Contents
- 1 Notification
- 2 User:AkhtarHussain83
- 3 IP trouble again
- 4 editwar by me and User:130.156.22.254 and others
- 5 Cordially Asking Your Professional Opinion
- 6 Removal of contents
- 7 Question about One Click Archiver
- 8 Dean1997
- 9 However you want to handle this as I think you gave the warning a day or to ago and the confusion was cleared away
- 10 Self-requested block
- 11 3RR Violation
- 12 How to guide for AE (primarily DS)
- 13 Thank you -- Jolly protection
- 14 Sorry
- 15 AfC and RNM
- 16 Directions.
- 17 Next Steps
- 18 User:Mona778
- 19 Talk page abuse
- 20 A couple of things
Notification
You are involved in a recently-filed request for clarification or amendment from the Arbitration Committee. Please review the request at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Clarification and Amendment#Clarification request: Palestine-Israel articles 3 - General Prohibition and, if you wish to do so, enter your statement and any other material you wish to submit to the Arbitration Committee. Additionally, the Wikipedia:Arbitration guide may be of use.
Thanks,
User:AkhtarHussain83
Hello. I am handling an unblock request and I am hoping you can help me understand the block better. I went through their ~50 contributions. Other than this edit you mention, and a bit of edit warring I am not seeing an obvious reason for an indef block. I asked them about that edit and they gave an explanation here: User_talk:AkhtarHussain83#Block review.
The content in question seems to have been originally added here by User:KahnJohn27 who was a user of 3 years who was blocked weeks after the edit. Do you think these two users are connected?
I may be missing information, and I am happy to reconsider, but as it stands I am having trouble understanding the duration of the block. Thank you. HighInBC 14:20, 5 April 2016 (UTC)
- Replied at User talk:AkhtarHussain83. Thanks for taking on the review. EdJohnston (talk) 17:29, 5 April 2016 (UTC)
IP trouble again
There's a new IP I'm very suspicious about, and I'm pretty much convinced it's the sock of those IPs you recently blocked.
92.3.12.19 (talk · contribs) is the new IP and it's coming out of Wales, just like the other three IPs. Something very peculiar is that this latest IP personally attacked veteran user Darouet out of nowhere. It is strange because this IP had no contact with Darouet in the two edits prior to his PA against Darouet. However, at least one of these IPs have a history with Darouet as seen here [1]. This IP also has a unique way of referring to my user name. He says 'Etienne Dolet' with an apostrophe (as seen here and here). Also, it somehow appears to know a thing or two about Wikipedia preferences (i.e. "Wikipedia should follow RS not your agenda.") said here. This IP is also not guilt free from personal attacks as seen here. These complaints are very similar in the recent IPs tone as seen here where he repeats the whole RS jargon over and over again.
All these IPs are geographically coming out of very close locations in a certain part of Wales. See for yourself. I have listed them in chronological order from earliest to most recent:
Let me know what you plan on doing. Thanks, Étienne Dolet (talk) 02:31, 6 April 2016 (UTC)
- My mistake, you're not the one who blocked them. I got you mixed up with FPaS. But you can still take a look at your convenience and let me know. Étienne Dolet (talk) 02:37, 6 April 2016 (UTC)
- I restored the indefinite semiprotection on Vladimir Putin. That should handle it, except for the personal attacks. If you also want blocks, why not ask User:Ohnoitsjamie, who has already blocked Special:Contributions/92.3.30.114. EdJohnston (talk) 02:46, 6 April 2016 (UTC)
- That's fine I'll go ahead and ask Ohnoitsjamie. But this is a clear-cut sock and I've added more DUCK-like evidence. In fact, the IP should get blocked just for this alone [2] (I warned him for personal attacks). But I want the sockpuppetry to go on record so as to easily prevent it in the future. Étienne Dolet (talk) 02:58, 6 April 2016 (UTC)
- Block range expanded, duration extended. Let me know if further modification is needed. OhNoitsJamie Talk 03:13, 6 April 2016 (UTC)
- Ohnoitsjamie Is it appropiate for me to strike out some of the comments he has made at article talk pages? Such as this? Étienne Dolet (talk) 03:21, 6 April 2016 (UTC)
- Yes, per WP:DENY. OhNoitsJamie Talk 23:56, 6 April 2016 (UTC)
- Ohnoitsjamie Is it appropiate for me to strike out some of the comments he has made at article talk pages? Such as this? Étienne Dolet (talk) 03:21, 6 April 2016 (UTC)
- Block range expanded, duration extended. Let me know if further modification is needed. OhNoitsJamie Talk 03:13, 6 April 2016 (UTC)
- That's fine I'll go ahead and ask Ohnoitsjamie. But this is a clear-cut sock and I've added more DUCK-like evidence. In fact, the IP should get blocked just for this alone [2] (I warned him for personal attacks). But I want the sockpuppetry to go on record so as to easily prevent it in the future. Étienne Dolet (talk) 02:58, 6 April 2016 (UTC)
- I restored the indefinite semiprotection on Vladimir Putin. That should handle it, except for the personal attacks. If you also want blocks, why not ask User:Ohnoitsjamie, who has already blocked Special:Contributions/92.3.30.114. EdJohnston (talk) 02:46, 6 April 2016 (UTC)
editwar by me and User:130.156.22.254 and others
