can you claim that he was a "major transformative world leader"?? That is the criteria for death to be posted as a blurb. If his death was reported globally, that would support him getting a blurb. It wasn't reported globally because he's not a majorly influential world figure. Continue to recommend pulling as this is dropping the bar substantially for blurb postings. MurielMary (talk) 10:00, 11 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Ice hockey does not get worldwide coverage; but this is well covered in areas where it does. That doesn't mean that ice hockey cannot ever be discussed globally. 331dot (talk) 10:06, 11 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose/Comment Why was this posted in the news section and not the recent deaths? This looks like an error - please correct it ASAP.
As a comment: I'm wondering in what kind of world we're living that the death of sports-people is considered that relevant. Take a look at the state of the world and ask yourself if one can with all seriousness conclude that the departure of people who achieved great results in various popular games of body-exercise are noteworthier than whatever countless observations, scientific findings, public events and processes, political decisions, sociological and technological debuts were made in recent days. --Fixuture (talk) 12:54, 11 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Keep blurb. Widely considered to be among the greatest hockey players of all time, and dying of old age doesn't automatically disqualify an individual from having a blurb. Calidum¤13:57, 11 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
That's not true BabbaQ - Jheald's opposition is based on the actual criteria listed for a person's death to be listed as a blurb. Which are that the person must have been an influential world leader. MurielMary (talk) 15:41, 11 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
deceased was widely regarded as a very important figure in his or her field. - is a criteria, and he forfills it. Period. MurielMary, you make it sound that the criteria you are mentioning are the only one to follow. Which is not true. --BabbaQ (talk) 15:45, 11 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
The criteria you have just quoted is for an RD listing not for a blurb. Go back and read the criteria for a blurb of a death. MurielMary (talk) 15:48, 11 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Keep blurb - one of the best and most famous hockey players of all time. and the pull blurb !votes above are just WP:IDONTLIKEIT and WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS, it has no baring on a top field hockey player whos death became known worldwide.BabbaQ (talk) 15:20, 11 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
That's not true. The "pull" votes above are based on actual policy - the criteria for a blurb of a recent death, which specify that the person must have been a majorly influential world leader. This person does not meet this criteria. Nothing about personal preference. MurielMary (talk) 15:35, 11 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
@BabbaQ:. The criteria are at Wikipedia:In_the_news#Recent_deaths_section. Is the cause of the hockey player's death the main story? Or events surrounding the death? Or (rare cases only) was he a major transformative world leader? (Hence my question above: was he a Mandela, a Reagan, an Ali ?) Those are the criteria laid down for a blurb.
Or, on the other hand, was the person's life the main story? Does the news reporting of the death consists solely of obituaries? Has the update to the article in question been principally a statement of the time and cause of death? Then RD is appropriate. Jheald (talk) 15:47, 11 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
BabbaQ kindly add the worldwide sources that you mention to the nomination bar at the top of this discussion. According to my searches this news has been reported only in North America and the UK. Nothing from Asia, China, India, South America, Africa, Australia or Oceania. MurielMary (talk) 16:12, 11 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
WP looks foolish right now with a sportsperson on a blurb spot which has been previously used for the likes of Bowie and Prince. Looks like the major source of information in the world considers this guy to be an influential world leader. Ugh. MurielMary (talk) 15:35, 11 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I don't need to show stats because I did not say that the public gets their daily news from WP. I said that WP is the main source of information in the world, which is undisputed given the way WP appears in google searches etc etc. Also there is absolutely nothing wrong with reconsidering a decision and changing it. It's a sign of maturity to recognise one's one errors and fix them rather than allowing the mistake to stand in a bull-headed way to avoid some odd idea that change will result in loss of face. MurielMary (talk) 15:46, 11 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
MurielMary, I have only two questions. Why are you ranting? And why are POV pushing?. Just asking. If it had been a close call when it comes to notability I would have understood, but not here, sorry.--BabbaQ (talk) 15:49, 11 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I am advocating for the criteria to be applied correctly as if they are not applied correctly there is no point in having them. That is neither ranting nor POV. It is objectivity. Without criteria, we just post what we personally think is notable rather than using criteria. Why are you asking me these questions instead of addressing the fact that you've been using the wrong criteria to judge this nomination, as pointed out by two editors now? MurielMary (talk) 15:55, 11 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, once or twice. I don't watch TV, let alone hockey. Wayne Gretzky ≠ Gordie Howe. 70.50.215.119 (talk) 15:57, 11 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Actually, when you said "Wayne Gretzky ≠ Gordie Howe" it became clear that you don't follow hockey, so naturally you wouldn't know them. Gretzky not only broke some of Howe's career records, they had a good and friendly relationship. Gretzky certainly knew who Howe was. ←Baseball BugsWhat's up, Doc? carrots→ 17:16, 11 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
