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... is coming up in January 2022. I expect it will be widely celebrated in India. This page as a result will receive much more drive-by attention than it does now. Please keep an eye on this page. {{ping|DaxServer|Martin of Sheffield|RegentsPark|Vanamonde93|SpacemanSpiff|Kautilya3|Graham Beards}} I will try to rewrite the long-promised sections 3 to the end in the next few months. I will then rewrite and shorten the lead. Best, [[User:Fowler&fowler|<span style="color:#B8860B">Fowler&fowler</span>]][[User talk:Fowler&fowler|<span style="color:#708090">«Talk»</span>]] 14:04, 30 October 2021 (UTC) |
... is coming up in January 2022. I expect it will be widely celebrated in India. This page as a result will receive much more drive-by attention than it does now. Please keep an eye on this page. {{ping|DaxServer|Martin of Sheffield|RegentsPark|Vanamonde93|SpacemanSpiff|Kautilya3|Graham Beards}} I will try to rewrite the long-promised sections 3 to the end in the next few months. I will then rewrite and shorten the lead. Best, [[User:Fowler&fowler|<span style="color:#B8860B">Fowler&fowler</span>]][[User talk:Fowler&fowler|<span style="color:#708090">«Talk»</span>]] 14:04, 30 October 2021 (UTC) |
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== Editing lead. == |
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The lead of this article is too wordy and doesn't seem like a typical lead on Wikipedia. Rather than introducing the subject, the lead is giving conclusions on his lifework. Also, it is too wordy (almost 50 words in the first sentence) and hence the readability is compromised. I tried to rephrase it and add some details that actually introduce the subject but :{{ping|Fowler&fowler}} is reverting the changes. Need your opinion. [[User:Akshaypatill|Akshaypatill]] ([[User talk:Akshaypatill|talk]]) 18:11, 30 October 2021 (UTC) |
Revision as of 18:11, 30 October 2021
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Bose was a member of Fitzwilliam House at Cambridge
The present Fitzwilliam College at Cambridge commenced as "Fitzwilliam House" in 1869 "as a non-collegiate institution, providing Cambridge education to undergraduates who were unable to afford membership of a college. Teaching was initially organized from a handsome house opposite the Fitzwilliam Museum." SC Bose was affiliated with it in his Cambridge experience. How do I know? I learnt it when I was myself a member of Fitzwilliam in 1976 before I moved to Corpus Christi College in 1978. Subroto Roy — Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.142.125.66 (talk) 11:36, 8 June 2021 (UTC)
Semi-protected edit request on 18 August 2021
Date of death anniversary-16th September 1985 2402:8100:23C3:7307:8216:AC66:D92E:A68B (talk) 16:06, 18 August 2021 (UTC)
- Not done Date of death is given by scholarly sources as 18 August 1945. Martin of Sheffield (talk) 16:18, 18 August 2021 (UTC)
Is it a good idea to nominate this article for Good article status?
This article, as I look at it further, looks like a promising candidate for a good article, maybe even a featured article. But I don't think just plainly putting a nomination in the Good article list will help it become a good article. So, what do I need to do to help improve this? TootsieRollsAddict (talk) 14:16, 23 September 2021 (UTC)
- This is the biography of a controversial Indian nationalist. There are a lot of sources, and finding the happy medium (of consensus) there is very tricky. I've been puttering. I've got through the lead (which I wrote long ago); the first two sections, which are recent; and the Death of SCB (which also I wrote long ago). It will take time (say at least a couple of months more) for me to get all the information there. But if you want, you could propose Death of Subhas Chandra Bose for GA. But a proper lead and conclusion will need to be written for that. This article though will take time. Otherwise, GA or even FA is not such a great idea for such articles. The people at FAC are hardly going to know more about the topic than the people do at WT:INDIA. In my opinion, such articles can't be rushed through. Of course, you are your own person. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 15:29, 23 September 2021 (UTC)
- I agree with F&f. I watched a lot of content disputes and they need to be settled upon first. — DaxServer (talk to me) 17:31, 23 September 2021 (UTC)
- Probably not. The constant arguing over his death probably means that we'd have to sit someone at the gate virtually 24/7. Britmax (talk) 17:38, 23 September 2021 (UTC)
- This was just what I expected. I did a little copyediting of the article (i.e. improving the grammar and all, which is what I specialize in), and as far as I can tell, this article has been very stable recently. However, I am still not exactly too sure about what to improve, or what new claims to make here. I am open to any suggestions. TootsieRollsAddict (talk) 04:35, 24 September 2021 (UTC)
- @TootsieRollsAddict: Thank you for your edits and for paying scrupulous attention to the article's details. Some edits were very helpful. Some others, however, have changed the meaning of the sentences (somewhat). Consider this diff):
- You've changed, "Subhas Bose was born into wealth and privilege in a large Bengali family in Orissa during the high noon of the British Raj." to "Subhas Bose was born into wealth and privilege in a large Bengali family in Orissa during the peak years of the British Raj."
- "high noon" has a slightly more general figurative meaning than "peak years." It can mean the period in which the Raj flourished; it can also mean crucial or pivotal years, on which the fate of the Raj hinged, or after which took an ominous turn. It is an expression often used in the literature for the late 19th-century Raj years. Granted, it is colloquial, mystifying to an uninitiated reader, and a better alternative is required ...