You were kind enough to comment here I would like to say that I have also perpetrated when it comes to 3rr, so I'm also to blame. However I do think that it's not right when users insert their personal opinions into sourced text, that is not supported by the sources used. It happens a lot on pages concerning ethnic groups and it is worrisome and damages Wikipedia. There is also a matter of sockpuppetry involved which I have reported here. Thank you. Gerard von Hebel (talk) 02:53, 6 April 2016 (UTC)
- Thank you. For your action here. User: 69.119.175.240 was also involved today here. As can also be seen here. Gerard von Hebel (talk) 04:09, 6 April 2016 (UTC)
Cordially Asking Your Professional Opinion
- Emmaus Nicopolis ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
User:EdJohnston, I am turning to you for your unbiased and professional opinion about an edit on the archaeological site Emmaus Nicopolis article, a place in Israel, and where I have suggested a more neutral edit so as to read: "The site today is inside Canada Park and is maintained by the Jewish National Fund of Canada," as opposed to the current edit that reads: "The site today is inside Canada Park in the West Bank, and maintained by the Jewish National Fund of Canada." As it stands, two Arab editors have joined in on the Talk-Page discussion (see: Talk:Emmaus Nicopolis#Location of Emmaus-Nicopolis (Imwas)) to voice their general disapproval at implying the archaeological site is in Israel, while Jewish participants (including myself) have wanted to omit the words "West Bank" in the article, that is to say, to keep it neutral, without mentioning Israel, neither the West Bank. What do you think we should do with respect to this edit? Can you give your advice on how we ought to proceed and to reach a compromise?Davidbena (talk) 22:02, 6 April 2016 (UTC)
- At present the Emmaus Nicopolis article does not mention any political controversy about the place of the site. That article is mostly addressed to history and archaeology. It might be best to describe the site's location in the most non-committal fashion possible. If you can manage to omit both West Bank and Israel from the article lead, that might be best. If a dispute occurs, consider an WP:RFC. There is more political stuff in Canada Park and that might be a better place to mention political issues. It appears that Canada Park actually straddles the Green Line. If people consider this an important issue, maybe somebody can create a map showing how that works. It is WP:UNDUE to make an archaeological article political if reliable sources don't emphasize that aspect in their own coverage of the site. EdJohnston (talk) 23:18, 6 April 2016 (UTC)
- Thanks, Ed. I'll post your reply on the Talk-Page, but I'll keep it anonymous.Davidbena (talk) 23:36, 6 April 2016 (UTC)
- Ed, with all due respect, the article doesnt make any political points. It says where the place is, without any commentary at all. Its not in dispute that this place is in the West Bank, it isnt in the area Israel proclaimed annexed with East Jerusalem. The only dispute is happening on that talk page, nowhere else. We're going around in circles with somebody who is claiming that the UN recognized that the Jewish state includes all of Palestine, including the West Bank, and that the West Bank is a historical place that hasnt existed since the Jordanian occupation. Nobody is adding "Israeli-occupied" or anything of the sort to the article. Nobody is politicizing anything there. We arent even putting in "Palestinian territories". But we really shouldnt be say a place in the West Bank is in the West Bank? Canada Park does indeed straddle the Green Line with some of it in Israel. This site however is not in the small portion of the park that is in Israel. And you dont have to take my word for it. Here. That dashed line is the Green Line. nableezy - 23:53, 6 April 2016 (UTC)
- The problem with User:Nableezy's suggested edit is that he lives in the past, but not in the present. This is plain to all.Davidbena (talk) 00:26, 7 April 2016 (UTC)
- User:Davidbena, can you explain why this edit of yours is a good idea? You replace the simple term West Bank with a circumlocution. You don't want to grant that the site is in the West Bank? The terminology of 'de-facto annexation' that you use on the article talk page looks adventurous and I'm not sure why editors are allowing so much talk space for an apparently eccentric discussion. We may grant that East Jerusalem is in a funny status because Israel uses special vocabulary for it, and also the Golan Heights, but this stuff about Emmaus appears strange. EdJohnston (talk) 00:36, 7 April 2016 (UTC)
- The problem with User:Nableezy's suggested edit is that he lives in the past, but not in the present. This is plain to all.Davidbena (talk) 00:26, 7 April 2016 (UTC)
Yes, of course. Emmaus is situated in the very center of Israel, the heart of Israel. In government circles, there is no discussion at all, no dialogue, to make the place negotiable for a return under Arab-rule or hegemony, since "Area C" in the Oslo II Accords (where the site is located) is clearly defined as remaining under "full Israeli civil and security control." It's non-negotiable. So, when I saw the emphasis on "West-Bank," as the location of this place, it conjured-up in my mind an editor who wanted to relive the past, but forget the present status of the place. My edit was to fully clarify the current status of the place.Davidbena (talk) 00:55, 7 April 2016 (UTC)
