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::::::::So you can take your bad faith accusations and shove them. It's not disingenuity, it's me knowing how to write a fucking lede and you not. :) |
::::::::So you can take your bad faith accusations and shove them. It's not disingenuity, it's me knowing how to write a fucking lede and you not. :) |
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::::::::Of course, it doesn't matter. Because it's supported by at least one reliable source, it's certainly [[WP:DUE]] as it's what Milo is arguably best known for. Your opening claim that the paragraph "does far more to misinform than it does to inform." is not only completely ridiculous, it really makes it look like you're here to [[WP:RGW|push a political agenda]] rather than [[WP:HERE|improve the project]]. <span style="text-shadow:grey 0.118em 0.118em 0.118em;">[[User:MPants at work|<span style="color:green;">'''ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants'''</span>]] [[User_talk:MPants at work|<small>Tell me all about it.</small>]]</span> 12:26, 16 October 2018 (UTC) |
::::::::Of course, it doesn't matter. Because it's supported by at least one reliable source, it's certainly [[WP:DUE]] as it's what Milo is arguably best known for. Your opening claim that the paragraph "does far more to misinform than it does to inform." is not only completely ridiculous, it really makes it look like you're here to [[WP:RGW|push a political agenda]] rather than [[WP:HERE|improve the project]]. <span style="text-shadow:grey 0.118em 0.118em 0.118em;">[[User:MPants at work|<span style="color:green;">'''ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants'''</span>]] [[User_talk:MPants at work|<small>Tell me all about it.</small>]]</span> 12:26, 16 October 2018 (UTC) |
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::::::::::<small>Summoned from the darkness of [[WP:RSN]]</small> Considering all the corroborating evidence, I'd suggest that the Buzzfeed article is certainly a reliable source and that this is definitely [[WP:DUE]] considering that Yiannopoulos's main claim to fame is ''play acting as a nazi''. [[User:Simonm223|Simonm223]] ([[User talk:Simonm223|talk]]) 17:06, 23 October 2018 (UTC) |
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![]() | A fact from this article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the "Did you know?" column on July 24, 2012. The text of the entry was: Did you know ... that Milo Yiannopoulos arranged a moonwalking flash mob at Liverpool Street station as a tribute to Michael Jackson shortly after his death? |
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Talia Lavin
Shouldn't this section add the fact that this journalist was fired from The New Yorker for falsely accusing an ICE agent and disabled veteran of being a Nazi based on his tattoo (the tattoo was that of his former unit)? The sentence as written omits the context of the controversy in such a way as to make Mr. Yiannopoulos seem like an aggressor rather than a juvenile prankster when in fact it was Lavin's intent to slander a disabled vet with no real evidence. Furthermore the only citation given is of the SPLC which is a left wing advocacy group and not a neutral source. [[1]] 100.45.89.189 (talk) 22:52, 23 July 2018 (UTC)
- His status as a disabled vet has nothing to do with this, but I guess Yiannopoulos's "notyourshield" shtick only applies when it's convenient. Speculating about Lavin's intent, or misrepresenting her prompt apology and retraction, are inappropriate anywhere on Wikipedia, per WP:BLP. Wikipedia is not a platform to continue her harassment. A man in his thirties is not a "juvenile prankster", nor would that be any sort of excuse if he were. In fact, nowhere does the linked NY Post article mention Yiannopoulos at all. Grayfell (talk) 05:21, 24 July 2018 (UTC)
- What Greyfell said. Milo donated $14.88 to a jewish journalist who got herself in trouble. That's the only relevant bit. The fact that it was nazi-fuckery that reflects poorly on Milo is just tough luck for his supporters. ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants Tell me all about it. 14:26, 24 July 2018 (UTC)
why is this article still using a 2014 picture of milo?
