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Please see the discussion '''[[Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Film#Upcoming Indian films|here]]''', regarding which categories are appropriate for articles about upcoming Indian films. [[User:Fortdj33|Fortdj33]] ([[User talk:Fortdj33|talk]]) 13:58, 25 October 2014 (UTC) |
Please see the discussion '''[[Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Film#Upcoming Indian films|here]]''', regarding which categories are appropriate for articles about upcoming Indian films. [[User:Fortdj33|Fortdj33]] ([[User talk:Fortdj33|talk]]) 13:58, 25 October 2014 (UTC) |
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== Category loops == |
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[[Wikipedia:Village pump (miscellaneous)#Category loops]] (version of [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Village_pump_(miscellaneous)&oldid=631047875#Category_loops 11:30, 25 October 2014]) has a discussion of category loops, and a link to [[User:Danilo.mac/Category loops]], where 200 category loops are listed. <br> |
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—[[User:Wavelength|Wavelength]] ([[User talk:Wavelength|talk]]) 14:33, 25 October 2014 (UTC) |
Revision as of 14:33, 25 October 2014
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Leaflet for Wikiproject Categories at Wikimania 2014
![](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/fe/Project_Leaflet_WikiProject_Medicine_back_and_front_v1.png/550px-Project_Leaflet_WikiProject_Medicine_back_and_front_v1.png)
Hi all,
My name is Adi Khajuria and I am helping out with Wikimania 2014 in London.
One of our initiatives is to create leaflets to increase the discoverability of various wikimedia projects, and showcase the breadth of activity within wikimedia. Any kind of project can have a physical paper leaflet designed - for free - as a tool to help recruit new contributors. These leaflets will be printed at Wikimania 2014, and the designs can be re-used in the future at other events and locations.
This is particularly aimed at highlighting less discoverable but successful projects, e.g:
• Active Wikiprojects: Wikiproject Medicine, WikiProject Video Games, Wikiproject Film
• Tech projects/Tools, which may be looking for either users or developers.
• Less known major projects: Wikinews, Wikidata, Wikivoyage, etc.
• Wiki Loves Parliaments, Wiki Loves Monuments, Wiki Loves ____
• Wikimedia thematic organisations, Wikiwomen’s Collaborative, The Signpost
The deadline for submissions is 1st July 2014
For more information or to sign up for one for your project, go to:
Project leaflets
Adikhajuria (talk) 17:04, 27 June 2014 (UTC)
Stub being content categorization?
Are stubby articles categorized as stubs considered a form of content categorization? See Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2014 July 5 for the discussion -- 65.94.171.126 (talk) 04:40, 7 July 2014 (UTC)
A cat question over at WP Help
Rather than repost here, could someone please help with Wikipedia:Help desk#Templates, navboxes, categories, and my utter, utter confusion? Many thanks, Anna Frodesiak (talk) 06:04, 8 July 2014 (UTC)
I need the opinion of members of this group, at the Cfd from July 18th about Category:People by ethnic or national origin. It is a rather elemental category, so I'd like additional review. Very view people are participating at Cfd, which is sad. Thanks very much! -- 068129201223129O9598127 (talk) 21:27, 19 July 2014 (UTC)
CfD nomination of Category:Categories by geographical location
![](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/28/Information.svg/40px-Information.svg.png)
Category:Categories by geographical location has been nominated for deletion, merging, or renaming. You are encouraged to join the discussion on the Categories for discussion page. CN1 (talk) 19:11, 25 July 2014 (UTC)
Removal of cats from cats related to books, films and games
There is a user - Marvin Delamo (talk · contribs) - who has been removing certain categories from category pages; they also seem to be removing category sort keys from those cats that remain. The cats concerned seem to be related to books, films and games. Is this part of some agreed scheme? --Redrose64 (talk) 07:32, 26 July 2014 (UTC)
- If the edits are all of the nature of this one, they don't appear constructive. All he's done is remove the sortkey from one and moved the other category from a more to less specific one. All their edits have been marked as minor and all of their edit summaries merely repeat the name of the edited page. So I'd say revert all their edits and warn them. postdlf (talk) 14:12, 26 July 2014 (UTC)
- (As I've done now...[1]) postdlf (talk) 15:11, 26 July 2014 (UTC)
After noting another account continuing the exact same pattern of category editing (marked as minor, edit summary just repeats the page title, cat sorting removed), in the same subject area and even to some of the same pages, I've blocked both; see also Alejandro-Delamo (talk · contribs). Can't say I've ever seen anyone move a category page into article space before.[2] Please everyone keep an eye out for more of the same, in the subject area of South American film categories. postdlf (talk) 17:44, 26 July 2014 (UTC)
Category:Shogi players
Hi,
I have a question regarding assigning categories to articles. In particular, I am interested in what kinds of things need to be considered when assigning Category:Shogi players to articles. Is it simply enough to show that a person plays shogi (e.g., as a hobby, etc.) or does the person have to derive some of their notability from shogi (e.g., as a professional shogi player, amateur champion, or author, etc.)?