PP-Suport & Blurb As a non-hockey following non-Canadian, if my first reaction is "wow, Mr Hockey has passed!" then I think there is very little reason to oppose this nom and blurb. μηδείς (talk) 15:33, 11 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Pull blurb - I've never heard of him (mind you, I am English) and feel that this is more RD than blurb. I also feel that this was posted prematurely and that there was clearly no solid consensus to post it at the time; maybe only a slight majority in favour, at best. Spiderone16:01, 11 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Clear pull blurb and move to RD. This is borderline pathetic. We had an Dutch international footballer who influenced the history of the game during his playing career and during his extensive coaching career pushed to RD by North Americans. Now we have a North American with a long playing career and a few records but nothing else getting a full blurb and image on the main page, like Ali. This situation is utterly beyond comprehension. Pathetic doesn't cover it, but it's common place now that this is more and more about North America and less and less about the English language. The Rambling Man (talk) 16:13, 11 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
You, if anyone should be able to handle some light hearted fun. But I guess that only is OK when it comes from you ;). I take it in stride....--BabbaQ (talk) 16:54, 11 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Pull blurb clearly does not meet the criteria for a blurb and and clearly no consensus to override them. It also was posted by an involved admin. Thryduulf (talk) 16:37, 11 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Pull blurb. No disrespect to Howe, and I'm sure ice hockey has a global following. But what on earth is he doing at the top of ITN? This really doesn't look right, or well balanced, at all. 86.175.165.134 (talk) 16:42, 11 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Support blurb Howe is recognized as one of the top two players to ever play his sport. He's a national hero for Canadians. The article is in good shape and well-sourced. Pulling it now without any article-quality concerns would seem like a spite to Howe. --Tocino16:59, 11 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
The only ones guilty of that are those who think he deserves a blurb and those who actually posted a blurb. Truly awful decision-making. And so North-American-centric: a perfect example of systemic bias! The Rambling Man (talk) 17:58, 11 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Comment there is a 2 to 1 consensus to pull this blurb. Please, an uninvolved admin (i.e. preferably not a Canadian ice hockey fan) assess this and decide one way or the other. The Rambling Man (talk) 18:00, 11 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Keep blurb If it had not been posted then its one thing but pulling is highly and utterly disrespectful. There was consensus for blurb at time of posting, even if it was a slight consensus. A very recognized person all around so it isnt like a blurb is a bad thing and article has improved quite a bit too. I do get few editors are consistently shouting for a pull but an admin should properly look at where the consensus lies and be mindful that its already been posted so there better be a very strong consensus to pull 2607:FEA8:5520:3A0:9527:DBB6:1FC9:BEFB (talk) 19:07, 11 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Please, North Americans, give it a moment. It is far from "antiproductive" (which is not a word) and in actuality needs scrutiny, particularly in light of the abject refusal of the community to post Johann Cruyff as a blurb. This ice hockey jockey had a long career and as such set a few records. So what? Cruyff redefined how the world's most popular game was played, as well as being one of the finest exponents himself. This is a real joke, and just because something was posted by someone with a very overt vested interest, it doesn't mean it should be straightforward to pull it. The Rambling Man (talk) 19:26, 11 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Pull blurb per MurielMary; calling Howe a "major transformative world leader in his field" may technically be accurate, but is distorting the intention behind that wording—written with people like Mikhail Gorbachev and Paul McCartney in mind—to breaking point. (With Ali gone, the only sporting figures I could imagine having sufficient impact to qualify for a blurb for a death in unexceptional circumstances will be Pele and maybeRoger Bannister and Jerry Rice.) "Extremely important in his/her field but little-known outside it" is exactly the situation for which Recent Deaths was created. ‑ Iridescent19:23, 11 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
It is more "distorting" to compare a politician, musician and a sportsman. Howe was a top field player, McCartney is a top field musician etc... strawman anyone?. It is becoming quite absurd :DBabbaQ (talk) 19:34, 11 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
No, I agree with Iridescent, whose analysis is spot on. This is a real embarrassment. I'd see Howe as maybe DYK material, not as the lead in ITN. It's really cringeworthy that this is still there. 217.38.89.229 (talk) 19:57, 11 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
What puts Jerry Rice in that category? I wasn't planning to get involved in this discussion, but that comment fascinates me. (I'd support Jerry Rice for a blurb, but do people in the UK actually know about him?) Zagalejo^^^20:03, 11 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
New Zealand Prime MinisterJohn Key visits Fiji, the first time a Kiwi leader has done so since the 2006 coup d'état. Key is hoping to improve relations between the two countries though it's clear their political tensions don't have easy solutions. (AP)
Law and crime
Papua New Guinea student protests
Papua New Guinea student protest leader Noel Anjo says demonstrations will continue despite the court order barring protests. "The students are not going to give up until and unless the prime minister resigns or surrenders himself to police and is arrested and charged," Anjo said. (BBC)(Reuters)
