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:I am adding sources, inline citations and some details such as exact dates tonight. If this remains incomplete, I will return to this at some later date. I think the sentence in the lead probably can be made more of a statement of what happened than a judgmental statement. Pillow lead an attack which opened a road out of the fort but (inexplicably, as at least one source states) returned to the trenches to resupply his men instead of trying to keep the road open and break out immediately. It was a mistake as the Union force rallied and closed the breach before an escape could be made. Pillow's reputation suffered from this misjudgment and also from the fact that he fled the fort for fear of prosecution for treason (having been a general in the Mexican-American War) while leaving almost all of his men to be captured. I have every book in the reference section except Longacre's and currently have access to JSTOR. We must stick to the facts as given by the sources, of course, but perhaps there are some other facts that are more positive or are mitigating factors which can be added, perhaps even as an alternate or minority view if that is the case. [[User:Donner60|Donner60]] ([[User talk:Donner60|talk]]) 05:52, 13 November 2014 (UTC) |
:I am adding sources, inline citations and some details such as exact dates tonight. If this remains incomplete, I will return to this at some later date. I think the sentence in the lead probably can be made more of a statement of what happened than a judgmental statement. Pillow lead an attack which opened a road out of the fort but (inexplicably, as at least one source states) returned to the trenches to resupply his men instead of trying to keep the road open and break out immediately. It was a mistake as the Union force rallied and closed the breach before an escape could be made. Pillow's reputation suffered from this misjudgment and also from the fact that he fled the fort for fear of prosecution for treason (having been a general in the Mexican-American War) while leaving almost all of his men to be captured. I have every book in the reference section except Longacre's and currently have access to JSTOR. We must stick to the facts as given by the sources, of course, but perhaps there are some other facts that are more positive or are mitigating factors which can be added, perhaps even as an alternate or minority view if that is the case. [[User:Donner60|Donner60]] ([[User talk:Donner60|talk]]) 05:52, 13 November 2014 (UTC) |
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:While I'm no defender of Pillow (or Floyd or Wise whom together form a trifecta of "political general" incompetence in various early war campaigns), I agree that the article focuses almost entirely on his many faults. Doing a quick check I've found some additional biographical info that helps explain why he was perceived positively in various circles before his downfall. One thing that bothers me, but would need a source to state it is that Grant/Buckner as friends had mutual reasons to trash Pillow and that probably deserves some sort of mention with regard to this well-known amusing anecdote. [[User:Red Harvest|Red Harvest]] ([[User talk:Red Harvest|talk]]) 06:42, 13 November 2014 (UTC) |
Revision as of 06:42, 13 November 2014
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factual error
One place in the article says that General Pillow died in Lee County, Arkansas. Another place in the article says that General Pillow died in Helena, Arkansas. Helena is not in Lee County. Helena is the county seat of Phillips County, which is south of Lee County. I don't know where he died, but the two references are contradictory. They can not both be correct. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.69.46.3 (talk) 04:10, 17 October 2008 (UTC)
This article seems to say a lot of negative things about the subject
Because a new editor attempted some preliminary changes (which were reverted), my eyes were drawn to this page, a work I have only peripherally assisted, adding a category, if memory serves. While Pillow was certainly not one of the tactical giants of the Confederate Army, he may deserve better treatment than he has gotten here. I'm not for a moment saying the sourced statements and quotes are inaccurate, but on reading the entire article, I'm not sure we've accomplished more than a caricature of a human being's life. My access to personal library sources is somewhat limited right now, and my time in the next few months also somewhat constrained, but I'm going to see if we can flesh out this page to improve we have previously done. While searching JSTOR, I see at least one book-length biography reviewed by scholarly sources, and many many journal articles. Right now all the applied sources concern some other figure of the time, plus some survey works. I see User:Donner60 is willing to help as well. Let's see if we can source this a bit better. BusterD (talk) 05:33, 13 November 2014 (UTC)
- I am adding sources, inline citations and some details such as exact dates tonight. If this remains incomplete, I will return to this at some later date. I think the sentence in the lead probably can be made more of a statement of what happened than a judgmental statement. Pillow lead an attack which opened a road out of the fort but (inexplicably, as at least one source states) returned to the trenches to resupply his men instead of trying to keep the road open and break out immediately. It was a mistake as the Union force rallied and closed the breach before an escape could be made. Pillow's reputation suffered from this misjudgment and also from the fact that he fled the fort for fear of prosecution for treason (having been a general in the Mexican-American War) while leaving almost all of his men to be captured. I have every book in the reference section except Longacre's and currently have access to JSTOR. We must stick to the facts as given by the sources, of course, but perhaps there are some other facts that are more positive or are mitigating factors which can be added, perhaps even as an alternate or minority view if that is the case. Donner60 (talk) 05:52, 13 November 2014 (UTC)
- While I'm no defender of Pillow (or Floyd or Wise whom together form a trifecta of "political general" incompetence in various early war campaigns), I agree that the article focuses almost entirely on his many faults. Doing a quick check I've found some additional biographical info that helps explain why he was perceived positively in various circles before his downfall. One thing that bothers me, but would need a source to state it is that Grant/Buckner as friends had mutual reasons to trash Pillow and that probably deserves some sort of mention with regard to this well-known amusing anecdote. Red Harvest (talk) 06:42, 13 November 2014 (UTC)