Let me use the following two people as examples to help explain what I am figure out.
- Yoshiharu Habu is a professional shogi player who is arguably the greatest shogi player of all time. Almost all of his notability (in a Wikipedia sense) stems from shogi, so it makes perfect sense to assign Category:Japanese shogi players to his article. Habu, is also by chance, a very strong chess player. He has played in quite a few international tournaments with fairly good results and has been awarded the title of FIDE Master. Shogi is Habu's profession while chess is more of a hobby, but still his chess playing has received some coverage in various media sources. So, it seems appropriate to assign Category:Japanese chess players and Category:Chess FIDE Masters to his article.
- Garry Kasparov is a former World Chess Champion who is arguably the greatest chess player of all time. Much of his notability does indeed come from his chess playing, but he is also well-known as an author and politician, etc. Therefore, It makes perfect sense to assign any relevant categories related to chess, politics, Russia, etc. to his article. Kasparov, like quite a few other professional/amateur chess players, plays (has played) shogi (as well as other board games). He, however, doesn't seem to derive any of his notoriety from shogi other than as a curiosity: a former World Chess Champion who played a game of "Japanese Chess"[3]. It's not wrong to say that Kasparov plays shogi, but I am not sure if it is right to categorize him as "shogi player".
When would it be appropriate to assign Category:Shogi players to chess players such as Kasparov who may "play shogi" for fun as a hobby, maybe online or maybe in tournaments, and who may have received some minor coverage for doing so, but for the most part derive none of their notability (in a Wikipedia sense) as a "shogi player"?
Thanks in advance. - Marchjuly (talk) 07:05, 31 July 2014 (UTC)
- If you go up the category tree you get to Category:People in the games industry which says "This category is for people involved in the business of games, from manufacturer CEOs to designers to professional players." and the category above that which "classifies people by their notable ... hobbies" which I think means people who are notable because of a hobby (whether or not they are also notable for anything else) so Kasparov shouldn't (based on his current article) be categorized as a shogi player. The question to ask is "does this person's shogi playing make them notable?" - if the answer is yes then I would place the article in the category, if the answer is maybe then I would leave the article in the category if it's there already. If we categorized everyone by hobbies that don't make them notable then, for example, Category:Golfers would contain more articles about businessmen, lawyers etc than articles about golfers (which wouldn't help navigation). DexDor (talk) 19:04, 31 July 2014 (UTC)
- @DexDor: Thanks for the reply. Do you feel that Almira Skripchenko should be categorized as a "shogi player" according to your criteria? She plays shogi and this can be cited by sources, but she derives no notability from it as far as I can tell. Currently, there is no mention of shogi in her article. It is possible that something could be added at a later date, but I am not sure even if that would be enough to consider her a "shogi player". A discussion I had with another editor on Talk:Almira Skripchenko#Shogi has come to the conclusion that it would be OK to remove the category if there are no objections. Nobody has posted any, but I thought I just ask here for advice before doing anything. Thanks again. - Marchjuly (talk) 22:13, 31 July 2014 (UTC)
- If an article makes no mention of a subject (e.g. shogi) then it shouldn't be in a category for that subject. Note: just searching for the word "shogi" may not be sufficient; for example an article about a notable person in Tokyo would belong in a Japanese people category even if the word "Japan" doesn't appear in the text. DexDor (talk) 22:28, 31 July 2014 (UTC)
- I'm pretty sure that nothing currently in the article implies any association between Skripchenko and shogi. I think the editor who assigned that category just did so based on their RW knowledge of Skripchenko. I've discussed this with that editor on the article's talk page, and they have agreed that the category can be removed. I was just looking to see if WP:CATP had a specific policy regarding this kind of thing. Thanks again. - Marchjuly (talk) 00:51, 1 August 2014 (UTC)
- If an article makes no mention of a subject (e.g. shogi) then it shouldn't be in a category for that subject. Note: just searching for the word "shogi" may not be sufficient; for example an article about a notable person in Tokyo would belong in a Japanese people category even if the word "Japan" doesn't appear in the text. DexDor (talk) 22:28, 31 July 2014 (UTC)
- @DexDor: Thanks for the reply. Do you feel that Almira Skripchenko should be categorized as a "shogi player" according to your criteria? She plays shogi and this can be cited by sources, but she derives no notability from it as far as I can tell. Currently, there is no mention of shogi in her article. It is possible that something could be added at a later date, but I am not sure even if that would be enough to consider her a "shogi player". A discussion I had with another editor on Talk:Almira Skripchenko#Shogi has come to the conclusion that it would be OK to remove the category if there are no objections. Nobody has posted any, but I thought I just ask here for advice before doing anything. Thanks again. - Marchjuly (talk) 22:13, 31 July 2014 (UTC)
Create a BOT to alphabetize and organize categories automatically
As someone who has been doing this manually for years, I hereby dutifully beg of anyone who is technically proficient and knows how to create and run a bot that will:
- Automatically sort all Categories on each article and category page alphabetically;
- Create a uniform system for where to place categories on each article and category page that commence with numbers, such as years of birth/death, centuries, and any category that starts with a number/numeral.