Venezuelan opposition lawmaker, Julio Borges, is left bloodied after being hit in the face with a pipe in downtown Caracas. He spoke at a press conference after the attack with blood streaming down from his nose and mouth, and bloody stains on his button-down shirt, accusing the attackers of being supporters of PresidentNicolás Maduro. (AP via ABC News)
California'sright to die law, that allows physicians to prescribe medicines to terminally ill patients to hasten their deaths, goes into effect. California is the fifth state in America where this practice is legal. Opponents sue to overturn the law as unconstitutional because it denies terminally ill patients protections afforded other citizens. (Los Angeles Times)
Election officials announce all ballots have been processed and Pedro Pablo Kuczynski wins the closest presidential contest in five decades with 50.1 percent of the votes versus 49.9% for Keiko Fujimori. Fujimori has yet to concede defeat. As many as 50,000 ballots still need to be reviewed, but experts say Fujimori can not make up the difference of roughly 40,000 votes separating her from Kuczynski. (BBC News)(ABC News)(AP)
The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Oppose Thougt about nominating him myself, but in the end, the article is just not comprehensive enough to make Main Page... Zwerg Nase (talk) 11:42, 9 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Two Palestinian gunmen open fire in the Israeli city of Tel Aviv killing at least four people and injuring at least 18 others. The two gunmen are arrested. (AP)
Airstrikes in rebel-held districts of Aleppo kill at least 15 people and wound dozens while three hospitals are hit including one of the few that still provides pediatric services. UNICEF says medics had to take babies out of incubators. It is unclear who was responsible, though government forces, backed by the Russian Air Force, have run operations to regain control of the divided city. (BBC)(Deccan Chronicle)
A United Nations commission of inquiry says that Eritrea should be referred to the International Criminal Court for alleged crimes against humanity committed in the country, including the enslavement of between 300,000 and 400,000 people through military conscription. (AP)
A Papua New Guinea court grants an injunction barring university students from protesting on campus. Thousands of students across the nation have been protesting and boycotting classes for weeks calling for Prime MinisterPeter O'Neill's resignation over corruption allegations. (Reuters)
Eritrean Mered Medhanie, aka The General, leader of one of the largest criminal operations unsafely smuggling migrants from Africa to Europe for up to €5,000 (£3,900; $5,680), is extradited to Italy. Police say in one attempt at least 359 migrants died when their boat sank near the Italian island of Lampedusa in October 2013. (BBC)
The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.
Nominator's comments: The ITNR list states that new chemical elements are posted at the announcement of their discovery and their official naming; this is the latter. 331dot (talk) 11:39, 9 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Too early, I guess. IUPAC only submitted a request for comments. Final names will be confirmed on 8 November 2016. This is unless the new names would already gain massive media coverage. --PanchoS (talk) 13:18, 9 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
@PanchoS: They are getting coverage now, and the coverage indicates that it is extremely unlikely these will be changed. As with business transaction announcements, this is getting more coverage now than it will when the name is "official". 331dot (talk) 13:37, 9 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
That's not mentioned in the sources I have seen, most if not all of which suggest the odds of the names changing are very small. 331dot (talk) 16:14, 9 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I don't think so. Controversies arose when competing researchers found the same element at about the same time. The current cases were undisputed, so the teams who synthesized the elements have the right to propose a name. Oganesson would be a controversial name by historical precedent, as Yuri Oganessian is still alive. But in the end, there is a precedent with Seaborgium, and if IUPAC didn't object, who else should. Personally, I don't think any of the names will be changed. In the unlikely case, that would mean a major controversy that justified another ITN blurb. --PanchoS (talk) 03:05, 10 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I linked to that because I figured it would be simpler to link to one article instead of four separate ones. This is also in the news collectively and not for each element. 331dot (talk) 00:48, 10 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, but we've had chemical elements ever since Dalton. It's the naming of these four elements in particular that is in the news, so I think they should be the ones bolded. Banedon (talk) 00:55, 10 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Pull unless the linked articles are moved. This is absurd, if we actually are reporting that the elements have been renamed (or even proposing to be renamed), all four redirects from the main page should be fixed immediately, or this item should be pulled. If we are confident enough to post this story, we should be confident enough to move the articles and adjust them to reflect the previous (temporary) names, otherwise this is crystal-balling. The Rambling Man (talk) 20:07, 10 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I think it is ok to move the articles since the Uux names are actually placeholders, and final candidate/proposed name is more appropriate than a placeholder. I was going to move them myself and rewrite the intro but 3 of them require admin privileges. I moved Ts only. Nergaal (talk) 21:15, 10 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