- Saying it is in the West Bank is to state where it is in relation to the Green Line (Israel). Why is it essential to add further information that it is in Area C? For an ancient site, this hardly appears to be a core feature of the article. It is importing modern politics. Based on what you have said in this thread, there is a hint of POV-pushing. Like your critique of Nableezy's edit, that 'he lives in the past, but not the present.' Though content issues are beyond the scope of admins, we are expected to keep an eye on obvious tendentious editing, which is starting to be the suspicion here. EdJohnston (talk) 01:05, 7 April 2016 (UTC)
- Okay, so if I might politely ask you, why is it important to mention the place's relation to the Green Line (Israel)? This is hardly an essential component in this article. Secondly, how can I be accused of POV-pushing when I have from the beginning to the end stressed only a NEUTRAL edit?Davidbena (talk) 01:21, 7 April 2016 (UTC)
Removal of contents
No you are not right. I am just trying to correct my English. I have just changed few words. It hasn't changed the meaning of the comments. I have every right to do this. Obviously you cannot call it disruptive edit. Please dont revert my edits. Arman ad60 (talk) 19:27, 7 April 2016 (UTC)
Question about One Click Archiver
Hey! I saw you archiving stuff with One Click Archiver. I was wondering if it is limited to certain users. Winterysteppe (talk) 20:24, 7 April 2016 (UTC)
- No. See WP:OneClickArchiver. I decided to do some manual archiving at AN3 because the regular bot seems to have fallen behind on doing the archiving. EdJohnston (talk) 21:01, 7 April 2016 (UTC)
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- installed and done Winterysteppe (talk) 21:24, 7 April 2016 (UTC)
Dean1997
Dean1997 (talk · contribs · logs · block log) is determined that the infobox at Cara Delevingne should show a particular romantic "partner." This was against consensus. He chose to edit war about it and you warned him "to get consensus on the talk page before trying yet again to add 'partner' information to Cara Delevingne's article." Apparently unsatisfied with that prospect, he made the edit with a different account, for which he received a week-long block (SPI). Why was I surprised to see that he'd done it again? I apologize if this is petty; I know I could just keep reverting his mostly-harmless edit every few days, but it irks me—uggh! Thank you. Rebbing 02:31, 8 April 2016 (UTC)
- Now blocked. Thanks for following up. EdJohnston (talk) 03:15, 8 April 2016 (UTC)
However you want to handle this as I think you gave the warning a day or to ago and the confusion was cleared away
Sorry to bother you with this. It's re: MB. Again. I don't mind the comment much but the sanction has either outlived it's usefulness and should be rescinded (it's over a year) or enforced. In the past Gamaliel has refused to lift or enforce it against MB and the sanction was reduced by him only when he enforced it against me (he rev delled something I wrote and Mitchell blocked me - AN reversed it and noted an abuse of tools - AN undid the block, undid the revdell's as it was not a violation, and left some strong words about abusing tools - check my block log) - Anyway, I don't care whether it stays or goes. The original sanction was to prevent me and Thargor from bringing AE cases against MB for incivility and I'm sure if I bring it, there will be a literal shiatstorm. You can either ignore it, enforce it (another warning or whatever), bring it AE to lift the sanction or bring it to AE to enforce it or point me where I can get it lifted. I'm afraid that little bites will just keep accumulating as they have in the past without any way to redress or respond. It's a minor cheapshot, but after your warning, I wouldn't have thought he'd be so quick to return to "minor." Just like the 3RR report, they'll be at AE lickety-split (or email as that was the method used for the overturned one) This is the latest violation --DHeyward (talk) 17:47, 8 April 2016 (UTC)
- And escalated again with a thinly veiled reference to the "Edit Warring Noticeboard" with a absolutely false characterization. I didn't add any quotes. I didn't even add the text, just the souce but he still need to stop the personal attacks. [3]. Choice for me now is expand out more sources in thae article (because he's wrong) or delete the paragraph entirely as I don't even think it belongs. Try #2 first. --DHeyward (talk) 02:39, 9 April 2016 (UTC)
- Sorry to say, I'm glad that I don't understand this. I'm remembering why I tried to avoid Gamergate stuff back in 2015. By the way, your current restriction doesn't prevent you from opening a new AE against MB. EdJohnston (talk) 02:51, 9 April 2016 (UTC)
Self-requested block
As on my talk page, Can you block me until Friday, April 15 because I need to enforce my wikibreak.KGirlTrucker87 (talk) 13:18, 9 April 2016 (UTC)
- Please ask one of the admins listed in Category:Wikipedia administrators willing to consider placing self-requested blocks. Thanks, EdJohnston (talk) 14:36, 9 April 2016 (UTC)
3RR Violation
Ed, since you seem to engage at the 3rr Noticeboard fairly regularly, I'm interested to get your input on why this submission seems likely to be archived with no admin response. The subject has refused to acknowledge the violation, but has instead responded with personal attacks. I made what seemed (to me anyway) like a good faith offer to withdraw the complaint if he/she would at least observe WP:BLPREQUESTRESTORE, but he/she flat out denies that the policy even applies. I understand that editors can be given grace when they give some indication that they at least understand how they might have violated policy. That does not seem to be the case here. Thanks very much.CFredkin (talk) 08:48, 10 April 2016 (UTC)
