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::::What quantity of articles are lacking that it is necessary to amend the infobox for this purpose on the English Wikipedia? For the same reason we use the footnotes, the non-English name is not important information on this part of the Wikipedia. It also tends to be long, like ''Metaru Gia Soriddo Surī Sabushisutansu'' which on top of unnecessary, would also aesthetically affect the infobox. Unlike biographical articles where the person's foreign name is their actual name, media known by a popular name does not need to be translated in the infobox. It's Metal Gear Solid, not Metaru Gia Soriddo. I vote to keep the use of footnotes, and I vote against amending the infobox for this purpose. [[User: Darkwarriorblake|Darkwarriorblake]] / [[User talk:Darkwarriorblake|SEXY ACTION TALK PAGE!]] 23:09, 2 January 2021 (UTC) |
::::What quantity of articles are lacking that it is necessary to amend the infobox for this purpose on the English Wikipedia? For the same reason we use the footnotes, the non-English name is not important information on this part of the Wikipedia. It also tends to be long, like ''Metaru Gia Soriddo Surī Sabushisutansu'' which on top of unnecessary, would also aesthetically affect the infobox. Unlike biographical articles where the person's foreign name is their actual name, media known by a popular name does not need to be translated in the infobox. It's Metal Gear Solid, not Metaru Gia Soriddo. I vote to keep the use of footnotes, and I vote against amending the infobox for this purpose. [[User: Darkwarriorblake|Darkwarriorblake]] / [[User talk:Darkwarriorblake|SEXY ACTION TALK PAGE!]] 23:09, 2 January 2021 (UTC) |
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:::::{{u|Darkwarriorblake}}, you are thinking about transliterations/romanizations. In Metal Gear's case, its displayed native name would be メタルギア. "Metaru Gia Soriddo" would be omitted from the infobox or relegated to the footnote. ~ [[User:Dissident93|<b style="color: #660000;">''Dissident93''</b>]] <sup>([[User talk:Dissident93|<b style="color: #D18719;">''talk''</b>]])</sup> 00:08, 3 January 2021 (UTC) |
:::::{{u|Darkwarriorblake}}, you are thinking about transliterations/romanizations. In Metal Gear's case, its displayed native name would be メタルギア. "Metaru Gia Soriddo" would be omitted from the infobox or relegated to the footnote. ~ [[User:Dissident93|<b style="color: #660000;">''Dissident93''</b>]] <sup>([[User talk:Dissident93|<b style="color: #D18719;">''talk''</b>]])</sup> 00:08, 3 January 2021 (UTC) |
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:::::::That's worse! But thanks for clarifying. [[User: Darkwarriorblake|Darkwarriorblake]] / [[User talk:Darkwarriorblake|SEXY ACTION TALK PAGE!]] 00:14, 3 January 2021 (UTC) |
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Proposal on arcade fields
I mentioned this on WT:VG and it got some support so I wanted to make a formal proposition.
- Proposal: Remove the arcade game-specific fields Cabinet, CPU, Sound, and Display from the infobox.
Reasoning: These fields are each a combination of (a) too technical, (b) difficult to source, (c) not normally written in prose, and (d) not defining characteristics of the game. We already prohibit system requirements on non-arcade games per WP:VGSCOPE#13 for similar reasons. I've omitted Arcade System from this proposal, as there was some hesitation from others about removing it.