this is not what he looks like now -- any google search will tell you this -- and the picture should be representative. using a 2014 photo just comes off as unnecessarily petty, and irresponsible of the wikipedia editor who chose to do that. 2605:6000:1706:8681:5423:E2CC:1:BBF6 (talk) 23:27, 15 August 2018 (UTC)
- Because it's the best photo we are legally permitted to use. Suggesting we steal a random image off the internet just to make him look good just comes across as unnecessarily petty and irresponsible. ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants Tell me all about it. 23:30, 15 August 2018 (UTC)
- Due to the rules regarding non-free content (see WP:NFCC) we can only use free photos of living people. This means quite often the only photos available to use are out of date. Feel free to update the photo if you are able to source a more up-to-date photo that has been released under a free license. Make sure to read WP:NFCC and WP:IUP first however. Only in death does duty end (talk) 23:34, 15 August 2018 (UTC)
- Maybe if he didn't completely change his appearance every few months, we wouldn't have this problem. But seriously though, if you find a freely-licensed picture that's more recent, feel free to upload it to Wikimedia Commons and put it in c:Category:Milo Yiannopoulos for other users to find. clpo13(talk) 23:45, 15 August 2018 (UTC)
Edit Request
There is a sentence in this article that reads "Yiannopoulos denied that his comments were responsible". The article is locked so can't correct it but it looks like the proper word should be "irresponsible". BubbleWobble (talk) 10:17, 16 August 2018 (UTC)
- Correct as it is; he denied that his comments were responsible for provoking the shooting at the Capital Gazette, two days later. Nedrutland (talk) 10:35, 16 August 2018 (UTC)
Update in light of August 2018 comments
Please could someone update this page in light of Yiannopoulos's comments, as reported here and here
I suggest that Yiannopoulos's claim that he was "a significant factor in Donald Trump getting elected" merits inclusion in the article and would fit neatly in the Political Views section. Jono1011 (talk) 15:39, 27 August 2018 (UTC)
Proposed revision of the 2nd introductory paragraph
The second paragraph in this article's introduction does far more to misinform than it does to inform. Please read the BuzzFeed article it's based on for yourself and see if you agree. The second paragraph of this introduction starts, "Much of the work at Breitbart which brought Yiannopoulos to national attention was inspired by the ideas of neo-Nazis and white nationalists." This is technically true according to the BuzzFeed article, but what is not mentioned is that the article Yiannopoulos wrote that brought him national attention was on the subject of the alt-right, so naturally involved contacting people commonly associated with neo-Nazis and white nationalists and discussing their ideas. If you read the full BuzzFeed article it actually strongly supports the notion that Yiannopoulos worked actively on an ongoing basis to distance himself from neo-Nazis and white nationalists for ideological reasons as well as optics.
The rest of the second paragraph extrapolates this misrepresentation, up to the point where it mentions his Dangerous book and the detail that "many" of his Breitbart articles were ghost-written. This last part seems pertinent, but maybe more appropriate in the "Controversies" section.
In general it seems this second paragraph belongs more in the "Career" or "Controversies" section where it can have the context it deserves for a greater depth of understanding. BuzzFeed is a single source with issues of its own (let's just say it's not the NYT); why is this single-source out-of-context factoid so critical that it must be the second paragraph of the introduction for the entire article, when it is more relevant to the aforementioned sub-sections? Without the relevant context the second paragraph becomes more like a character assassination than an attempt to accurately inform the reader. As is I think it lowers Wikipedia's credibility.