- When a 3RR case involves BLP, it may be difficult to issue blocks unless one party is really being outrageous. (Each party might be reverting because of a good-faith belief they were removing a BLP violation). In that particular article it looks to be a fight over nuances. In this edit of the David Jolly article, User:Dirroli appears to think that Sarah Bascom's name ought to be removed, and that more context should be given for the complaint. You want to restore Bascom's name and give less context. For the most part, reliable sources are provided for all these things. So which of you is being the villain? EdJohnston (talk) 17:21, 10 April 2016 (UTC)
- Thanks for your response. I understand your point regarding the nuance of our positions, but my impression is that both WP:3rr and WP:BLPREQUESTRESTORE provide pretty cut and dried rules of engagement. In any case it's good for me to know that they can be dis-regarded in some cases moving forward.CFredkin (talk) 18:16, 10 April 2016 (UTC)
- I've now put the David Jolly page under two weeks of full protection. If the RfC on the talk page reaches a result, the protection might be lifted. EdJohnston (talk) 18:32, 10 April 2016 (UTC)
- Thank you for engaging.CFredkin (talk) 19:20, 10 April 2016 (UTC)
- I just noticed this covert effort by CFredkin to get an admin (you) on his side, rather than letting it play out on the edit warring noticeboard and the Jolly talk page. It's remarkable that CFredkin failed to admit or even acknowledge that saying Bascom herself scrubbed the Jolly article was an obvious BLP violation since no sources say that. Anyway, I would be very surprised if there aren't any rules on Wikipedia about an editor secretly trying to persuade an administrator to support his position and take action against another editor, particularly when there is a discussion currently taking place on a noticeboard and elsewhere. So I guess when things aren't going his way at a noticeboard, CFredkin thinks it's appropriate to go behind everyone's backs to find someone who will be sympathetic to his views. Dirroli (talk) 19:51, 10 April 2016 (UTC)
- it is called WP:ADMINSHOP if it excessive. But both of you should just knock off the drama here and work it out at the article talk page. I am still waiting for CFredkin to write something meaningful there beyond citing strings of capital letters and presenting an RfC with the two versions and saying "pick". That is not using a talk page to work toward consensus. There is WP:NODEADLINE especially with the article protected, so Dirroli just be patient and wait for CFredkin to actually communicate, and in the meantime talk with other editors who are actually talking, to try to arrive at a consensus version. If CFredkin doesn't participate and just resumes edit warring after protection lifts they will be completely block-able and perhaps TBAN-able, as doing that (not actually talking and working toward consensus while the article is protected) is really bad behavior. Just focus on the work, and not the drama. Jytdog (talk) 20:05, 10 April 2016 (UTC)
- User:Jytdog: It appears that you've followed me here from the SPI you and another editor filed against myself and the other editor accused by Jolly's spokesperson of being paid operatives in the recent Buzzfeed article. I understand that your feathers are a bit ruffled that I've challenged you on your repeated claims that you don't need to provide evidence to support your accusations against us until after a CU and for deleting the responses of myself and the other accused editor from the SPI page. But the fact that you've now followed me here is starting to seem like WP:Wikihounding. As far as your assertions regarding this particular issue, I believe I've clearly stated my concerns regarding Dirroli's content in the Talk discussion. Dirroli's responses have been rambling and vitriolic. Since we've each had the opportunity to lay out our positions, I've intitiated an RfC to solicit outside opinion. I'm hopeful that will help provide clarity on the situation.CFredkin (talk) 20:42, 10 April 2016 (UTC)
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- Nope, I have watched this page for around a year now, which you would see if you checked the history; for a person who complains bitterly about unfounded "accusations" you should be more careful in making them. On the Jolly talk page, on this issue you have just said this and this One post, stating a broad argument, and a second focused on one word, is not working toward consensus over nuances. I won't be responding to you further here: i am getting the "i love drama" vibe loud and clear. Jytdog (talk) 20:44, 10 April 2016 (UTC)
- User:Jytdog: Speaking of unfounded accusations, you missed this edit by me at Talk. And since you've inserted yourself into the discussion here, I'll note that I haven't seen you make any positive contributions to the discussion on this issue at the Talk there either.CFredkin (talk) 21:10, 10 April 2016 (UTC)
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- just noting that i originally missed the 2nd dif but had added it prior to CFredkin's comment. two whole comments is not dialogue and the comment is yet more drama from this editor. BWOTJytdog (talk) 21:17, 10 April 2016 (UTC)
- User:Jytdog Speaking of BWOT... Here's my perspective on the sequence of events related to your SPI:
- just noting that i originally missed the 2nd dif but had added it prior to CFredkin's comment. two whole comments is not dialogue and the comment is yet more drama from this editor. BWOTJytdog (talk) 21:17, 10 April 2016 (UTC)