My understanding of this is that it is pretty much like regular elections which happen before there is actually a new president. These 4 names are unlikely to get changed as is the case for an elected president to not actually start his tenure. Nergaal (talk) 21:49, 10 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Perhaps, but it doesn't really matter. I suggest pulling as a vote on one of the pages was agains moving. Since having redirects on the main page is a really low standard, the only sensible option at this point is pulling. Nergaal (talk) 12:02, 11 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Oppose 1 sentence for a ~20 year playing career is nowhere near enough. Also, the second half of the managing career section is basically just wordier-than-average proseline. Thryduulf (talk) 14:08, 8 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Agree on the quality issues. However, do the trial rules apply to this nomination? If not... ah well, he was a football manager, so does that make him significant in his football field? George Ho (talk) 03:36, 9 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
The individual has been noted as a "legend" of Nigerian football, so trial or no trial (and I believe we are still in the trial period, as you have already noted), this individual is notable enough for RD, just need to bump up the quality. The Rambling Man (talk) 05:04, 9 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Leaning oppose. Tel Aviv is not the most peaceful city in the world, and 4 deaths is the minimum level at which something like this gets to be labeled as mass shooting. We wouldn't post a 4 deaths shooting in a US campus, and I think this is pretty equivalent for Middle East. Nergaal (talk) 00:19, 9 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose The subject is noteworthy and there is the potential for this article to direct readers to other good articles, but the text is stilted, repetitive and reads like an early draft. I will change this if the article improves.128.214.53.104 (talk) 07:05, 9 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose As mentioned above, we probably wouldn't post this if it happened on an American campus, and it's in a conflict location. It's not a particularly great article to be showcasing on the main page either. Laura Jamieson (talk)07:29, 9 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Support - First Palestinian deadly attack since March 8. There is at least one significant consequence. Eighty-three thousand permits for Palestinians from the West Bank to visit family in Israel or the Temple Mount in Jerusalem were rescinded, just when Ramadan begin.[3] There is also ongoing military operation on Western Bank.--Jenda H. (talk) 14:06, 9 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose 83,000 revoked permits is a big deal, four shot people is not. If there was an article on the ban, I'd support that, with the shooting linked in its blurb. But the shooting itself seems more like a pretext than a catalyst. InedibleHulk(talk) 01:33, June 10, 2016 (UTC)
Comment The Times of Israel source listed in the nom was a live blog, now expired. I replaced it with a similar story. Hope that's OK. InedibleHulk(talk) 01:43, June 10, 2016 (UTC)
Support given the consequences. Added a slightly shorter altblurb2 that does mention the consequences, but still focusses on the trigger event. --PanchoS (talk) 03:15, 10 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
No opinion overall but oppose Alternative blurb as it's not written in good English and oppose both alternative blurbs for their focus on the response to an act of terror, rather than the incident itself. --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned!07:21, 10 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Seven police officers and four civilians are killed, and 36 people are wounded, three critically, by a car bomb explosion near the main tourism district in Istanbul, Turkey. The explosives, detonated by remote control, wrecked a passing police bus, reports CNN Türk. There is no immediate claim of responsibility. (Reuters)(AP)
Turkish police detain four people for interrogation. (The Daily Star)
Kazakhstan police report the death toll from Sunday's attack in Aktobe is now 19 — three civilians, three National Guard servicemen, and 13 attackers. (Reuters)
A pickup truck reported to be driving erratically mowed down a group of nine bicycle riders, killing five and injuring four near Kalamazoo, Michigan. The driver was arrested after fleeing. Authorities have not established any contributing causes of what is being called the worst bicycle accident in the county. (The Atlantic)(CTV News)
Health and medicine
Johns Hopkins University researchers report, in the journal Health Affairs, that media reports about people accused of committing violent crimes having mental illnesses rarely discuss successful treatment of patients, and thereby overstate the problem. Most people exhibiting the types of psychological conditions the media mention are not generally violent. The researchers suggest coverage reinforces fear of mental illness and the people who have it, and, because of the social stigma, discourages people from seeking treatment. (UPI)(Health Affairs)
Nominator's comments: A grim death toll in one of the world's major cities. Tragically, the sixth such attack in the last 18 months. '''tAD''' (talk) 08:52, 7 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Wait until the article is up to the necessary standards.Support on notability as this is a significant attack with a relatively high death toll in a normally peaceful city (the conflict is confined to the Kurdish regions in the southeast, the vast majority of the country is peaceful) that regardless of the recent bombings, is of great importance globally and is still an important tourist destination (1.75 million foreigners visited Turkey in April). For those who will doubt the notability of this, please contrast this with the 2016 Gaziantep bombing and May 2016 Dürümlü bombing, which we did not post. --GGT (talk) 11:22, 7 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Wait. A peaceful city? This is the third bombing in Istanbul this year. Turkey currently experiences a constitutional crisis and is increasingly on the verge of a civil war. Following the immunity bill in combination with yesterday's replacement of 3,700 judges, the irreparable alienation of Turkish Kurds, the weakened position of Barzani in Iraqi Kurdistan, a total breakdown of the EU talks, a further deteriorating relationship to the U.S., the total failure of the Syria policy, culminating in the failure to forestall the Kurds in Manbij, we might even see another military coup. In this context, we can't post daily updates of the situation at WP:In the