Gypsy Bare knuckle fighters
Hi guys, im Romany and from a bare knuckle back ground, I would like to give you more information on famous bare knuckle men such as Jimmy stockins, Bartley Gorman, Jonny Love, Darren Jackson, Henry Jackson, Mark Ripley. I have started to add some to the list and also those that are already on there make there own wiki page, any help would be grateful.Diamonddannyboy (talk) 21:51, 17 January 2008 (UTC) All my work has been deleted on Mark Ripley and Jonny Love,, can any one help...Diamonddannyboy (talk) 22:08, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
Articles for the Wikipedia 1.0 project
Hi, I'm a member of the Wikipedia:Version_1.0_Editorial_Team, which is looking to identify quality articles in Wikipedia for future publication on CD or paper. We recently began assessing using these criteria, and we are looking for A-class, B-class, and Good articles, with no POV or copyright problems. Can you recommend any suitable articles? Please post your suggestions here. Thanks a lot! Gflores Talk 17:40, 2 February 2006 (UTC)
- Floyd Mayweather Jr. –ArcTheLad 03:35, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
- is a biography of a boxer will do? if so, i'm suggesting the article Manny Pacquiao thanks and more power.RebSkii 19:31, 23 November 2006 (UTC)
new category: Category:Deaths due to injuries sustained in boxing
Following yesterday's death of Kevin Payne, a welterweight professional boxer who died from injuries sustained in a boxing bout, I wrote the bio article (a stub) about him and created a new category, since there wasn't one dealing with boxing deaths. -- Mareklug talk 22:17, 20 March 2006 (UTC)
For anyone who is interested in extending this category, the boxrec excyclopedia probably has the most extensive list of boxers who have died of injury from boxing. [1]
Participation
I didn't realize I was already participating. I accept even though it was after the fact. Maya Levy 07:09, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
New Record table
New record table template was made.
- example:Muhammad Ali's record is shown as
Number | Date | Result | Round | Method | Opponent | Nationality | Note |
---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
47 | October 30, 1974 | Win | 8R 2:58 | KO | George Foreman | USA | WBA & WBC World Heavyweight titlematch |
--Yappakoredesho 22:50, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
Personally I think a list of a fighters whole record is a little spacey and can be fixed by putting a Boxrec external link. Maya Levy 12:49, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
I totally agree. The listing out of the records is entirely unnecessary and amounts to a really sloppy looking article. For example, look at Oscar De La Hoya. The article is probably 3x longer than it needs to be, since one can just click the link to boxrec. And the work to maintain these records is unsustainable. Jackboogie 12:54, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
new category: category:Southpaw boxers
Seemed like a good idea. Pascal.Tesson 05:13, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
Suggestion for new category: category:National Golden Gloves Winners
I was thinking of creating a Golden Gloves category, but I'm not sure if people would get it confused w/the Gold Gloves in baseball or the New York tournament. Maya Levy 08:39, 21 September 2006 (UTC)
As you've pointed out in the category name, I think that the national golden gloves would stand out for boxing. This would distinguish it from any state level golden gloves tournaments or a golden glove in baseball.
WBA Disambiguation
I am not a member of the boxing project, but when I have some spare time I have a go at removing disambiguous links to WBA and many of them are for World Boxing Association, particularly within the Template:Championshiptitle. An example is Reggie Johnson.
Is there anything that can be done to cut down on the WBA disambiguous links in the future from this template? Pixie2000 20:46, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
National Titles
I was just editing some articles relating to boxers who hold or are going to challenge for the british heavyweight title. I was surprised to find that there isn't an article about this historic title already? Or perhaps there is but under a name that I couldn't think of. Initially I linked to British Heavyweight Championship but obviously this article isn't the one I was thinking of. British Heavyweight Title is not any better either. Anyone got any ideas?--Wikipediatastic 16:41, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
Permission to be part of this project
i'm asking permission to enter this article Boxing at the 2006 Asian Games to be part of this project. thanks alot and more power.RebSkii 19:40, 23 November 2006 (UTC)
Stablepedia
Beginning cross-post.
- See Wikipedia talk:Version 1.0 Editorial Team#Stablepedia. If you wish to comment, please comment there. ★MESSEDROCKER★ 02:31, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
End cross-post. Please do not comment more in this section.