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- User:Jytdog: Speaking of unfounded accusations, you missed this edit by me at Talk. And since you've inserted yourself into the discussion here, I'll note that I haven't seen you make any positive contributions to the discussion on this issue at the Talk there either.CFredkin (talk) 21:10, 10 April 2016 (UTC)
- Nope, I have watched this page for around a year now, which you would see if you checked the history; for a person who complains bitterly about unfounded "accusations" you should be more careful in making them. On the Jolly talk page, on this issue you have just said this and this One post, stating a broad argument, and a second focused on one word, is not working toward consensus over nuances. I won't be responding to you further here: i am getting the "i love drama" vibe loud and clear. Jytdog (talk) 20:44, 10 April 2016 (UTC)
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- User:Jytdog: It appears that you've followed me here from the SPI you and another editor filed against myself and the other editor accused by Jolly's spokesperson of being paid operatives in the recent Buzzfeed article. I understand that your feathers are a bit ruffled that I've challenged you on your repeated claims that you don't need to provide evidence to support your accusations against us until after a CU and for deleting the responses of myself and the other accused editor from the SPI page. But the fact that you've now followed me here is starting to seem like WP:Wikihounding. As far as your assertions regarding this particular issue, I believe I've clearly stated my concerns regarding Dirroli's content in the Talk discussion. Dirroli's responses have been rambling and vitriolic. Since we've each had the opportunity to lay out our positions, I've intitiated an RfC to solicit outside opinion. I'm hopeful that will help provide clarity on the situation.CFredkin (talk) 20:42, 10 April 2016 (UTC)
- it is called WP:ADMINSHOP if it excessive. But both of you should just knock off the drama here and work it out at the article talk page. I am still waiting for CFredkin to write something meaningful there beyond citing strings of capital letters and presenting an RfC with the two versions and saying "pick". That is not using a talk page to work toward consensus. There is WP:NODEADLINE especially with the article protected, so Dirroli just be patient and wait for CFredkin to actually communicate, and in the meantime talk with other editors who are actually talking, to try to arrive at a consensus version. If CFredkin doesn't participate and just resumes edit warring after protection lifts they will be completely block-able and perhaps TBAN-able, as doing that (not actually talking and working toward consensus while the article is protected) is really bad behavior. Just focus on the work, and not the drama. Jytdog (talk) 20:05, 10 April 2016 (UTC)
- I just noticed this covert effort by CFredkin to get an admin (you) on his side, rather than letting it play out on the edit warring noticeboard and the Jolly talk page. It's remarkable that CFredkin failed to admit or even acknowledge that saying Bascom herself scrubbed the Jolly article was an obvious BLP violation since no sources say that. Anyway, I would be very surprised if there aren't any rules on Wikipedia about an editor secretly trying to persuade an administrator to support his position and take action against another editor, particularly when there is a discussion currently taking place on a noticeboard and elsewhere. So I guess when things aren't going his way at a noticeboard, CFredkin thinks it's appropriate to go behind everyone's backs to find someone who will be sympathetic to his views. Dirroli (talk) 19:51, 10 April 2016 (UTC)
- Thank you for engaging.CFredkin (talk) 19:20, 10 April 2016 (UTC)
- I've now put the David Jolly page under two weeks of full protection. If the RfC on the talk page reaches a result, the protection might be lifted. EdJohnston (talk) 18:32, 10 April 2016 (UTC)
- Thanks for your response. I understand your point regarding the nuance of our positions, but my impression is that both WP:3rr and WP:BLPREQUESTRESTORE provide pretty cut and dried rules of engagement. In any case it's good for me to know that they can be dis-regarded in some cases moving forward.CFredkin (talk) 18:16, 10 April 2016 (UTC)
- Jolly's spokesperson edits his WP bio to remove some content that could be considered negative about him and add some content that could be considered positive.
- I restored the negative content because it was well-sourced and removed the recently added positive content that was unsourced.
- Jolly's spokesperson is outed on Buzzfeed for having edited his bio and claims that myself and another editor she had interacted with are paid operatives.
- You, Dirroli, and the editor who is playing Dolores Umbridge to your Pius Thicknesse in an SPI investigation to unmask paid operatives for Republican candidates reads the Buzzfeed article and head to the David Jolly article post haste.
- Dolores Umbridge notices that myself and the other editor named in the Buzzfeed article edit some of the same articles and the 2 of you decide to add us to your SPI investigation.
- When we challenge your claims and request evidence to back up your accusations, you 1) ignore the requests, 2) delete the requests, 3) respond to the effect that evidence will be provided after the trial and you've nothing to fear if you nothing to hide.
- Dirroli (who by the way started editing on WP on 3/17/16) starts adding as much negative information about the incident to Jolly's bio as he/she can. When challenged, he/she ignores WP policy and responds with hostility.