news, unless there is a very good article. Actually, an overview article on the overall situation currently unfolding in Turkey, possibly a timeline, would be helpful and might qualify as a candidate for an ongoing event. --PanchoS (talk) 12:15, 7 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I think the previous user's mention of "peaceful" was in relation. There is gang crime in all large American cities, but all are "at peace" in that they are not occupied like for example Raqqa. There have been six bombings in Istanbul in the last 18 months. That stands out in comparison to any city in the European Union, but is "better" than cities currently in war in Syria and Iraq '''tAD''' (talk) 12:29, 7 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Comment – Unfortunately, this sort of thing has become so frequent in the region that one becomes inured to it. Not sure this instance is ITN material. OTOH, I see BBC, Reuters lead with it. Undecided. Sca (talk) 12:56, 7 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Turkey is simply not Syria or Iraq and business is mostly as usual for civilians in the country, except for the southeast where the situation is completely distinct from the west and has been for the large part of the last four decades. Istanbul is not an embattled city, it is a peaceful one that is increasingly plagued by terrorism, but not to the extent of everyday slaughter, and we have every reason to post this major attack on a popular tourist spot (again, contrast with "minor" attacks, some listed above, or another blast targeting military in Istanbul recently that we don't even have an article about). If a third major attack hit Paris last year and killed 11, would we not post it (noting that the three attacks in Istanbul in 2015 were minor attacks and did not really affect the lives of the residents)? The political crisis unfolding is very grave but "the verge of a civil war" is the crucial point here. Turkey has been in perpetual political crisis for most of its republican history, that is no reason not to post it per se. As of today, there simply is no countrywide conflict in Turkey and life for people in major cities is not that greatly different from Paris perhaps, which remains under emergency rule. I repeat that 1.75 million people visited the country in April alone, which still makes it a major tourist destination, despite the ~30% drop in tourism. This alone IMHO justifies posting an attack close to a major tourist attraction. --GGT (talk) 12:50, 7 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Support article quality is sufficient for the main page: It's long enough, well written, and properly referenced. --Jayron3216:56, 7 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Support GGT's comments on the geographic distribution of 'terrorist' incidents in Turkey are obvious even to this casual, amateur observer of developments in Turkey. Let us hope this does not become endemic in Istanbul Province and possibly somehow spread to the rest of Thrace, i.e. Bulgaria or Greece. CaradhrasAiguo (talk) 22:36, 7 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
A soldier is killed and another injured after a fire spread to an ammunition dump at the Salawa army camp near Sri Lanka's capital Colombo. Thousands of people in the area were evacuated. The fire is under control, according to a military spokesman. (AP)
Florida GovernorRick Scott declares a state of emergency as Tropical Storm Colin's rain and gusty winds pelt the state's west coast. Maximum sustained winds at 1:00 p.m. EDT are 50 mph (85 kpm). Between three and five inches of rain are forecast for northern Florida, with some areas getting up to eight inches. (Miami Herald)(NHC)
With more than 92% of the vote counted, Pedro Pablo Kuczynski is ahead of Keiko Fujimori by just over 103,000 votes, 50.3 percent to 49.6 percent, in the electorate of 23 million citizens. Ballots of Peruvians living abroad will begin to arrive tonight. Mariano Cucho, the head of the electoral office, says the count may not be finalized until Thursday or Friday. (CNN via WFXP)(Reuters)(Fox News Latino)
Haiti will redo its presidential election after findings of widespread voter fraud in last years voting. Additional measures will be put in place for the first round in October this year. (Fox News)
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
There are still several paragraphs that are completely unsourced, and a citation needed tag (although that's not a crucial one). Thryduulf (talk) 12:51, 11 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Oppose I find it hard to imagine any chess player reaching the levels of the Bowie/Prince/Ali that get blurbs. This article needs more citations before it can be considered ready to post, and some of the "score" information is not comprehensible to me as a layperson who loses in chess every time I play, hence the oppose. – Muboshgu (talk) 22:37, 6 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Great progress. I tagged another spot that needs a citation. Then there's still the matter of text like this: "Korchnoi won by (+2−1=7)". I have no idea what sort of scoring system that is, or what to make of it. It probably makes sense to a chess expert. – Muboshgu (talk) 23:09, 6 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
OK. It means "Won 2 Lost 1 Drawn 7". I'm not sure we can go through every chess article fixing this (and I;m sure many other sports have arcane scoring rules that many people don't understand?). Laura Jamieson (talk)23:11, 6 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Actually no the scoring notation is not intuitive enough for non-chess players - both myself and Muboshgu were unable to parse it - to me "+2-1=7" looks like a broken equation or somehow wining with a total of 7 points (maybe 2 wins at 4 points each with 1 point docked for an infraction?). The way to fix this is either to be explicit on every occurrence or to explain it on the first occurrence - maybe "2 wins, 1 loss and 7 draws (+2-1=7)" or something. Thryduulf (talk) 00:25, 7 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I think it's ready so I support. My comments about the scoring are more relevant for GAR than here anyway, but at least now I know what it means. – Muboshgu (talk) 00:49, 7 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose blurb there is no