Pictures and the Copyright confusion
I guess I'm going to fill my winter boredom by going through and putting the infobox's up and tagging upcoming fights for random boxer articles, but the one thing I still need help with is pictures to fill the boxes. I've only gotten one picture up before I stopped bothering, which was itself deleted before I managed to drag an Australian Admin to help sort it out. I still have no clue as to getting any pictures,promotional or otherwise, for boxers past the copyright freaks that roam wikipedia. Any help with that, maybe a simplified walk-through by someone more knowledgeable, would be greatly appreciated. Btl 06:45, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
infobox template
Thoughts on changing this to better represent boxing standards as is the case at BoxRec. Take a look at Template_talk:Infobox_Boxer and comment please. I don't want to start putting up the information only to have to change it later, and Weight, Style and the lack of Hometown really need to be rectified before any large strides can be made to upgrading the content on individual boxer's pages. Btl 07:31, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
I previously put a hometown listing on the template only to have it erased by someone else, later. The problem was that all of the existing fighters that had the infobox in it were left with a {{{hometown}}} mark making many looking empty . Maybe phasing it in as optional first should do the trick. Maya Levy 05:56, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
If any of you have came across this article, you'll know what a mess it is. I'd be grateful if anyone with an interest could take a look at the new heading I've added on the talk page today. Stu ’Bout ye! 09:36, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
Wikipedia Day Awards
Hello, all. It was initially my hope to try to have this done as part of Esperanza's proposal for an appreciation week to end on Wikipedia Day, January 15. However, several people have once again proposed the entirety of Esperanza for deletion, so that might not work. It was the intention of the Appreciation Week proposal to set aside a given time when the various individuals who have made significant, valuable contributions to the encyclopedia would be recognized and honored. I believe that, with some effort, this could still be done. My proposal is to, with luck, try to organize the various WikiProjects and other entities of wikipedia to take part in a larger celebrartion of its contributors to take place in January, probably beginning January 15, 2007. I have created yet another new subpage for myself (a weakness of mine, I'm afraid) at User talk:Badbilltucker/Appreciation Week where I would greatly appreciate any indications from the members of this project as to whether and how they might be willing and/or able to assist in recognizing the contributions of our editors. Thank you for your attention. Badbilltucker 19:01, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
Muhammad Ali nominated for U.S. Collaboration of the Week
Please vote for Muhammad Ali at Wikipedia:U.S. Wikipedians' notice board/USCOTW. Stevie is the man! Talk • Work 16:19, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
The Superfight
In 'The DVD' section it mentions that the only television appearance for this film was on ABC. I seem to recall seeing it on the CBS Late Late Movie (or similar name) around 1973. Anyone else?
Female boxers
I know female boxing is not very popular, but I was pretty disappointed to see the lack of female boxers in Wikipedia. Its an issue that needs some contributing Maya Levy 20:04, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
Hi, I strongly recommed this project to give your notabilty guidelines for a new notabilty proposal that I'm creating on my userpage, once it is completed, I will move to wikipedia namespace for the community to decide. Thanks Jaranda wat's sup 23:02, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
Nigel Benn v Chris Eubank
I'm new to the project, I've just written this page could it please be included in any list of fights or boxing rivalries please, thanks. 1fletch 14:06, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
Its a pretty good page, I really like the addition of the infobox on the side, I redirected it to Nigel Benn versus Chris Eubank to make it convienant for people searching for it. Maya Levy talk 17:29, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
Hometown listing on Template:Infobox_Boxer
I wanted to revisit the subject as seen on its talk page. Please revisit: Template talk:Infobox Boxer Maya Levy talk 02:51, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
Years in boxing
One of my big goals is to get boxing by years using both professional and amateur results/upcoming tournaments by year, similar to 2007 in basketball, and possibly using it as a guide. I also think accompanying a frozen version the list of current world boxing champions by the end of the year. It may need a big collaboration, although time is not on my side lately. Maya Levy talk 05:54, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
New template suggestion- Boxing fights template
Records before April 15, 1985 The War | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||
---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
|
I have a suggestion for a new template, which I entitled boxing fights template. It is to show the fighters records at the time of the fight, which belt(s) are on the line and to hopefully clear which fighter is champion or the challenger, or incase of a unification fight which fighter has what belt. I am open to any suggestions, additions, or comments about it. I put an example on the side and already put it on the Hagler/Hearns page. Note: this may be used for MMA fights as well. Maya Levy talk 05:44, 17 October 2007 (UTC)
- I like it... but if you're going to adapt it for MMA, what will go in the name area (MMA fights usually aren't titled). Also, I have an existing records template that can be used for boxers right out of the box, {{MMArecordbox}}. east.718 at 08:40, 10/17/2007 08:40, 17 October 2007 (UTC)
New template for boxers
Just letting everyone know that there's a new template attempting to unify a lot of the martial arts templates, and {{Infobox Boxer}} is one of them. Please leave comments at {{Infobox Martial artist}}. Thanks! east.718 at 13:12, 10/24/2007.
