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:::::The [https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-63550237 BBC], [https://www.vox.com/politics/2023/2/23/23611828/2024-republican-presidential-candidates-trump-desantis Vox] and maybe [https://www.axios.com/2023/05/24/us-president-elections-2024-candidates Axios] considered both of them as "major" |
:::::The [https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-63550237 BBC], [https://www.vox.com/politics/2023/2/23/23611828/2024-republican-presidential-candidates-trump-desantis Vox] and maybe [https://www.axios.com/2023/05/24/us-president-elections-2024-candidates Axios] considered both of them as "major" |
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:::::[https://www.cnn.com/election/2024/presidential-candidates CNN], [https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2024-elections/presidential-candidates-tracker NBC News] and the [https://apnews.com/article/2024-presidential-candidates-who-is-running-e89fbfee94e7e7980594a9ce3994fec7 Associated Press] considered Johnson as "major" [[User:Punker85|Punker85]] ([[User talk:Punker85|talk]]) 15:27, 24 August 2023 (UTC) |
:::::[https://www.cnn.com/election/2024/presidential-candidates CNN], [https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2024-elections/presidential-candidates-tracker NBC News] and the [https://apnews.com/article/2024-presidential-candidates-who-is-running-e89fbfee94e7e7980594a9ce3994fec7 Associated Press] considered Johnson as "major" [[User:Punker85|Punker85]] ([[User talk:Punker85|talk]]) 15:27, 24 August 2023 (UTC) |
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*'''Yes''' but a very unenthusiastic yes from me. I was a proponent of the 5-poll criterion, and I don't believe in manipulating the criteria during the campaign in order to include or exclude specific candidates from the "major" category. But I would not support a 5-poll criterion for future campaigns since it allowed Perry Johnson and Ryan Binkley to be categorized as major candidates, which I would consider a failure of the criterion. --[[User:Metropolitan90|Metropolitan90]] [[User talk:Metropolitan90|(talk)]] 15:54, 24 August 2023 (UTC) |
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== Semi-protected edit request on 24 August 2023 == |
== Semi-protected edit request on 24 August 2023 == |
Revision as of 15:54, 24 August 2023
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Biden & Nixon
We mention the potential for Trump to equal a feat done by Cleveland. Perhaps we could also mention the potential for Biden to equal a feat done by Nixon. In the latter case, elected twice as vice president & twice as president. GoodDay (talk) 19:13, 7 August 2023 (UTC)
Abortion access is a left-wing term
Should be called "abortion issue" in a neutral way. "Abortion access" sounds like license to murder, "murder license". 62.226.95.222 (talk) 18:38, 17 August 2023 (UTC)
- Do you have a citation for any of this or it it your personal opinion? Bkatcher (talk) 19:07, 17 August 2023 (UTC)
RfC: Polling criteria for “major candidate” status
The current consensus for being considered a “major candidate” for this article and listed in the table is a candidate must meet one of the following criteria: being listed in 5 national polls, substantial media coverage, or holding significant elected office. Should the polling criteria remain? Now that the first Republican debate took place, I feel it is appropriate to revisit this question. Prcc27 (talk) 04:17, 24 August 2023 (UTC)
- No: The polling criteria has forced us to give undue weight to candidates with minimal media coverage. Even though I thought the polling criteria was flawed, I previously argued that it would be unfair to remove the criteria right after someone (Perry Johnson) qualified, so I said let’s at least keep him as a “major” candidate and see if he qualifies for the debates. After all, polling could be an indicator of whether one will or will not qualify for a debate. Given that the GOP actually has polling as one of their criteria for qualifying for the debates, I think that our polling criteria is obsolete. The new criteria should be substantial media coverage, holding significant elected office, or having qualified for at least 1 party sanctioned debate. Prcc27 (talk) 04:28, 24 August 2023 (UTC)
- Yes: For a few reasons. First, changing the criteria mid election cycle will encourage editors to try and change the criteria when they don't like it's application. Then we get a lot of RFCs. We need to have an RFC after the cycle to discuss tightening our criteria, not multiple throughout the cycle. Second, it's not WP:UNDUE to mention the fact the candidates ran and tried to make it to the debates. There was a lot of national coverage of it. Remember the major candidates are just people that ran a notable campaign, it's not meant to be a list of the only candidates with a shot of winning. Finally, candidates are going to start dropping out over the next few months so it will naturally narrow down, we don't need to narrow our criteria. The field will narrow itself.