Please see the centralized discussion at Wikipedia:Bot requests/Archive 61#Create a BOT to alphabetize and organize categories automatically. Thank you, IZAK (talk) 08:48, 4 August 2014 (UTC)
Discussion re-opened at VPP
Please see Wikipedia:Village pump (policy)/Archive 114#Create a BOT to alphabetize and organize categories automatically. Thank you, IZAK (talk) 22:38, 5 August 2014 (UTC)
Tech help required to improve categories
Please see Wikipedia:Village pump (policy)#CatVisor and User:Paradoctor/CatVisor#Planned features if you are willing and able to assist this innovative WP project move along it would be greatly appreciated. Thank you, IZAK (talk) 23:05, 12 August 2014 (UTC)
Landform categories, large and small
I have a question about how small and specific landform categories have to be before it's OCAT. Landforms include lakes, rivers, mountains, bays, etc. Within Category:Landforms of the United States by state, there are categories for each state as well as by-state categories for 19 different types of landform. For most states, landforms are further categorized by county, while there are also statewide categories for each type of landform. For example, Georgia has statewide categories for caves, hills, islands, etc. It also has a Category:Bodies of water of Georgia (U.S. state), within which are categories for lakes, rivers, etc. Within Category:Lakes of Georgia (U.S. state), there are 9 articles as well as a category for reservoirs that contains 43 more articles. Lake Seminole is in Category:Reservoirs in Georgia (U.S. state) as well as Category:Landforms of Seminole County, Georgia and Category:Landforms of Decatur County, Georgia. This is the pattern for most states I've sampled: specific landforms are categorized statewide, while landforms in general are categorized by county.
There are exceptions in the case of some larger categories for larger states. For example, caves and peninsulas of Florida have statewide categories, while Category:Lakes of Florida contains 59 articles as well as sub-categories for five of Florida's 67 counties. Those by-county lakes categories contain between 8 and 85 articles. Choosing Leon County at random, I found that none of the eight lakes articles in that county are also in the statewide Category:Lakes of Florida. Interestingly, none of those articles are also in Category:Landforms of Leon County, Florida; instead, that category contains Category:Lakes of Leon County, Florida, whereas in the other states I sampled, individual lakes articles are in the by-county landforms category, even in those cases where they're also in a by-county lakes category.
New York is another illustrative example, being a large and well-populated state. Category:Rivers of New York contains 206 articles as well as sub-categories for four of New York's 62 counties, those latter containing between 1 and 14 articles. I sampled the first five articles in Category:Rivers of Orange County, New York, and they're all in both that category as well as Category:Rivers of New York. Category:Lakes of New York contains 120 articles and no by-county categories. The reservoirs sub-category contains 65 articles as well as one sub-category for Westchester County with 10 articles. I checked the first four of those articles, and they're all in both Category:Reservoirs of Westchester County, New York as well as Category:Reservoirs in New York.
Maine is the example that brought this question to my attention. It's a rather small state (particularly as regards population), and yet it has the most extensive by-county categorization I've noticed--largely a result of widespread by-county categorization by one wikipedian about four years ago. For example, there are by-county lakes categories for 14 of Maine's 16 counties. Those categories contain 2-7 articles each, for a total of 68 articles. Only 29 of those articles are also categorized in the statewide Category:Lakes of Maine. An indefatigable WP categorist recently edited many articles on Maine lakes, adding them to the statewide category while also leaving them in the by-county category, but the wikipedian who had created the by-county categories undid many of those edits.