Guys the is a discussion going on the Talk:Orthodox stance about hte potential merger of the Orthodox stance and Orthodox (boxing) articles. Please can I have your thoughts. regards--Vintagekits 21:51, 28 October 2007 (UTC)
WBO
The WBO isn't recognised by IBHOF? I read articles of the major boxing organizations. It appears that only the WBA, WBC and IBF are being credited. FoxLad 22:43, 2 November 2007 (UTC)
No Jimmy Lennon Jr
I saw an article about his father, but there is surprisingly no articles about Jimmy Lennon Jr. Maya Levy talk 00:17, 7 December 2007 (UTC)
Created article of Fight Promoter University
thanks for any help Armyguy11 (talk) 07:59, 10 December 2007 (UTC)
Created article of Baby Arizmendi
Do I become a member of WikiProjectBoxing now that I have helped, with the recreattion of Baby Arizmendi? Toolazy21 (talk) 16:38, 12 January 2008 (UTC)
Phil Martin
Hi. A head up that an article on Phil Martin, a British professional light-heavyweight boxer of the 1970s is up for AfD. The article is badly in need of a rewrite too. --Malcolmxl5 (talk) 00:11, 3 February 2008 (UTC)
I reverted a heap of IP vandalism there today while investigating an unrelated situation, found some additional changes that have been made, but needs a subject expert to determine whether they are fixing mistakes or introducing errors (my expertise is Australian geography and politics, not boxing :P) so if someone could look at the diff I presented on the Talk:Ricky Hatton talk page, that would be great. If semi protection is needed drop a note on my talk page. Orderinchaos 13:08, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
Question
Who is the project leader for WikiProject Boxing? I am interested in creating an article on a fight trilogy.--Jedi Kasra (talk) 19:37, 9 March 2008 (UTC)
- There is no leader, just members. If you got the citations? go forth and create. GoodDay (talk) 21:24, 9 March 2008 (UTC)
- O.K. then. I am interested in creating an article on the Bowe vs. Holyfield trilogy. Should I go ahead and run with that or should I create seperate article for each fight?--Jedi Kasra (talk) 06:30, 10 March 2008 (UTC)
- O.K. How do I create a sub-page that links to my page, so that I can work on it, for example if you or another user can tell me how to do it, I'll be calling it, "User:Jedi Kasra/Project Real Deal vs. Big Daddy". Any cooperation would be appreciated.--Jedi Kasra (talk) 20:35, 10 March 2008 (UTC)
- O.K. I have created a sub-page entitled User:Jedi Kasra/Project "Real Deal vs. Big Daddy I-III". If anyone would like to participate please leave me a message on my talk page. Reliable sources, free images, etc. are needed. If I put something on there that is not correct, feel free to correct it, then tell me.--Jedi Kasra (talk) 05:02, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
Help request: GA backlog
Hello. There has been a large backlog at the Good Article Nominations page for a while, and some articles wait up to 50 days for a review. Since most of my editing is in the Sports and Recreation category, that is the area that I am currently focusing on. To try to cut down on the backlog, I'm approaching projects with the request that members from that project review two specific articles over the next week. My request to WikiProject Boxing is to try to find time to review Skip Holtz and Anfield. If these are already reviewed by someone else or you have time for another review (or you'd rather review something else altogether), it would be great if you could help out with another article. Of course, this is purely voluntary. If you could help, though, it would help out a lot and be greatly appreciated. The basic instructions for reviewing articles is found at WP:GAN and the criteria is found at WP:WIAGA. I recently began reviewing articles, and I've found it fairly enjoyable and I've learned a lot about how to write high quality articles. Best wishes, GaryColemanFan (talk) 17:42, 24 March 2008 (UTC)
Infoboxes.