Votes
- Support as nominator TarkusABtalk/contrib 19:07, 11 September 2020 (UTC)
- Support These fields can all be derived from the arcade system specified and don't belong in the infobox. For that matter, I support removing Arcade System and an AWB run to move it into Platform instead. -- ferret (talk) 19:11, 11 September 2020 (UTC)
- The "Arcade System" parameter is closer to what we'd have as an "Engine" field for video games, and I'd be careful with that. I mean, the "platform" for all arcade games is "arcade", but the "arcade system" if it is notable is like the game engine it runs on. Now, that does beg the question, how many of those are notable? I know there's an AFD on one of the Namco ones for example, If only a fraction of these "arcade system" boards are notably that a smattering of arcade game infoboxes use it, then yes, lets deprecate that parameter too. But if it can be used more than say 10% of the time, we probably should keep it. --Masem (t) 19:16, 11 September 2020 (UTC)
- Support the four give as per nom. Mostly tech specs. --Masem (t) 19:16, 11 September 2020 (UTC)
- Support - they are a relic from the past when game articles had more technical details. ~ Dissident93 (talk) 19:55, 11 September 2020 (UTC)
- Support per nom and above. IceWelder [✉] 20:46, 11 September 2020 (UTC)
- Oppose - Arcade system should not be removed from the template. Roberth Martinez (talk) 02:32, 13 September 2020 (UTC)
- @KGRAMR: Re-read the proposal. It's not advocating to remove Arcade System, only Cabinet, CPU, Sound, and Display. TarkusABtalk/contrib 03:09, 13 September 2020 (UTC)
- Sorry! I did not make myself clear... Roberth Martinez (talk) 03:30, 13 September 2020 (UTC)
- Partial support for Sound, CPU and Display. However, looking at arcade cabinet, it seems Cabinet would definitely get a mention being one of the primary characteristics of an arcade? Please correct me if I am misunderstanding this field and arcades in general. — HELLKNOWZ ▎TALK 09:46, 13 September 2020 (UTC)
- @Hellknowz: Yes Cabinet is a little different. While you may think of most arcade games being bought and sold as dedicated cabinets in the West, it was different in Japan and the East in general. They had "candy cabinets" which were sit-down cabinets (as opposed to the western upright standard), and they were generic as opposed to being decorated for a dedicated game. Games were not sold with the cabinets but rather in "kits" which included the game PCB board, instruction pamphlets, and promotional flyers. If you were an arcade owner, you owned several generic cabs and then just buy/sell the kits and swap out the boards. The JAMMA standard makes this very easy. Arcade game trading among hobbyists in the West is basically like this now. TarkusABtalk/contrib 11:45, 13 September 2020 (UTC)
I'd say there's a rough consensus to remove fields here, with the possible exception of cabinet. -- ferret (talk) 21:11, 18 October 2020 (UTC)
- Support per above. OceanHok (talk) 00:51, 12 November 2020 (UTC)
- Support While I did think its info that would appeal to a certain audience, it goes against What Wikipedia is Not. Le Panini Talk 01:18, 12 November 2020 (UTC)
- Support - I agree with the concerns by TarkusAB and Le Panini, since Wikipedia is not a game guide. Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 02:27, 12 November 2020 (UTC)
- Support - I would actually vote to toss out the arcade system parameter too, since in my experience it's really hard to source and only a select few are actually significant. Anyways, I'm definitely voting to get rid of the others. They're useless to anybody that isn't an arcade cabinet/board collector — general readers are not gonna care what processor is used in Pac-Man, for instance. It's WP:GAMEGUIDE material that does nothing but bloat the infobox. Namcokid47 (Contribs) 17:59, 12 November 2020 (UTC)
So there is near universal support for this. Only one person voiced opposition, and one voiced concern for the Cabinet field to which I replied explaining and I don't see anyone else having concerns with it. Where do I need to go to make this happen? TarkusABtalk/contrib 03:30, 27 November 2020 (UTC)
- TarkusAB, I removed them. ~ Dissident93 (talk) 04:54, 27 November 2020 (UTC)
- @TarkusAB and Dissident93: When removing parameters, make sure to arrange for cleanup, as it floods the maintenance category. @Primefac: Could you run PrimeBot against Category:Pages_using_infobox_video_game_with_unknown_parameters to clean up the recently removed parameters? -- ferret (talk) 16:21, 27 November 2020 (UTC)
- Sure, I can try to run this later today. Primefac (talk) 17:22, 27 November 2020 (UTC)
Done, and I have to say I'm genuinely surprised that it took care of every page in the cat; usually it's "get rid of 90% of the garbage so the rest can be manually cleaned". A+, would bot for again. Primefac (talk) 23:39, 27 November 2020 (UTC)
- @Primefac: Thanks. The category is usually at 0, I keep it clean. -- ferret (talk) 23:53, 27 November 2020 (UTC)
- Seems like I didn't miss or break anything when removing the code then. ~ Dissident93 (talk) 10:41, 28 November 2020 (UTC)
- Even better! But yeah, I saw when you made the edit and it all looked shiny. Primefac (talk) 10:58, 28 November 2020 (UTC)
- @TarkusAB and Dissident93: When removing parameters, make sure to arrange for cleanup, as it floods the maintenance category. @Primefac: Could you run PrimeBot against Category:Pages_using_infobox_video_game_with_unknown_parameters to clean up the recently removed parameters? -- ferret (talk) 16:21, 27 November 2020 (UTC)
Add field for end of life?