So my questions are:
- Most states have a landform categorization scheme in which landforms in general are categorized by county, while specific types of landforms are categorized statewide. Is there value in achieving standardization of this scheme in states that are not currently applying it?
- When one or a small number of counties have an especially large number of a particular type of landform (e.g. 65 articles in Category:Lakes of Polk County, Florida), should the articles in such categories also be categorized in the statewide category for that landform, which contains articles for that type of landform for most counties?
- If yes to the above, anyone have a rough opinion as to how many articles merits a by-county category?
- What do people think of an alternative to the above, in which the statewide category for that type of landform is made an allincluded category?
I pose these questions here because they strike me as having general policy-interpretation implications, rather than being limited in their interest specifically to landforms enthusiasts. I don't know whether this essay is authoritative, but its recommendations struck me as germane to this issue, and particularly to my second question: Wikipedia:Overcategorization/Intersection of location and occupation. Jbening (talk) 22:08, 9 September 2014 (UTC)
- A good start. WP:SUBCAT provides some general, but not definitive guidance in this area. The {{Non-diffusing subcategory}} template is rarely used as the concept itself may not be readily understood. And so arguments and edits and reverts. All included categories with its {{All included}} template is openly rejected by some editors who remove it from categories and undo any work that has been done to make an all included category. More arguments, edits, reverts. And the cutoff number of entries to make a category (for landforms or anything else) is not commonly agreed upon and so is just another subject of argument/edit/revert. with all this activity and confusion, it is little wonder that the category trees often display no coherent pattern. Hmains (talk) 03:16, 11 September 2014 (UTC)
Film project categorization
The film project appears to believe that a "consensus" there can override normal Wikipedia-wide categorization procedures, and parent (and grandparent) categories can be added to articles which already have child (or grandchild) cats on them. Thus, an article which already has Category:American Western (genre) films, which is a child of Category:American films by genre, is having Category:American films added to it, even though that category is the parent of the "American films by genre". My understanding is that this is not the normal procedure here. BMK (talk) 22:17, 15 September 2014 (UTC)
- I agree. I would like any category with a "For convenience, all ... are included in this category." to explain who this categorization is convenient for - it makes things less convenient for those who maintain categorization. Editors can use a tool to get a list of all the articles in a category (including subcats) - currently this category has 44143 articles. How is a category containing 20944 articles directly convenient for readers ? DexDor (talk) 05:33, 16 September 2014 (UTC)
- Non-diffusing categories are used in about 500 instances. Are they are all to be discussed here? -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 06:00, 16 September 2014 (UTC)
Request for opinions
I've requested opinions regarding the appropriate usage of categories when the verifiable information appears at a "sub-article". Discussion here. Thank you for your feedback! DonIago (talk) 13:01, 19 September 2014 (UTC)
Hello, category experts. Am I the only one who is bothered by the grammatical structure of this category name? Shouldn't it be "Commons category with local link different from that on Wikidata"? —Anne Delong (talk) 14:18, 29 September 2014 (UTC)
Of or In
With regards to the naming of Bishops (in the case I am looking into) by country, should the preposition be in or of. For example, at Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2014 October 1 we are discussing Category:American Anglican bishops (because it is a category by country not nationality), which has been proposed moved to Category:Anglican bishops in the United States. Should this be at Category:Anglican bishops of the United States (because the people may not physically be in the US presently, they may have just had a period of time where they were doing there bishoping there). Looking into Category:Bishops there is a mess of options, however Category:Italian bishops has a a slew of subcategories listed as Bishops of XXXX. Cheers, --kelapstick(bainuu) 12:03, 1 October 2014 (UTC)
Comment on the WikiProject X proposal
Hello there! As you may already know, most WikiProjects here on Wikipedia struggle to stay active after they've been founded. I believe there is a lot of potential for WikiProjects to facilitate collaboration across subject areas, so I have submitted a grant proposal with the Wikimedia Foundation for the "WikiProject X" project. WikiProject X will study what makes WikiProjects succeed in retaining editors and then design a prototype WikiProject system that will recruit contributors to WikiProjects and help them run effectively. Please review the proposal here and leave feedback. If you have any questions, you can ask on the proposal page or leave a message on my talk page. Thank you for your time! (Also, sorry about the posting mistake earlier. If someone already moved my message to the talk page, feel free to remove this posting.) Harej (talk) 22:47, 1 October 2014 (UTC)
How to respond when someone makes massive changes in categorization
3 weeks ago, a user moved the article States-Provincial to Provincial-Council (Netherlands), without any explanation. I reverted this because it:
- defied the previous discussion on Talk:States-Provincial;
- the new name was odd: with a bad hyphen between 'Provincial' and 'Council' (in the previous discussion I had proposed 'Provincial councils in the Netherlands'), the capitalisation of Council (suggesting it to be an official name, which it is not) and a needless qualifier 'Netherlands' (there is no article Provincial-Council).