way that a sports professional who was never world champion (or equivalent) and with no notable achievements outside their sport will ever be worthy of a blurb (that is for people who have had a truly exceptional impact on a very large number of people and whose death is major news in non-specialist media (e.g. Muhammad Ali, Margaret Thatcher, David Bowie). Thryduulf (talk) 22:54, 6 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Um, you do realise that notability is irrelevant to RD at the moment? Regardless, there are obits for Korchnoi all over the media from multiple locations (BBC, Guardian, Independent, Russia Today, Al-Jazeera etc). Laura Jamieson (talk)23:09, 6 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, but notability is not irrelevant to blurbs (and this oppose is explicitly only opposing a blurb) and media coverage of the death is only one criterion and this does not meet that one - the coverage given to Jorchnoi is in no way comparable to that given to e.g. Prince or Ali. Thryduulf (talk) 00:18, 7 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Read again, the first oppose is explicitly and specifically opposing a blurb and does so for reasons that are not fixable. This oppose is explicitly specifically opposing a recent deaths listing until the article has been improved. I chose to do it this way for added clarity. Thryduulf (talk) 00:18, 7 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Weak support RD now the citation issues have been fixed. I'd prefer if it were made more accessible but there seems opposition to this (see above). Thryduulf (talk) 00:30, 7 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Support RD. He may not be a household name in the U.S. but everybody who grew up behind the Iron Curtain, such as myself, certainly remembers the Karpov-Korchnoi matches which were presented as larger than life events in the Soviet Union and the Eastern Block, with Karpov symbolically representing the communist East and Korchnoi representing the capitalist West. Certainly a unique historical figure, even if he did not become a World Champion. Nsk92 (talk) 23:07, 6 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Marked ready for RD. Definitely qualified per trial, and likely qualified even absent the trial. Blurb discussion can continue, though consensus seems leaning against. Newyorkbrad (talk) 23:21, 6 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Support RD, blurb. He may not be so well remembered by non-chessplayers today but for those of us who were around in 1978 his match with Karpov was all over the news, there was even a regular TV series on BBC. As with the Fischer-Spassky match the cold war angle got a lot of publicity. He's notable all right. MaxBrowne (talk) 00:09, 7 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose blurb per Thryduulf. Korchnoi's death is big news in the chess world, but I doubt even the death of someone like Kasparov would qualify for ITN. Deaths in ITN blurbs should involve widespread non-specialist coverage, and Korchnoi just doesn't qualify. Kasparov might, because he's both involved in politics and was the first human champion to lose to a computer, but even then I think it's unlikely. Banedon (talk) 03:54, 7 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Support RD, Oppose blurb - I'm a chess tragic and major contributor to many chess articles, but I can't support a blurb. It barely touched the radar on most mainstream news sources. I support RD though. In chess there have been 11 world champions in the 70-odd years since WW2, and Korchnoi's 3 narrow losses to Karpov means he's probably the most significant non champion. So that makes him roughly the 12th most important player in 70 years, which means the chess world probably gets a death of his significance once every 5 years on average. Adpete (talk) 06:44, 7 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
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RD: Peter Shaffer
Article:Peter Shaffer (talk·history· ) Recent deaths nomination () News source(s):BBC Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
He's very notable: Equus, Amadeus. The lack of sources reflects a lack of effort by previous editors, not a comment on the deceased. I'll be busy watching baseball tonight, and confirming Trump as the next president of the US tomorrow. In the meantime, most of the CN's in that article are refworthy--if someone else wants to do it. μηδείς (talk) 21:05, 6 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
English/American comedian John Oliver buys and then forgives $15,000,000 (USD) in medical debt to about 9,000 people, making it the biggest ever giveaway in television history. (CNN)
Firefighters have contained about 80 percent of the 516-acre brush fire in Calabasas, California. Evacuation orders affecting at least 5,000 people in the Los Angeles area are being lifted. The fire started yesterday when a pickup truck struck a power pole. (CNN)(NBC News)
Amid frustrations with the ongoing economic crisis, Puerto Rican Democrats vote in the Commonwealth's primary with front-runner Hillary Clinton forecast to win following yesterday's sweep in the Virgin Islands' caucus, moving even closer to locking up her party's presidential nomination. There are 60 pledged delegates at stake. (AP via U.S. News & World Report)(CNN)
Hillary Clinton wins Puerto Rico's Democratic presidential primary and, according to the Associated Press, is now less than 30 delegates short of the 2,383 needed to win the nomination. (AP)(NPR)
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Oppose at this time. A relatively minor crash, and reading the BBC article it sounds like they already suspect what might have happened (a lightning strike affecting signals). 331dot (talk) 10:06, 6 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Iff the lightning strike was the cause of the accident, then it is a significant development. Modern signalling systems are supposed to be immune from such events, and should always fail safe. As the article states, the cause is "under investigation". It is not our job to pre-judge the cause. Mjroots (talk) 10:11, 6 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Leaving aside the alleged lightning strike, which I stated was only suspected, it's still a relatively minor accident. 331dot (talk) 10:21, 6 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