So, from my perspective, you're the ones creating "drama".CFredkin (talk) 21:43, 10 April 2016 (UTC)
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- What the actual fuck, CFredkin? I'm not sure exactly what you're alleging here with that rant, but are you accusing me of being part of some conspiracy to edit the Jolly article with a different accounts?! And I added "as much negative information about the incident to Jolly's bio" as I can?? Really?! So expanding one paragraph a bit with sourced content for better context is improper? And I ignore things? Have you looked at the Jolly talk page and the edit warring report you filed?? And who's been ignoring things? And get your damn facts straight. Yes, I started editing on March 17, and I didn't start editing the Jolly article until April 6, right after I read it online. So what's your point? Anyway, if what you're implying is that I'm a secret operative for Jolly, then you better damn well have something to back that up? Is there an administrator on here who can check to see if I'm doing something illicit on here and have other accounts? And who can block CFredkin if I'm not, for making these wild accusations? Yet again, more crap from CFredkin with nothing to support it. Dirroli (talk) 22:43, 10 April 2016 (UTC)
- And here CFredkin goes again with the BLP violation ("Jolly's spokesperson edits his WP bio..."). In my opinion, she probably did do it herself, but the sources do not say that. So we can't say it; in the article or even on a talk page like this. Now show us in the sources where it says she made the edits herself, CFredkin, or remove the allegation! You constantly claim to be so concerned about WP policies, yet you have no problem violating them in this regard. Dirroli (talk) 22:52, 10 April 2016 (UTC)
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- Jytdog, thanks for the info and your good advice. I appreciate it. What's most frustrating is CFredkin's ludicrous claim: "I've clearly stated my concerns regarding Dirroli's content in the Talk discussion". Any reasonable person can read the two threads on the Jolly talk page, Neutrality and RfC, and see the huge difference between my input and his. He makes an illogical claim, then, after it's shown to be false or even hypocritical, he either refuses to acknowledge it or simply changes the subject and states a new objection. Dirroli (talk) 21:07, 10 April 2016 (UTC)
- Yes, indeed. The difference is clear.CFredkin (talk) 21:12, 10 April 2016 (UTC)
- Jytdog has proven that he knows exactly what's going on, which is why he said "I am still waiting for CFredkin to write something meaningful there beyond citing strings of capital letters" and "wait for CFredkin to actually communicate". Jytdog nailed it with those two references. All you do is cite policies (BLP, POV, UNDUE) without providing any evidence that they are being violated, and you completely fail to communicate. You make complaints that consist of pure rhetoric and no substance, then never say say another word after your objection has been addressed or proven invalid. Anyway, if you are actually a sockpuppet, as is being alleged, then none of this will matter. I hope you are not. Dirroli (talk) 21:38, 10 April 2016 (UTC)
- Yes, indeed. The difference is clear.CFredkin (talk) 21:12, 10 April 2016 (UTC)
- Jytdog, thanks for the info and your good advice. I appreciate it. What's most frustrating is CFredkin's ludicrous claim: "I've clearly stated my concerns regarding Dirroli's content in the Talk discussion". Any reasonable person can read the two threads on the Jolly talk page, Neutrality and RfC, and see the huge difference between my input and his. He makes an illogical claim, then, after it's shown to be false or even hypocritical, he either refuses to acknowledge it or simply changes the subject and states a new objection. Dirroli (talk) 21:07, 10 April 2016 (UTC)
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Just for context, here's a perfect example of CFredkin making a completely illogical claim, providing absolutely nothing to back it up except for "capital letters" (as Jytdog calls it), and then refusing to communicate any further. It's from the "Neutrality" discussion on the Jolly talk page:
CFredkin: "I'll also point out that Dirroli's edit changes "confirmed" to "admitted" which is clearly WP:POV in this case."
Dirroli: "You must be joking. The campaign did admit it! And what is the headline of the primary source?![4] It's "Florida Senate Campaign Admits To Scrubbing Candidate’s Wikipedia Page". See the word "Admits" in there? When someone is accused of wrong-doing and then they confirm they did it, that's called an admission. So give us a break. Claiming that it is a POV violation to state that someone "admitted" something, especially when they obviously did, is utter nonsense."
So I respond to CFredkin's baseless allegation and show why it makes no sense, but he never says another word. If it only happened once or twice, then it wouldn't be such a big deal. But he does it as a matter of habit. He did the same thing with FuriouslySerene regarding his false claim about the spokeswoman; he makes an illogical claim, FS proves he's wrong, then he permanently stops talking.
Dirroli (talk) 21:57, 10 April 2016 (UTC)
How to guide for AE (primarily DS)
Hi Ed, I've been thinking of creating a how to guide for admins to use when enforcing arbitration decisions and implementing discretionary sanctions on individuals and on pages. I've made a start at User:Callanecc/AE how-to guide and I was hoping that you'd be willing to help out given your experience? Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 11:46, 10 April 2016 (UTC)
- If people want to leave feedback on your essay, where should they do so? At User talk:Callanecc/AE how-to guide or on your regular talk page? EdJohnston (talk) 20:33, 10 April 2016 (UTC)
- Probably User talk:Callanecc/AE how-to guide, however at this stage it's probably easier to people to help writing it and we can polish later. Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 01:00, 12 April 2016 (UTC)
Thank you -- Jolly protection
Much thanks for applying protection to the Jolly page, it's a good time to apply it. Damotclese (talk) 18:29, 10 April 2016 (UTC)
- I understand why your put back the version that existed prior to the edit warring, but you restored it to a version that both sides now agree contatins a BLP violation, where it says "Sarah Bascom confirmed that she had made edits", which undisputably is not said in any of the sources. That is why you'll see that the RfC creator changed it (version B) to say "Sarah Bascom confirmed that the campaign had made edits". So please change "she" to "the campaign" to remove the BLP violation. Thanks. Dirroli (talk) 18:43, 10 April 2016 (UTC)
- Fixed: 'she' -> 'the campaign'. EdJohnston (talk) 18:49, 10 April 2016 (UTC)