- TulsaPoliticsFan (talk) 04:51, 24 August 2023 (UTC)
- Consensus can change. I agree, it would have been wrong to change the criteria a while back, but the election cycle changes, and our article should as well to reflect the reality of who is and isn’t a “major” candidate. If it wasn’t clear then that some of these candidates aren’t major candidates, it should be crystal clear now. It is undue, because we are treating candidates as “major” when most reliable sources do not agree with our assessment. It is pretty telling that two of the candidates that qualified under the polling criteria were obvious outliers even by Wikipedia standards (e.g. Perry Johnson did not have a portrait on our article for a significant amount of time, and Ryan Binkley did not have a Wikipedia article until a few days ago). “The field will narrow itself” is irrelevant. We will likely have a section for candidates that withdraw, and only candidates that are actually major should get a portrait in that section, if a gallery is included in that section. Prcc27 (talk) 05:35, 24 August 2023 (UTC)
- The Johnson portrait and Binkley arguments are two WP:OTHERCONTENT arguments. Johnson not having a copyright free photo available had nothing to do with whether or not he is a major candidate. On the Binkley argument, the standards for being a notable political candidate and general notability guidelines are different. Binkley had an article, but it was AFDed and deleted. Both arguments are WP:OTHERCONTENT, that don't focus on the sources, but other stuff internal to Wikipedia. Sometimes you're just missing a photo or someone you want to link just isn't notable enough for their own article when you're editing on Wikipedia. Those things just happen on here sometimes. TulsaPoliticsFan (talk) 05:49, 24 August 2023 (UTC)
- The “othercontent” essay aside, “coincidence” or not, the candidates that have qualified under the polling criteria have been outliers when it comes to media coverage when compared to the other candidates currently listed as “major”. Is there any reliable source that considers those two candidates to be “major” or at least treats them as serious candidates? Prcc27 (talk) 06:00, 24 August 2023 (UTC)
- Politico includes them both in their rundown of campaigns seriously trying to make the debate. There are sources on both campaigns and they both tried to seriously run. Johnson is honestly probably getting more coverage than Will Hurd and maybe even Larry Elder at this point. Binkley would be the absolute lowest tier candidate of the majors, but he does appear to be running a major campaign compared to the candidates in our minor candidates section. TulsaPoliticsFan (talk) 06:18, 24 August 2023 (UTC)
- The BBC, Vox and maybe Axios considered both of them as "major"
- CNN, NBC News and the Associated Press considered Johnson as "major" Punker85 (talk) 15:27, 24 August 2023 (UTC)
- The “othercontent” essay aside, “coincidence” or not, the candidates that have qualified under the polling criteria have been outliers when it comes to media coverage when compared to the other candidates currently listed as “major”. Is there any reliable source that considers those two candidates to be “major” or at least treats them as serious candidates? Prcc27 (talk) 06:00, 24 August 2023 (UTC)
- The Johnson portrait and Binkley arguments are two WP:OTHERCONTENT arguments. Johnson not having a copyright free photo available had nothing to do with whether or not he is a major candidate. On the Binkley argument, the standards for being a notable political candidate and general notability guidelines are different. Binkley had an article, but it was AFDed and deleted. Both arguments are WP:OTHERCONTENT, that don't focus on the sources, but other stuff internal to Wikipedia. Sometimes you're just missing a photo or someone you want to link just isn't notable enough for their own article when you're editing on Wikipedia. Those things just happen on here sometimes. TulsaPoliticsFan (talk) 05:49, 24 August 2023 (UTC)
- Consensus can change. I agree, it would have been wrong to change the criteria a while back, but the election cycle changes, and our article should as well to reflect the reality of who is and isn’t a “major” candidate. If it wasn’t clear then that some of these candidates aren’t major candidates, it should be crystal clear now. It is undue, because we are treating candidates as “major” when most reliable sources do not agree with our assessment. It is pretty telling that two of the candidates that qualified under the polling criteria were obvious outliers even by Wikipedia standards (e.g. Perry Johnson did not have a portrait on our article for a significant amount of time, and Ryan Binkley did not have a Wikipedia article until a few days ago). “The field will narrow itself” is irrelevant. We will likely have a section for candidates that withdraw, and only candidates that are actually major should get a portrait in that section, if a gallery is included in that section. Prcc27 (talk) 05:35, 24 August 2023 (UTC)
- Yes but a very unenthusiastic yes from me. I was a proponent of the 5-poll criterion, and I don't believe in manipulating the criteria during the campaign in order to include or exclude specific candidates from the "major" category. But I would not support a 5-poll criterion for future campaigns since it allowed Perry Johnson and Ryan Binkley to be categorized as major candidates, which I would consider a failure of the criterion. --Metropolitan90 (talk) 15:54, 24 August 2023 (UTC)
Semi-protected edit request on 24 August 2023
The link for Ryan Binkley on this page is not the official link to his actual page when you hover over his name. His page appears whenever you click the link, but if you hover over it, you get simple:Ryan Binkley, not the overview of the official page, like with the other candidates. 206.246.7.180 (talk) 14:05, 24 August 2023 (UTC)
Not done. The main Wikipedia article for Binkley is only in draft form, so the link to Wikipedia's "simple English" version is all that is currently available. The hovering result you describe is not under our control. If and when the draft article is accepted, this will change. --Spiffy sperry (talk) 14:30, 24 August 2023 (UTC)