oppose unless and until it becomes clear that it has more significance than it appears to have on the surface - the lightning strike theory appears to be principally (exclusively?) media speculation at this point. I note we didn't post the Dalfsen train crash in February and this strikes me as a similar scale of event to that. Thryduulf (talk) 10:18, 6 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose - People are unfortunately dead but this is not a catastrophe that stands out in any way, the lightning hypothesis aside '''tAD''' (talk) 20:29, 6 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
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Hillary Clinton picks up six out of seven pledged delegates in the V.I. caucus. (AP via ABC News)
Science and technology
Scientists report, in the AHA journal Stroke, that a small trial of stroke victims showed significant improvement following injection of stem cells directly into their brains. The study had been designed just to test whether the highly experimental therapy was safe. Such treatments were available in China for many years but treatment results were very inconclusive. (Tech Insider)(Stroke)
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The missing flight has been on the media, and the article has been updated. However, while the investigation is ongoing, and we pray condolences to the victims and survivors' loved ones, I don't see anything newer and fresher in the blurbsprose, even when the latest blurbprose update was two days ago (June 2). I think a blurb can do when the missing flight is found or something more newsworthy. --George Ho (talk) 18:06, 4 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Remove now we have a more concrete date for an update, i.e. 9/10 June for recovery of black boxes and then a couple of days to analyse whether this was just an accident (which probably won't be restored to ITN) or a terrorist act (which probably would be restored to ITN). The Rambling Man (talk) 19:05, 4 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
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The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.
Nominator's comments: Ahead of pre-race favourite US Army Ranger. Article has a sizable build-up, but lacks a race summary. Fuebaey (talk) 16:46, 4 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.
Comment added altblurb and suggest waiting till tomorrow to post. Article needs match summaries for both in the mean time. Fuebaey (talk) 16:50, 4 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Please take general discussions on ITN images over to the talk page
Whenever this makes it to the main page, it should not replace Ali's picture in the template. The French Open happens every year, we only had one Muhammed Ali. — Coffee // have a cup // beans // 19:06, 4 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not sure that's a legitimate complaint I'm afraid. Once we do that sort of thing for Ali we open a box of worms. If we have decent pictures of the French Open winner(s), we use them, Wikipedia isn't a memorial, after all. The Rambling Man (talk) 19:20, 4 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I have to concur with Coffee. Ali's death is far more significant of a news item than this reoccurring sports event that barely makes the back pages of the newspapers here. - Floydianτ¢21:54, 4 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Well you're welcome to concur but the whole world does not revolve around boxing. Until Wikipedia becomes a memorial website, the image will be replaced as appropriate, cheers. The Rambling Man (talk) 22:05, 4 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
(edit conflict)I agree with TRM, the image used for ITN is always associated with the most recent blurb for which we have a suitable image. If you want to change that, make a proposal at Wikipedia talk:In the news that defines an alternative method of choosing which image to use. Until such a proposal gains consensus the current system will remain in place. Thryduulf (talk) 22:15, 4 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Who cares about a photo of Ali? *sarcasm* We are not memorial, so I don't mind a photo of a female tennis player replacing Ali. Also, support original blurb and then update after the men's single tournament. George Ho (talk) 00:03, 5 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Also, per ITN rules, arguments about ethics and morals may be debunked. They have been done before; I have done it before. Rebutters did that to me, so arguments about making tribute a top priority will be debunked and rebutted somehow, right? George Ho (talk) 00:07, 5 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry, I tried to say that arguments about commemorating a deceased person by holding a photo aren't sufficient enough to not switch images. I guess that came off in the confusing, ambiguous way. George Ho (talk) 08:27, 5 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose new image. We have IAR for this exact reason. Few people are impactful outside their field, as Cassius Clay did much more outside boxing than most people alive. That doesn't mean keep his image for a week, but definitely not for just a day. Nergaal (talk) 06:47, 5 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose regardless of issues of blurb or Ali image retention, the bold-linked article is not ready. Cited summaries of both finals are required. The Rambling Man (talk) 18:53, 5 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Blurb should mention Djokovic's Non-calendar year Grand Slam (rather than career Grand Slam) - he is the first male to hold all 4 Grand Slam singles' titles since 1969, and only the 3rd male in history. Adpete (talk) 23:36, 5 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