- You've changed, "his teenage and young adult years were interspersed with brilliant academic success, oversize religious yearning, and stark rebellion against authority," to "his teenage and young adult years were interspersed with brilliant academic success, oversized religious yearning, and stark rebellion against authority,"
- "Oversize," which is slightly later usage than "oversized," is used more often these days in figurative contexts (e.g. extravagant) and "oversized" more for literal size (e.g. t-shirts).
- You've changed "He was also rusticated from the University of Calcutta, but after reinstatement 18 months later he managed to study blamelessly and excel academically." to "He was also rusticated from the University of Calcutta, but after reinstatement 18 months later he managed to somehow study there and excelled academically."
- He was reinstated, so there was no legal obstacle to his studying there. You have needlessly editorialized. "Blamelessly" means "faultlessly," i.e. causing no further offense. "Somehow" is not needed. You also changed a sentence with two instances of the to-infinitive ("to study and (to) excel") to one infinitive and one past simple ("to study and excelled")
- You've changed, "Returning to India in 1921 to join the nationalist movement led by Mahatma Gandhi and the Indian National Congress, Bose at first worked with C. R. Das in Bengal. He flowered under Das's mentorship." to "Returning to India in 1921 to join the nationalist movement led by Mahatma Gandhi and the Indian National Congress, Bose at first worked with C. R. Das in Bengal. and flowered under his mentorship."
- (The typo after Bengal is entirely understandable.) The standalone sentence "He flowered under Das's mentorship." emphasizes the importance of that period in Bose's biography. When you string it at the end of a sentence, it reduces the emphasis.
- You have changed, "He then followed Jawaharlal Nehru to leadership in a group within the Congress. The group was younger, less keen on constitutional reform, and more open to socialism. Bose rose precociously to become Congress president in 1938." to "He then followed Jawaharlal Nehru to leadership in a group within the Congress. The group was younger, less keen on constitutional reform, and more open to socialism, rising precociously to become Congress president in 1938."
- I understand that this might have happened because of the long "efn" note in the middle and I apologize for that, but a participial phrase (with adverbial meaning) usually comes after a sentence fragment that semantically leads to it, i.e. "X hit the books that year, improving precociously to win a college scholarship." There is no real connect between being open to Socialism and rising precociously, besides it is not clear who rose.
- Your focus on the details is very welcome and I look forward to it. I hope you don't take this the wrong way, but may I request that before making significant changes in the portions of the article that are halfway complete (i.e. Lead, Early Life, 1921–1932: Indian National Congress, and Death of SCB) you propose your edits on the talk page? Again, your contribution is very welcome. Best regards, Fowler&fowler«Talk» 15:00, 24 September 2021 (UTC)
- @TootsieRollsAddict: Thank you for your edits and for paying scrupulous attention to the article's details. Some edits were very helpful. Some others, however, have changed the meaning of the sentences (somewhat). Consider this diff):
- This was just what I expected. I did a little copyediting of the article (i.e. improving the grammar and all, which is what I specialize in), and as far as I can tell, this article has been very stable recently. However, I am still not exactly too sure about what to improve, or what new claims to make here. I am open to any suggestions. TootsieRollsAddict (talk) 04:35, 24 September 2021 (UTC)
- Probably not. The constant arguing over his death probably means that we'd have to sit someone at the gate virtually 24/7. Britmax (talk) 17:38, 23 September 2021 (UTC)
- I agree with F&f. I watched a lot of content disputes and they need to be settled upon first. — DaxServer (talk to me) 17:31, 23 September 2021 (UTC)
Fancy lead
The introduction of the article should be reconstructed as to Wikipedia standards. The current one is too fancy for Wikipedia. Phrases like "hero" or "troubled legacy" can wait in subsequent sections.
And moreover, Bose's legacy is not troubled in real sense, he is revered as an unquestionable positive figure. It is only among the education intelligentsia that his ethics are challenged. The mass public notion of India has no problem with his nexus with Nazi Germany. I think this information is relevant is writing the revised lead section. Appu (talk) 05:20, 7 October 2021 (UTC)
- The reliable sources are cited in the lead. It has some of the great historians of modern India. "defiant patriotism" and "trouble legacy" are their very words. Please read WP:SOURCETYPES And WP:SCHOLARSHIP. His popular reputation in India is irrelevant for Wikipedia. Best regards, Fowler&fowler«Talk» 18:37, 7 October 2021 (UTC)
Semi-protected edit request on 20 October 2021
Some Grammer mistakes on biography 202.142.121.148 (talk) 15:50, 20 October 2021 (UTC)
- Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 16:32, 20 October 2021 (UTC)
Bose's 125th ...
... is coming up in January 2022. I expect it will be widely celebrated in India. This page as a result will receive much more drive-by attention than it does now. Please keep an eye on this page. @DaxServer, Martin of Sheffield, RegentsPark, Vanamonde93, SpacemanSpiff, Kautilya3, and Graham Beards: I will try to rewrite the long-promised sections 3 to the end in the next few months. I will then rewrite and shorten the lead. Best, Fowler&fowler«Talk» 14:04, 30 October 2021 (UTC)
Editing lead.
The lead of this article is too wordy and doesn't seem like a typical lead on Wikipedia. Rather than introducing the subject, the lead is giving conclusions on his lifework. Also, it is too wordy (almost 50 words in the first sentence) and hence the readability is compromised. I tried to rephrase it and add some details that actually introduce the subject but :@Fowler&fowler: is reverting the changes. Need your opinion. Akshaypatill (talk) 18:11, 30 October 2021 (UTC)