I recently discovered on José Luis Ramírez page that there was no information box there, so I went and added it to his article. I just wanna ask, do all Boxers past and present need these on their article? Dan the Man1983 (talk) 22:39, 24 March 2008 (UTC)
- I don't think they need to as such, they're just a way of visually presenting the information which is easier on the eye - I certainly add them to articles I come across without them... Jimbo[online] 22:39, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
Identity of IBO Middleweight Champion
Who currently holds this title? - Raymond Joval or Daniel Geale. -- GoodDay (talk) 19:12, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
Mike Tyson
Does anyone know where Mike Tyson was residing the time of the Lennox Lewis vs. Mike Tyson fight on June 8, 2002? --Jimbo[online] 19:36, 25 April 2008 (UTC)
Ricky Hatton
Can some of you guys help to keep an eye on the Ricky Hatton article? It's a frequent target for vandalism and is in need of some verification. Thanks, --Jza84 | Talk 12:40, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
- Hi, I've got my eye on the article too. I nominated it for semi-protection in order to stop the IP abuse. --Jimbo[online] 12:45, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
I am aiming to nominate this article for GA and to be a FA on 21 June. If you can suggest any improvements to the article please let me know.--Vintagekits (talk) 12:45, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
Articles flagged for cleanup
Currently, 975 articles are assigned to this project, of which 189, or 19.4%, are flagged for cleanup of some sort. (Data as of 14 July 2008.) Are you interested in finding out more? I am offering to generate cleanup to-do lists on a project or work group level. See User:B. Wolterding/Cleanup listings for details. More than 150 projects and work groups have already subscribed, and adding a subscription for yours is easy - just place a template on your project page.
If you want to respond to this canned message, please do so at my user talk page; I'm not watching this page. --B. Wolterding (talk) 17:09, 28 July 2008 (UTC)
Guys I've nominated the above article for deletion, simpe because in my opiion its of no real use, its too big and the category systems does pretty much the same job (except better!) - to have your say one way or the other go here. regards --Vintagekits (talk) 15:10, 16 August 2008 (UTC)
Clinton Woods
Hi, I have cleaned up this article could you have a look and see what you think. Thanks Notjamesbond —Preceding unsigned comment added by Notjamesbond (talk • contribs) 09:23, 26 September 2008 (UTC)
Inconsistancies
Hiya Project members. There's some Boxing bio articles not coordinating with the List of champions articles. For example, what's Joe Calzaghe's status in the super-middleweight division? GoodDay (talk) 17:27, 26 October 2008 (UTC)
Hi, he's given up all his belts including the WBO and is now only the Ring Magazine champion although if he's not going to fight at super middle anymore I can't see how he can still lay claim to that one. Notjamesbond (talk) 19:36, 26 October 2008 (UTC)
Undefeated boxers
After watching the Calzaghe fight the other night I got to thinking, how many other boxers have gone undefeated throughout their pro careers? My knowledge of boxing isn't that extensive, and the only other I could think of was Rocky Marciano. Are there any more? If there are what do people think to the idea of creating a list or category on Wikipedia which allows easy navigation between said fighters? I await your feedback guys. Simon KHFC (talk) 01:12, 10 November 2008 (UTC)
- Joe Mesi? He never made it past #1 Contender but he retired undefeated. Well, if you don't count his loss for New York State Senate this year.--CastAStone//₵₳$↑₳₴₮ʘ№€ 05:49, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
- Champions? Jack McAuliffe (officially), Marciano, Ji Won Kim, Ricardo Lopez, Sven Ottke and *Floyd Mayweather, Jr. with Iván Calderón looking like the next probable contender. - Caribbean~H.Q. 07:51, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
- Champions only I think, many people retire after a few fights being undefeated including a friend of mine Robbie Murray. But a champion that was undefeated was Terry Marsh.--Vintagekits (talk) 12:11, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
- Champions? Jack McAuliffe (officially), Marciano, Ji Won Kim, Ricardo Lopez, Sven Ottke and *Floyd Mayweather, Jr. with Iván Calderón looking like the next probable contender. - Caribbean~H.Q. 07:51, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
British heavyweight boxing champion in period 30 April 1926 - 16 November 1931