For reference here is the second paragraph in full in its current state: "Much of the work at Breitbart which brought Yiannopoulos to national attention was inspired by the ideas of neo-Nazis and white nationalists. In October 2017, leaked emails revealed that Yiannopoulos had repeatedly solicited neo-Nazi and white supremacist figures on the alt-right for feedback and story ideas in his work for the website Breitbart. The leaked emails also showed that his book, Dangerous, and many of his Breitbart articles were ghost-written by a Breitbart colleague." Joeparsec (talk) 21:59, 12 October 2018 (UTC)
- You know, a google image search will find plenty of pictures of this guy in Nazi regalia, and a google video search will find you a video of him giving a nazi salute at a karaoke bar, along with a dozen other nazis, including Richard Spencer. So... No. ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants
Tell me all about it. 22:29, 12 October 2018 (UTC)
- Comment: this is what the subject is best known for, so it's reasonable to have this content in the lead. K.e.coffman (talk) 00:11, 13 October 2018 (UTC)
- Re@ MjolnirPants: Do a search for Michael Richards and you'll find him saying he wants to string ni**ers up in a tree. You can take that out of context and definitively say he's a white nationalist neo-Nazi too. The primary issue I'm raising is that the BuzzFeed article is selectively interpreted to justify the second paragraph in this intro. Unless you want to turn the introduction of Yiannopoulos into points and counter-points of how his rise to fame was or wasn't inspired by white nationalist and neo-Nazi ideas -- which is the neutral way this subject should be raised when sourcing it to the single BuzzFeed article -- we should agree to move this part to a more relevant section where it can get the fuller context. Re@ K.e.coffman: if this is what he is best known for there should be a lot more than a single arguably-selectively-interpreted BuzzFeed article backing that up in the citation for the second paragraph in the introduction. Joeparsec (talk) 09:22, 13 October 2018 (UTC)
- Doing a search for Michael Richards will turn up information about one incident in his life. Milo, on the other hand, experiences a pattern of 1) getting caught being or acting like a nazi, 2) getting called out for it, 3) working hard to disassociate himself from modern nazis, 4) beginning to establish that he's not a nazi, and then returning to 1) getting caught being or acting like a nazi again. So yeah, your counter example is unconvincing. Regarding your response to Coffman: There are seven sources used in the article to establish Milo's nazi cred. But only one is used in the lede, so thank you for outing yourself as unwilling to read more than two paragraphs before making ideologically based complaints here. We now know that we will be justified in ignoring you out of hand if you continue to pursue this argument. ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants Tell me all about it. 21:00, 14 October 2018 (UTC)
- Modern American Extremism and Domestic Terrorism: An Encyclopedia of Extremists and Extremist Groups basically says the same thing that MP just wrote: [2]. K.e.coffman (talk) 22:13, 14 October 2018 (UTC)
- You're both talking opinion until you provide citations for the second paragraph. As it stands the second paragraph is based on a selective part from a single source. Yiannopoulos does an exposé on the alt-right (I tried to link to the exposé but Wikipedia's editors have blacklisted it), does primary research, and you're telling me the best way of summing that process up is to say, "Much of the work at Breitbart which brought Yiannopoulos to national attention was inspired by the ideas of neo-Nazis and white nationalists." !!? Read the link above provided by K.e.coffman; Yiannopoulos calls anti-Semites and white supremacists "the worst dregs of human society." In the next sentence someone from the SPLC says, "racists...and oddball figures like Yiannopoulos have more in common..." In a Wikipedia article we wouldn't include the latter and omit the former. Joeparsec (talk) 08:58, 15 October 2018 (UTC)
You're both talking opinion until you provide citations for the second paragraph.
There are seven such citations used in the article and one provided at the second paragraph itself. Your refusal to acknowledge this is not reflective of any failure on our part. As for the rest, see WP:ABIAS. We do not reflect fringe opinions with the same weight as we reflect mainstream opinions. The mainstream opinion (which is also a verifiable fact) is that Milo associates with neo-nazis and has much in common with them. Milo's statements to the contrary represent the fringe view of a tiny minority, and deserve virtually no weight whatsoever as a result. ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants Tell me all about it. 13:09, 15 October 2018 (UTC)- re@ MPants: You're being disingenuous to say the second paragraph is based on seven sources. It's based on one. One that's not of the highest caliber and is missing context. I'm just repeating myself. Hope more people weigh in on this issue. Joeparsec (talk) 09:14, 16 October 2018 (UTC)
- Have you ever read MOS:LEDE? I highly recommend it. Especially MOS:LEDECITE. In case you can't be bothered, I'll summarize. We usually don't cite material in the lede because the lede is a summary of the body, which should be cited in-line. We only add cites to the lede if a statement is particularly contentious. This means the bit in the lede that you're reading is a summary of this section, which is supported by six unique citations. Add to that the one from the lede, and the lede bit is supported by seven cites.