@98.23.91.118: because the article does not yet meet the quality standards required - there is virtually no prose in the article at all, let alone well-written and well-referenced prose. Thryduulf (talk) 22:45, 6 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Comment. I don't have time to update 2016 French Open myself, but as far as I can see, the 2016 French Open – Women's Singles and 2016 French Open – Men's Singles articles are updated, and the two individual player articles are updated (Garbiñe Muguruza and Novak Djokovic). It would be a pity if this item went stale and never went up. Is it possible to either: (a) put this item up and adjust the blurb to avoid mentioning the article that hasn't been updated and use the other four articles instead; or (b) put something up about Novak Djokovic winning the Career Grand Slam and Non-Calendar Grand Slam? The latter are both genuinely historic achievements. If option (b) required a new and separate nomination, I'll try and do that tonight, though if updating the 2016 French Open would be a better use of time, I can do that instead (might try and do that in the next 20 minutes or so). Carcharoth (talk) 05:43, 9 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
The following set of updates have been made since 6 June: added text. Is that sufficient? I have added a third blurb above, and a picture of Djokovic (he should really go up - Muguruza will almost certainly win more slams later in her career). OK, added picture link down here as the template doesn't seem to allow suggestions of alternate pictures: File:Novak Djokovic (19528970049).jpg. Carcharoth (talk) 06:13, 9 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Pinging Thryduulf and The Rambling Man to try and get timely attention to this update (details above). If there are still image and memorial issues, the Muhammad Ali image was added 4 June and the funeral procession and memorial will take place from 13:00 to 18:00 UTC on 10 June 2016 (i.e. tomorrow). I don't agree with keeping the image up there myself, but adding this for information. Carcharoth (talk) 06:23, 9 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Posting. I'll just bold players instead of tournament, the updates there are fine. Feel free to change the image. --Tone07:02, 9 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
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Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Support, most famous person on earth, by some accounts. this is one of the few natural deaths that absolutely should be in the news not just recent deaths.Mercurywoodrose (talk) 04:45, 4 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Support but hold, until article can be cleaned up. Currently sitting at a B-class article. At a minimum, we need to resolve the CN tags. Nakon04:49, 4 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Suggestion: I created this nomination so that a blurb would be ready to go, but I'd like to merge this with the below pre-death nomination, as support for a blurb appears to be overwhelming at this point. -Kudzu1 (talk) 04:49, 4 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I'm open to adding an image. Please let me know if you find any that would be acceptable for the main page. Thanks, Nakon05:36, 4 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Memorial - We've never done something like this, but in this particular case, I think it's appropriate. Let's freeze the Ali death blurb and photo at the top of ITN for a week or so. This was an extremely important individual and I think it would be fitting if he received treatment as such on the Wikipedia front page. --WaltCip (talk) 23:38, 4 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I can't agree with that. ITN (and Wikipedia generally) is not a memorial; it is an area for featuring content that it in the news. We have never done this before, even though we have had deaths of people at least as important as Ali (Mandela, for instance, strikes me as more important). The precedent could not be limited to Ali (nor should it). This would just beget more arguments over whether so-and-so deserves a memorial. Neljack (talk) 23:57, 4 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose memorial as that's not what Wikipedia in general or ITN in particular is for. We didn't do it for Thatcher, Mandela, Michael Jackson, David Bowie, Prince, Pope John Paul II or anyone else who could be argued to be at least as important as Ali, and we shouldn't start now. It will only cause unnecessary arguments about where the threshold should be and who meets it and who doesn't - Elizabeth II? Bhumibol Adulyadej? George H. W. Bush? Bill Gates? Recep Tayyip Erdoğan? 14th Dalai Lama? Pope Benedict XVI? Michael Jordan? Michael Schumacher? What if two people who meet the threshold die within a week of each other? What if there was a major world news story 6-days after their death - would that push them off the top spot? If so, what would the threshold for that be? Thryduulf (talk) 00:44, 5 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I see no need to discuss this in terms of a memorial. I would say that we should simply leave the image up as the blurb ages, unless we have more timely news and an image to replace it. μηδείς (talk) 19:13, 5 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, and that will happen imminently so that's why there's a furore about Ali's image disappearing, per MEMORIAL there's no issue with that at all. The Rambling Man (talk) 19:24, 5 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
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Support RD now, blurb on improvements The article is not in good shape, there's at least 4 citation needed tags, one section is tagged as outdated, and the section above it lacks citations on several paragraphs. Fixable, yes, so an RD posting in the short term is fine, but a blurb will need these fixed. --MASEM (t) 04:36, 4 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Items should not be posted to RD and then bumped up to blurb once they are up to snuff; they should be posted to RD/blurb or not at all. SpencerT♦C04:38, 4 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Support him being in main news, not just recent deaths. by some accounts, the most beloved person on earth, the most, easily the most famous. not merely equal to bowie and prince. equal to pope john paul 2Mercurywoodrose (talk) 04:44, 4 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Support blurb Olympic gold medal winner, champion, social activist, legendary figure not just in US but worldwide. Equal in stature to David Bowie and Prince, whom we ran blurbs on without question. Daniel Case (talk) 04:45, 4 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
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