I noticed the List of British heavyweight boxing champions lacks information regarding who hold the title in the period between 30 April 1926 and 16 November 1931. Why this information was omitted and what's the story behind it? I know some rumors about boxing champion in the year 1928 who isn’t on the list, but maybe you could provide me with reliable information about what happened. Thanks --Jancsi03 (talk) 15:01, 28 November 2008 (UTC)
Overwhelming vandalisms of Nikolai Valuev & Evander Holyfield
Are there any Project members, brave enough to sort those articles out? GoodDay (talk) 00:01, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
Merge proposal
I am informing this project that I have suggested merging supercard, undercard, and main event into card (sports) because some/all of those articles may be used by you all. The conversation is taking place at Talk:Card (sports). Nikki♥311 01:39, 14 January 2009 (UTC)
Nationalities
Caribbean H.Q. ordered a discussion about the flags that should be used in display for the boxers. I think we should strictly follow BoxRec for the nationalities. claudevsq (talk) 04:23, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
- Its more of a suggestion, adminship has never made it into my head ;-) But we certainly need to establish a consensus to kill the edit warring. - Caribbean~H.Q. 07:38, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
- Well I am glad we are going to have a calm and rational discussion about it because I and others have been trying to bottom out this issue for a long time. To get some background please see this, this and this conversation.--Vintagekits (talk) 12:39, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
I think Boxrec is excellent to a point but it is not entirely accurate with regard to national association. A lot of boxers are born in one country but are based in another and therefore associate with both. One example of where following Boxrec could cause problems is in the case of John Duddy who was born in Northern Ireland (and so shows the flag of the UK) yet he is based in the USA and strongly associates himself with Ireland so much so that even Boxing News the trade magazine don't include him within their British ratings. Another example would be Howard Eastman who was born in Guyana and lives in the UK, he shows the flag of the UK but he is the current Guyanese champion, he therefore associates with both. Edit warring is highly frustrating but I think editors need to show restraint and reason when warring over nationality there is after all no reason why a number of flags can't be used on boxer profiles. Notjamesbond (talk) 11:31, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
- Point of order - before I lay out my extensive thoughts on this issue I we need to raise this point or this discussion is pretty redundant. So, if Claude thinks "we should strictly follow BoxRec for the nationalities" can you please explain clearly what BoxRec's criteria is for designating nationality. --Vintagekits (talk) 12:00, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
- Sorry, but I think only BoxRec could answer this question... I may be a member of the Ring Rating's advisory panel, but I don't know how BoxRec works... I think we should rather use the Great Britain flag instead of the english one etc. But that's my point of view, let's hear from others, too... claudevsq (talk) 13:26, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
- Well if you cant tell us what rational BoxRec use then you hardly expect us to run with that.
- The owner of BoxRec, John Sheppard, is notoriously anti Irish and is allegedly a memeber of the BNP. He lists boxers nationality anyway he decides and has made that very clear.
- For example Francesco Pianeta, both his parents are Italian, they emigrated to Germany when he was six, he grew up and still lives in Germany. He holds his Italian roots close to him for those obvious reasons, and he is listed as Italian. Michael Gomez who was born and brought up in Ireland until the age of nine, they emigrated to Britain when he was nine, he has lived there ever since. He holds his Irish roots close to him for those obvious reasons, and he is listed as British.
- Then we have the John Duddy situation, which is broader really issue than just Duddy and really is mirrored for all Irish boxers from Northern Ireland. Duddy is born and brought up Derry, Northern Ireland. People from the north have always been entitle to and Irish (RoI) passport from the creation of the country under Articles 2 and 3 of its constitution, this was then amended by agreement under the Good Friday Agreement (GFA) when both the British's and Irish governments agreed that people from Northern Ireland's nationality would be treated differently to England, Wales and Scotland in that they could be recognised as British, Irish or both - and hold passports to that effect. Duddy holds an Irish passport - this has been confirmed to Boxrec by Team Duddy. Duddy is listed as British.