I invited the user to reopen the discussion on the talk page, if s/he wanted it, and thought no more of it, but just today, I discovered that the user also changed the categorisation of provincial politicians in the same way. Now there is Category:Members of the Provincial-Council of the Netherlands (shouldn't 'council' be at least in plural, if the renaming was agreed upon??) with 12 subcategories for the 12 provinces, which also have been renamed. And the user moved all 95 mentioned politicians to the new categories. (To be fair, the same user was the person who created some of the original categories in the first place.)
A few days ago, blanked categories have also been tagged for speedy deletion, apparently by a user who only saw (how could s/he) that it was empty and did not see that this was the result of a bad move.
On the Dutch Wikipedia, changing the title of a category has to be discussed on the discussion page for categories. Individual articles are not allowed to be moved until the discussion has been closed. Those preposterous moves will be reverted, even if the category will go through at the end of the day. I wonder what the English Wikipedia policy is on this? And can all those moves only be reverted 'manually' (one by one), or is there an administrator who can do it quicker? Bever (talk) 23:09, 15 October 2014 (UTC)
- When it was proposed that the software be changed to give ordinary users the power to rename categories (assuming that's what you mean by "changing the title of a category") many experienced wikipedians pointed out that it would lead to problems like this, but WMF went ahead anyway - see Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Archive262#Category_pages_will_be_movable_soon. Has Dutch wp put a technical restriction in place to prevent undiscussed category renames? DexDor (talk) 05:30, 16 October 2014 (UTC)
- It seems that the user did not, technically, rename the categories, but instead created new categories (see for example this edit) and moved all articles to the new categories. So this would also have been possible in the past.
- But perhaps the new renaming option would encourage users to make more erroneous moves without proper discussion. So there has been some discussion indeed on the Dutch Wikipedia about restricting this new right to moderators (sysops), but no decision has been made yet. See nl:Wikipedia:Verzoekpagina voor moderatoren/Overige#Hernoemen van categorieën. Bever (talk) 02:56, 20 October 2014 (UTC)
Category intersection requires stricter categorization
How many (English) Wikipedia pages would you expect to find at the intersection of Category:Monarchy and Category:Geology ? A few maybe (e.g. members of royal families who were also notable as geologists).
How about at the intersection of all of Category:Monarchy, Category:Historical geology, Category:Geometric topology, Category:Veterinary medicine, Category:Epistemology of religion, Category:Museology, Category:Tourism, Category:Propaganda, Category:Astronomical dynamical systems and Category:Digital technology ? I.e. how many wp articles are about something that is a subtopic of all those topics ?
In fact, there are currently tens of thousands of pages at that intersection - one category alone having over 17000 pages. And yes, that category really is a subcategory of all 10 categories listed above (and many others) (as of 17-18 Oct 2014). The full structure is rather large to show here, but, for example, to see (one way) how Category:Tourism is a subcategory of Category:Geometric topology follow these dots .................. There are also many cases where the categorization is circular (e.g. Category:Ethnology and Category:Ethnicity).
Thus, (with the current category structure) a reasonable category intersection query can require a huge processing resource and then produce a long list of mostly irrelevant articles. No wonder that the category intersection tools are currently out of service ([4]).
If we are ever to get category intersection working well (if at all) then we need to be much stricter about enforcing the rule that "When making one category a subcategory of another, ensure that the members of the subcategory really can be expected (with possibly a few exceptions) to belong to the parent also.". It would also be very helpful if we had some automated way to identify categorization loops (which clearly means that something's gone wrong in the categorization).
Any comments or suggestions? DexDor (talk) 20:59, 18 October 2014 (UTC)
Reality shows, participants and overcategorization
I started a discussion at Wikipedia talk:OC#WP:PERFCAT and reality shows regarding reality show participants and overcategorization. Feel free to chime in. Thanks. Nymf (talk) 14:11, 24 October 2014 (UTC)
Upcoming Indian films
Please see the discussion here, regarding which categories are appropriate for articles about upcoming Indian films. Fortdj33 (talk) 13:58, 25 October 2014 (UTC)
Category loops
Wikipedia:Village pump (miscellaneous)#Category loops (version of 11:30, 25 October 2014) has a discussion of category loops, and a link to User:Danilo.mac/Category loops, where 200 category loops are listed.
—Wavelength (talk) 14:33, 25 October 2014 (UTC)