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- Thanks, Ed. I'm sorry to bother you again about this, but I just noticed that the edit war actually began earlier than you indicated. It started with this edit, which was then responded to minutes later with this edit. So it should be restored to the version just prior to these first two edits, which is this one. Dirroli (talk) 18:56, 10 April 2016 (UTC)
- The difference doesn't introduce any BLP violation that I can see. If you think it can't wait for the eventual resolution, why not use the {{edit protected}} template. EdJohnston (talk) 19:21, 10 April 2016 (UTC)
- Sorry, I guess I didn't explain myself clearly. I'm just saying that you restored to a version that existed after the edit warring started, not before. I didn't notice until after you removed the BLP violation a few minutes ago. So if you're going to restore an older version prior to any of the edit warring, it should be to the one immediatley before this one, which is what launched the edit warring. So the edit before it, this one by Jytdog, is the version it should go back to. Thanks. Dirroli (talk) 19:35, 10 April 2016 (UTC)
- How far back to go in the history is a judgment call. I think my choice is adequate. Neither side of the dispute gave a convincing explanation for why their version was better, even though both seemed very concerned about BLP. It seemed to be more a matter of personal taste. EdJohnston (talk) 20:36, 10 April 2016 (UTC)
- Ed, it's actually not a judgment call at all that this edit by CFredkin is the one that started the edit warring; he removed over 1300 bytes from the content, including sources, and the edit warring was underway from there. Further, you'll see that several editors restored the sourced content that CFredkin removed, and not a single editor supported his removals. So if you're going to restore an old version, then it is only fair to restore it to the one before that signifciant removal of content by CFredkin. Otherwise, do not restore it to an old version at all, and just leave what was there when you protected the article. And if you want a convincing explanation, read my comments in the RfC. That will lay it out for you very clearly. Thanks. Dirroli (talk) 20:56, 10 April 2016 (UTC)
- How far back to go in the history is a judgment call. I think my choice is adequate. Neither side of the dispute gave a convincing explanation for why their version was better, even though both seemed very concerned about BLP. It seemed to be more a matter of personal taste. EdJohnston (talk) 20:36, 10 April 2016 (UTC)
- Sorry, I guess I didn't explain myself clearly. I'm just saying that you restored to a version that existed after the edit warring started, not before. I didn't notice until after you removed the BLP violation a few minutes ago. So if you're going to restore an older version prior to any of the edit warring, it should be to the one immediatley before this one, which is what launched the edit warring. So the edit before it, this one by Jytdog, is the version it should go back to. Thanks. Dirroli (talk) 19:35, 10 April 2016 (UTC)
- The difference doesn't introduce any BLP violation that I can see. If you think it can't wait for the eventual resolution, why not use the {{edit protected}} template. EdJohnston (talk) 19:21, 10 April 2016 (UTC)
- Thanks, Ed. I'm sorry to bother you again about this, but I just noticed that the edit war actually began earlier than you indicated. It started with this edit, which was then responded to minutes later with this edit. So it should be restored to the version just prior to these first two edits, which is this one. Dirroli (talk) 18:56, 10 April 2016 (UTC)
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Sorry
I'm sorry for my contribution in turning this page into a battleground. I know you're just trying to help.CFredkin (talk) 22:35, 10 April 2016 (UTC)
Ed, please note CFredkin's rant above in which he again violated BLP by claiming (in his first bullet point) that the spokeswoman herself scrubbed the Wikipedia article, even though no sources say that. It appears that CFredkin is also implying in his rant that I am a Jolly operative, using different accounts to edit the article. He just spouts accusations about people with nothing to back it up. Can he be blocked for that? And, if possible, feel free to check if I'm using other accounts if you need to do that before blocking him. Dirroli (talk) 22:58, 10 April 2016 (UTC)
AfC and RNM
RM is not the place to deal with accepting AfC. It's an attempt to bypass normal procedure and could not I think therefore ever be called non=controversial. Cf. [5] DGG ( talk ) 01:43, 11 April 2016 (UTC)
- It appears that User:Bradv wanted to approve the submission, but there was a redirect in the way. See this thread for Bradv's opinion. Would you prefer a full-length requested move in such cases? I thought that the admins handling moves ought to defer to whatever was decided by the AfC approval process. EdJohnston (talk) 01:59, 11 April 2016 (UTC)
- You are correct, I did want to approve the submission, but AfC editors have tools for that. I was able to clean it up, but it would have been easier if the redirect had simply been deleted. Then the next AfC reviewer who came along (or me if I was still online) could have just accepted the article. Hope that helps. Bradv 03:20, 11 April 2016 (UTC)
- As I understand it, what BradV suggests is the best way to do it. Personally, I consider this the sort of promotional article that should never have been accepted, so I listed it at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Katie Rodan. DGG ( talk ) 04:10, 11 April 2016 (UTC)
- I've added my own opinion in the AfD. From the above, if AfC pages are presented for a move at WP:RMTR, they should simply be declined? EdJohnston (talk) 19:33, 11 April 2016 (UTC)
- As I understand it, what BradV suggests is the best way to do it. Personally, I consider this the sort of promotional article that should never have been accepted, so I listed it at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Katie Rodan. DGG ( talk ) 04:10, 11 April 2016 (UTC)
- You are correct, I did want to approve the submission, but AfC editors have tools for that. I was able to clean it up, but it would have been easier if the redirect had simply been deleted. Then the next AfC reviewer who came along (or me if I was still online) could have just accepted the article. Hope that helps. Bradv 03:20, 11 April 2016 (UTC)
Directions.
I'm in the middle of a minor squabble: where do you take questions about BLP violations for sources, not subjects? Anmccaff (talk) 21:31, 11 April 2016 (UTC)
- Why not use the article talk page to explain what the disagreement is about? The situation is confusing. On your talk page, you are in a disagreement with very experienced people. This makes it hard for me to send you to some other authority. EdJohnston (talk) 21:50, 11 April 2016 (UTC)
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- Well, the problems with the article per se are another kettle of fish; the particular question of an editor using a source which one has stridently attacked elsewhere, to the point of real BLP concerns is the only part I need help with.