- Its an issue of consistency in the record keeping. All boxers should be treated equally.
- The current Boxrec listings seem inconsistent at times:
- Arthur Abraham - Listed as German (Born in Armenia, took German citizenship, carries German passport)
- Khoren Gevor - Listed as Armenian (Born in Armenia, lives in Germany, carries German passport)
- Alexander Abraham - Listed as Armenian (Born in Armenia, lives in Germany, carries Armenian passport)
- Lennox Lewis - Listed as British (has dual Canadian/British citizenship) - Interestingly, Lewis also learned boxing in Canada from the age of 12 - and the country where a boxer learned to box is one of the criteria attributed to Boxrec for listing 'nationality'.
- John Duddy - Listed as British (carries Irish passport)
- Oleg Maskaev - Listed as Russian (Born in Kazakhstan, gained US citizenship in 2004, carries US/Russian passports)
- Sinan Samil Sam - Listed as Turkish (Born and raised in Germany, lives in Germany)
- Luan Krasniqi - Listed as German (Born in Kosovo, lives in Germany)
- Marco Huck - Listed As German (Born in Serbia/Montenegro, lived in Germany from the age of 9)
- The current Boxrec listings seem inconsistent at times:
- I could go one but you get the point.--Vintagekits (talk) 13:42, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
- After reading the discussion and related threads I would say that Boxrec should be used as a guide to nationality only but should not be treated as an authoritative source in all cases. The examples highlighted above are interesting and only serve to highlight to me the need for the recognition of dual nationality on boxer profiles. Arthur Abraham is a classic case, as I see it, he should be listed alongside the flags of both Armenia and Germany. Having just the one nationality seems, at times, to be too simplistic.
- I could go one but you get the point.--Vintagekits (talk) 13:42, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
- Where this discussion seems to divide most opinion is in regard to how boxers from Northern Ireland should be defined! There are simply no easy solutions when discussing this and each boxer in my view should be treated on their own merits. I'll give a few examples of what I mean:
- -John Duddy - Born in Northern Ireland, but refers to himself as Irish. As a professional he has never competed for the British title (and I'm sure he would have won it) and has never competed in mainland Britain. The Irish Tri-colour seems the most appropriate flag.
- -Brian Magee - Born in Northern Ireland and competed as an amateur for Ireland. Magee has fought most of his career in the UK and is the current British title holder. He has also challenged for two previous British titles as well as the commonwealth. As the current British champion he seems to associate himself with both countries and so both flags seems appropriate.
- -Tyson Fury - Interesting one this! Tyson was born in Manchester yet claims Irish ancestry via his grandparents. When he failed to be picked as the UK's representative for the Olympics he tried to gain qualification via his Irish ancestry. This route failed however when he was unable to provide documented evidence as to his claim. For Tyson the Union Flag seems to be most appropriate. In saying that however, he himself has walked into the ring for his last two fights wearing both the Union Flag and the Irish Tri-Colour. This act itself has proved how tricky national identification can be because he clearly associates himself with both flags and so I would also have no objection to seeing the two flags sitting side by side on his profile. Notjamesbond (talk) 14:22, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
- Yeah, I think we are getting to the crux of the matter and you have hit the nail of the head NJB and you have outlined many of thw issues that could cause dispute. However, I would say that merely fighting for a British title as a pro wouldnt necessarily mean that a boxer considers themselves British. Boxing is much more popular in the "nationalist" community, for a variety of reasons. And the nationialist community general consider themselves Irish and are entitled to an Irish passport automatically - for example Martin Rogan, Paul McCloskey and Eamonn Magee all of whom clearly identify as Irish but have fought for a British or Commonwealth title in order to progress their career.
- Also just because Magee (Brian) fought in Britiain wouldnt suggest that he considers himself British either, Vinny Feeney and Francie Barrett fought nearly all their fights in the UK but were Irish - the Irish professional game has only really matured in the last four or five years and before that most boxers had to go to Britain or the US to progress their career. If you look at my Irish P4P list then of the 9 Ulster fighters only 1 would class themselves as British instead of Irish - that being Neil Sinclair.