Online games and MMOs have an "end of life" date associated with them since they are no longer playable when the servers are shutdown. It would be useful to add that field to the infobox after the release date.S-1-5-7 (talk) 07:59, 6 October 2020 (UTC)
- S-1-5-7, this has been discussed in the past (as a status parameter) and the consensus was that people would misuse this more than its intended purpose. Think of a game that stopped receiving updates, somebody could consider that game to be "end of life" even though you see cases like Left 4 Dead 2 that just received its first major update in over five years. I proposed that online-only games, including MMOs, could either have their own infobox or some sort of a yes/no flag that enables the use of status and other potential online/MMO specific parameters. The latter of course could still be misused, but the additional step(s) could be tracked and watched like we do for invalid parameters. ~ Dissident93 (talk) 19:50, 6 October 2020 (UTC)
- Dissident93 That is an interesting observation. Maybe the field could be something like "Online service status" and could be used for both pure online games that have ended (e.g., The Sims Online) as well as traditional games that are still playable but no longer allow multiplayer (e.g., Homefront). Games that don't have an online service component (e.g., Doom) wouldn't put anything in there even though they haven't been supported in decades.S-1-5-7 (talk) 13:46, 7 October 2020 (UTC)
- S-1-5-7, I personally don't disagree with this, but I still see this creating more problems than it really solves. ~ Dissident93 (talk) 20:27, 7 October 2020 (UTC)
- Dissident93 That is an interesting observation. Maybe the field could be something like "Online service status" and could be used for both pure online games that have ended (e.g., The Sims Online) as well as traditional games that are still playable but no longer allow multiplayer (e.g., Homefront). Games that don't have an online service component (e.g., Doom) wouldn't put anything in there even though they haven't been supported in decades.S-1-5-7 (talk) 13:46, 7 October 2020 (UTC)
It looks like this Template_talk:Infobox_video_game/Archive_11#Closure_date was the previous discussion of this. S-1-5-7 (talk) 13:50, 7 October 2020 (UTC)
- S-1-5-7, there were more recent discussions too that had the same consensus. ~ Dissident93 (talk) 01:43, 19 October 2020 (UTC)
- I think this decision is a little short-sighted. The fact that a online-game is no longer available is a key fact about the game and belongs in the infobox. Pokémon Brick Bronze is an example where the fact that the game was discontinued was "crammed" into the released field. We put the "end-date" in all sorts of infoboxes (people - death_date=; companies - defunct=; websites - current_status=, etc.) The fact that it could be "misused" should not drive the content. The question is "is this a key fact that belongs in a summary of the topic?" MB 15:21, 28 November 2020 (UTC)
- I would agree with this. Rather than discarding the idea for fear it'd be misused, I think we should workshop a name for the parameter that can't be as easily misunderstood.--AlexandraIDV 15:28, 28 November 2020 (UTC)
- Alexandra IDV, see my suggestion above. ~ Dissident93 (talk) 23:33, 28 November 2020 (UTC)
- Oh, sure, if it can be solved in a technical way like that on/off switch that'd work too.--AlexandraIDV 01:28, 29 November 2020 (UTC)
- Alexandra IDV, see my suggestion above. ~ Dissident93 (talk) 23:33, 28 November 2020 (UTC)
- I would agree with this. Rather than discarding the idea for fear it'd be misused, I think we should workshop a name for the parameter that can't be as easily misunderstood.--AlexandraIDV 15:28, 28 November 2020 (UTC)