- So you can take your bad faith accusations and shove them. It's not disingenuity, it's me knowing how to write a fucking lede and you not. :)
- Of course, it doesn't matter. Because it's supported by at least one reliable source, it's certainly WP:DUE as it's what Milo is arguably best known for. Your opening claim that the paragraph "does far more to misinform than it does to inform." is not only completely ridiculous, it really makes it look like you're here to push a political agenda rather than improve the project. ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants Tell me all about it. 12:26, 16 October 2018 (UTC)
- Summoned from the darkness of WP:RSN Considering all the corroborating evidence, I'd suggest that the Buzzfeed article is certainly a reliable source and that this is definitely WP:DUE considering that Yiannopoulos's main claim to fame is play acting as a nazi. Simonm223 (talk) 17:06, 23 October 2018 (UTC)
- re@ MPants: You're being disingenuous to say the second paragraph is based on seven sources. It's based on one. One that's not of the highest caliber and is missing context. I'm just repeating myself. Hope more people weigh in on this issue. Joeparsec (talk) 09:14, 16 October 2018 (UTC)
- You're both talking opinion until you provide citations for the second paragraph. As it stands the second paragraph is based on a selective part from a single source. Yiannopoulos does an exposé on the alt-right (I tried to link to the exposé but Wikipedia's editors have blacklisted it), does primary research, and you're telling me the best way of summing that process up is to say, "Much of the work at Breitbart which brought Yiannopoulos to national attention was inspired by the ideas of neo-Nazis and white nationalists." !!? Read the link above provided by K.e.coffman; Yiannopoulos calls anti-Semites and white supremacists "the worst dregs of human society." In the next sentence someone from the SPLC says, "racists...and oddball figures like Yiannopoulos have more in common..." In a Wikipedia article we wouldn't include the latter and omit the former. Joeparsec (talk) 08:58, 15 October 2018 (UTC)
- Modern American Extremism and Domestic Terrorism: An Encyclopedia of Extremists and Extremist Groups basically says the same thing that MP just wrote: [2]. K.e.coffman (talk) 22:13, 14 October 2018 (UTC)
- Doing a search for Michael Richards will turn up information about one incident in his life. Milo, on the other hand, experiences a pattern of 1) getting caught being or acting like a nazi, 2) getting called out for it, 3) working hard to disassociate himself from modern nazis, 4) beginning to establish that he's not a nazi, and then returning to 1) getting caught being or acting like a nazi again. So yeah, your counter example is unconvincing. Regarding your response to Coffman: There are seven sources used in the article to establish Milo's nazi cred. But only one is used in the lede, so thank you for outing yourself as unwilling to read more than two paragraphs before making ideologically based complaints here. We now know that we will be justified in ignoring you out of hand if you continue to pursue this argument. ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants Tell me all about it. 21:00, 14 October 2018 (UTC)
- Re@ MjolnirPants: Do a search for Michael Richards and you'll find him saying he wants to string ni**ers up in a tree. You can take that out of context and definitively say he's a white nationalist neo-Nazi too. The primary issue I'm raising is that the BuzzFeed article is selectively interpreted to justify the second paragraph in this intro. Unless you want to turn the introduction of Yiannopoulos into points and counter-points of how his rise to fame was or wasn't inspired by white nationalist and neo-Nazi ideas -- which is the neutral way this subject should be raised when sourcing it to the single BuzzFeed article -- we should agree to move this part to a more relevant section where it can get the fuller context. Re@ K.e.coffman: if this is what he is best known for there should be a lot more than a single arguably-selectively-interpreted BuzzFeed article backing that up in the citation for the second paragraph in the introduction. Joeparsec (talk) 09:22, 13 October 2018 (UTC)