- As for the rest of the UK, I think we should go down "the Ring" magazines route and list boxers by Constituent country route - i.e. Joe Calzaghe as Welsh, Alex Arthur as Scottish and Kevin Mitchell as English.
- And then we have the Puerto Rico sitiuation which is technically within the United States and I think they carry US passports but I wouldnt like to see them listed as American. CHQ can comment further on that.--Vintagekits (talk) 14:36, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
- -John Duddy - Born in Northern Ireland, but refers to himself as Irish. As a professional he has never competed for the British title (and I'm sure he would have won it) and has never competed in mainland Britain. The Irish Tri-colour seems the most appropriate flag.
- Hi, its a fair point about fighting for the British title in order to further a fighters career and I agree that, that in itself does not confer nationality. With regard to Puerto Rico I too do not think they should be listed as American because Puerto Rico is not a state within the Union but a self governing territory.
- As for the British fighters I don't have a problem with them being listed under constituent flags but nor do I have a problem with the flag of the UK being used.
- With regard to Northern Ireland how about just using the flag of Ulster to represent a boxer from within that region? the flag could then be combined with the flag of the country to whom the fighter associates, for example:
- Just a thought but in this way we are clearly identifying the region of origin (Ulster) followed by the country of association (UK or Ireland) Notjamesbond (talk) 15:59, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
- Have you ever read List of Northern Irish flags and all the edit wars regarding the ulster flags, or flags in general. I would just not use flags at all. See also the flag manual of style and current practice with (almost) all infoboxes. Garion96 (talk) 11:27, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
- Well the edit wars are over the Ulster Banner and not the Ulster Flag, but yes you have a point. Also the Ulster Flag does not legally have any basis and is more of a traditional flag then anything. Its a tough one.--Vintagekits (talk) 12:49, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
- Hi, have just read the MOS:FLAG and this seems to answer all the questions particularly with regarding sporting persons and how they are identified Notjamesbond (talk) 09:14, 20 January 2009 (UTC)
- Well the edit wars are over the Ulster Banner and not the Ulster Flag, but yes you have a point. Also the Ulster Flag does not legally have any basis and is more of a traditional flag then anything. Its a tough one.--Vintagekits (talk) 12:49, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
- Have you ever read List of Northern Irish flags and all the edit wars regarding the ulster flags, or flags in general. I would just not use flags at all. See also the flag manual of style and current practice with (almost) all infoboxes. Garion96 (talk) 11:27, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
- Just a thought but in this way we are clearly identifying the region of origin (Ulster) followed by the country of association (UK or Ireland) Notjamesbond (talk) 15:59, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
- Use of flags for non-sovereign states and nations
The exact definition of a "state", "nation" or "country" is often politically divisive and can result in debates over the choice of flag. For example, England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland are referred to by the British government as "countries" within the United Kingdom [1]; the Canadian government recently recognised the Québécois as "a nation within a united Canada";[2] and the United States recognizes many Native American tribal groupings as semi-independent "nations". Some people may feel stronger identification with such entities than with the wider state of which they are a citizen, and editors sometimes choose, for example, to use an English flag rather than a British one. Such choices can cause debates, or can sometimes mislead if the editor's own political bias is the motivation for the choice, and does not represent the views of the article subject.
In general, if a flag is felt to be necessary, it should be that of the sovereign state (e.g. the United States of America or Canada) not of a subnational entity, even if that entity is sometimes considered a "nation" or "country" in its own right. This is partly for the sake of consistency across Wikipedia, but also because a person's legal citizenship is verifiable, whereas "nationality" within a country can be porous, indeterminate and shifting. An English person's passport describes them as a "British citizen", for example, not "English"; being English is a matter of self-identification, not a verifiable legality in most cases. Many editors, however, feel that the UK's subnations in particular are an exception, most especially in sporting contexts, and disputes are likely to arise if this sovereign state maxim is enforced in articles on subnational British topics. (See: MOS:FLAG. claudevsq (talk) 19:44, 20 January 2009 (UTC)