- I think this decision is a little short-sighted. The fact that a online-game is no longer available is a key fact about the game and belongs in the infobox. Pokémon Brick Bronze is an example where the fact that the game was discontinued was "crammed" into the released field. We put the "end-date" in all sorts of infoboxes (people - death_date=; companies - defunct=; websites - current_status=, etc.) The fact that it could be "misused" should not drive the content. The question is "is this a key fact that belongs in a summary of the topic?" MB 15:21, 28 November 2020 (UTC)
Template-protected edit request on 5 November 2020
Can the website parameter be added to this infobox? I see it useful to link to the official website of the video game, like minecraft.net for Minecraft, genshin.mihoyo.com for Genshin Impact, and leagueoflegends.com for League of Legends. Aasim (talk) 22:12, 5 November 2020 (UTC)
- I'm going to disable the tper for now pending a discussion on this (or time for one, at least). ProcrastinatingReader (talk) 22:21, 5 November 2020 (UTC)
- I refer you to my previous response at Template talk:Infobox video game/Archive 15#Three parameter suggestions. --Izno (talk) 22:26, 5 November 2020 (UTC)
Predecessor and successor
Hello! Is it possible to add fields for preceded by and followed by which denotes which game which preceded and succeeded the first game. Mvh Sondre --88.91.100.244 (talk) 16:33, 12 November 2020 (UTC)
- Oh, this again. --Izno (talk) 16:43, 12 November 2020 (UTC)
Added FAQ
After yet another "GIEF SUCCESSOR" thread, I've started an FAQ. Right now it's just an index of the past year or two of discussions here. See Template talk:Infobox video game/FAQ. Feel free to go forth and actually summarize the group opinion. --Izno (talk) 17:59, 12 November 2020 (UTC)
- Should an edit notice be created, pointing out the FAQ? - Favre1fan93 (talk) 18:47, 12 November 2020 (UTC)
- I am not a fan of edit notices as being just more banner blindness. The utility of the FAQ above is that I can link to it like #FAQ. --Izno (talk) 18:49, 12 November 2020 (UTC)
Budget field
In order to be more like Infobox film, we should add a field for a game's budget. With the PS5, we're going to see all sorts of records being broken. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.178.205.194 (talk) 00:09, 19 December 2020 (UTC)
- Absolutely opposed. Game budgets are rarely announced, and are so difficult to source that the List of most expensive video games to develop is woefully out of date and incomplete. It also wildly lacks context as the costs for developing a game has changed vastly over time, above and beyond simple inflation. -- ferret (talk) 00:17, 19 December 2020 (UTC)
- Also opposed for the same reasoning as ferret. ~ Dissident93 (talk) 05:24, 19 December 2020 (UTC)
- Further opposed. Film budgets are regularly reported, game budgets are not. --Masem (t) 06:04, 19 December 2020 (UTC)
- What a crappy reason. If there's no data then you leave it blank. No need to be defeatist and give up before you've started. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.178.205.194 (talk) 17:37, 19 December 2020 (UTC)
- From experience, if we have a field, inexperienced editors will want to fill it out with any data they can find, including data from unreliable sources, which is not a good thing. But again, the percent of games we accurately know budgets for is probably less than 5%, making a field that would not get much use compared to all the other fields we have in place in this template. --Masem (t) 17:48, 19 December 2020 (UTC)
- What a crappy reason. If there's no data then you leave it blank. No need to be defeatist and give up before you've started. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.178.205.194 (talk) 17:37, 19 December 2020 (UTC)
Translate title
Had a thought. The same way that {{infobox person}} has |pronunciation=
and |native_name=
parameters, have we considered adding something similar, to avoid footnoting in the lede? Similar to the current MoS, it would only be useful if the title was originally released in a non-English language and is also known by that native language title, but it's a much more elegant solution than footnoting in the first sentence. czar 19:43, 2 January 2021 (UTC)
- Sounds like a good idea to me. So, we'd be looking at title in original language, what the language is, romanization (if applicable), and an English translation? Anything else?--AlexandraIDV 20:16, 2 January 2021 (UTC)
- Watching for more opinions, but pointing out this would be difficult to implement for Wikidata. Would need to talk to RexxS and MikePeel. Maybe pull country of origin property, then pull the label of that language if available. A thing to consider, though. -- ferret (talk) 20:20, 2 January 2021 (UTC)
- I'd make a table like we have today that traces the language item identifier to country/region identifier, maybe. (I think you might still have problems with countries like Canada that support both English and French.) --Izno (talk) 20:58, 2 January 2021 (UTC)
- Keep footnotes Darkwarriorblake / SEXY ACTION TALK PAGE! 20:33, 2 January 2021 (UTC)
- Infoboxes are supplementary. Footnoting in the lead was a compromise for a valid alternative title (in many cases). I would not support removal of such footnotes. (I see no issue with the infobox having an alternative name in a different language, but that rationale is crap.) --Izno (talk) 20:33, 2 January 2021 (UTC)
- Izno, agreed. Do other forms of media like films have this sort of thing? ~ Dissident93 (talk) 20:44, 2 January 2021 (UTC)
- Absolutely, you can find 'native name' in most other infoboxes in general, in fact. --Izno (talk) 20:54, 2 January 2021 (UTC)
- Izno, oh, I meant in addition to pronunciation parameter. I also see no issue with native name but I am unsure if it should fully replace the footnote. ~ Dissident93 (talk) 22:14, 2 January 2021 (UTC)
- What quantity of articles are lacking that it is necessary to amend the infobox for this purpose on the English Wikipedia? For the same reason we use the footnotes, the non-English name is not important information on this part of the Wikipedia. It also tends to be long, like Metaru Gia Soriddo Surī Sabushisutansu which on top of unnecessary, would also aesthetically affect the infobox. Unlike biographical articles where the person's foreign name is their actual name, media known by a popular name does not need to be translated in the infobox. It's Metal Gear Solid, not Metaru Gia Soriddo. I vote to keep the use of footnotes, and I vote against amending the infobox for this purpose. Darkwarriorblake / SEXY ACTION TALK PAGE! 23:09, 2 January 2021 (UTC)
- Darkwarriorblake, you are thinking about transliterations/romanizations. In Metal Gear's case, its displayed native name would be メタルギア. "Metaru Gia Soriddo" would be omitted from the infobox or relegated to the footnote. ~ Dissident93 (talk) 00:08, 3 January 2021 (UTC)
- That's worse! But thanks for clarifying. Darkwarriorblake / SEXY ACTION TALK PAGE! 00:14, 3 January 2021 (UTC)
- Darkwarriorblake, you are thinking about transliterations/romanizations. In Metal Gear's case, its displayed native name would be メタルギア. "Metaru Gia Soriddo" would be omitted from the infobox or relegated to the footnote. ~ Dissident93 (talk) 00:08, 3 January 2021 (UTC)
- Absolutely, you can find 'native name' in most other infoboxes in general, in fact. --Izno (talk) 20:54, 2 January 2021 (UTC)
- Izno, agreed. Do other forms of media like films have this sort of thing? ~ Dissident93 (talk) 20:44, 2 January 2021 (UTC)