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- (Nahh, I take that back, I prolly need a lot of help on the other part, too, but I ain't asking for it here.)
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- This seems to fall between (among?) several stools; BLP, RS, NLT, and so forth. Dunno which to start with. Anmccaff (talk) 23:04, 11 April 2016 (UTC)
- The rationale for your position is hard to understand. If you want to get your ideas reviewed at some other board, it is best if they are very clear to others. But whatever happens, if you continue to use the word 'libel' you are risking a block. EdJohnston (talk) 01:04, 12 April 2016 (UTC)
- This seems to fall between (among?) several stools; BLP, RS, NLT, and so forth. Dunno which to start with. Anmccaff (talk) 23:04, 11 April 2016 (UTC)
There's the start of it all; some scurrilous claims about a writer, based on ignorance of quoting conventions. Anmccaff (talk) 02:03, 12 April 2016 (UTC)
- At first I imagined you were talking about source falsification. But the mention of 'quoting conventions' leaves me at a loss. Put together a string of four or more sentences that clearly explains your point, and what you think is wrong. While doing so, please don't assume I've read everything on the whole talk page. EdJohnston (talk) 02:16, 12 April 2016 (UTC)
Headbomb claimed that Orchiston was making exagerated claims for his own involvement in early radioastronomy:
Orchison listed himself and Slee as independent discoverers in doi:10.1007/1-4020-3724-4_5. He gives a citation to a 2002 publication, but they did plenty of work on radioastronomy back in the 1940s when they worked for the CSIRO Radiophysics group. Bibcode: 2006JAHH....9...35O has plenty of citations covering that. However, this is self-puffery, because if you do read Bibcode: 2006JAHH....9...35O, you'll see that their worked at CSIRO was "inspired by the almost simultaneous arrival of three reports", one by Reber, one by Alexander, and one by the AORG. So they cannot be discoverers, because they did follow up work. Call that vandalism if you want, the article is accurate.
...and provided a cite that showed...nothing, no such thing. I pointed this out:
Slee did not claim to be a discoverer, and where does Orchison's article even claim he was involved?
The article is not accurate, at least on this narrow part, it is slanted to reflect a POV, and the course of your edits make that very, very, obvious.
After some back-and-forth, he produced his "smoking gun", complete with bolded emphasis:
:::::::I will quote "One of the wartime discoveries that provided an impetus for the post-war focus on radio astronomy was the independent detection of solar radio emission in Denmark (Schott, 1947), the United States (Reber, 1944; Southworth, 1945), England (Hey, 1946), Australia (Orchiston and Slee, 2002) and New Zealand. This paper is about Elizabeth Alexander’s investigation of solar radio emission in New Zealand during 1945." Emphasis mine. Now stop it with your hissy fit.
The names are of the authors of works cited in the bibliography, along with the date of publication, a very common citing convention. Several authors happen to be also discoverers, whose publication dates are close to the time of discovery, but not, of course, exactly at it; all but one were constrained by war-time security. Slee and Orchison, on the other hand, had written a general work much later, but nowhere within does Orchisonn (or Slee) make any questionable claims.
The only place on earth, in fact, where you can find a claim that Orchiston discovered solar radio waves, is on Wikipedia, on an old page. Written by Headbomb himself. (There used to be a few copycats, but I think they've all wised up since.) Here's the dif [[6]]
Make sense? Anmccaff (talk) 02:49, 12 April 2016 (UTC)
- An obvious improvement. But if you can say it so clearly, you must now have an idea of how to follow up. The article talk page would be a good bet. It sounds like you don't believe Orchiston claimed that Alexander was one of the discoverers of radio emissions from the sun, just one of the people who published early papers. To list her as a discoverer, one would expect to find sources that make that claim. Merely citing Alexander's own papers in the reference list of our article might not be sufficient. Do you have access to whatever Orchiston had to say about the work of Alexander? EdJohnston (talk) 03:25, 12 April 2016 (UTC)
Oh, no. Orchiston is quite sound on major questions about Alexander and solar radio emmisions. He bobbles a couple of minor details, but nothing critical, and nothing that isn't easily found elsewhere. Orchiston is, in fact, the person who has done the most , along with Sullivan, to bring the story to a wider readership. The problems with him as a source is that he concentrates on between three weeks and 3 months of a very full 30 year career, most of which was spent in other research and in teaching. Great on the cross-over with radioastronomy; glides over the radiometeorology and the radio direction finding and the plain old radio. For some one who saw this as a wartime filler job, she did an impressive amount of work.
No, my beef is the lib...BLP violation, them's the words. BLP. Especially with someone he is otherwise over-relying on a source. That's one of the things that keeps the Alexander article in the sad shape it is. The blatant WP:OWNership is the other.Anmccaff (talk) 03:51, 12 April 2016 (UTC)
Next Steps
Thank you for semi-protecting the page CKDU-FM. Should I edit the page and remove the unsourced material, or since I was involved in the complaint is that a continuation of the edit war? Just want to confirm the appropriate next step. Thanks! WayeMason (talk) 00:18, 12 April 2016 (UTC)
- Suggest waiting a couple of days. Meanwhile, you can explain on the article talk page the change you are proposing to make. EdJohnston (talk) 00:57, 12 April 2016 (UTC)
User:Mona778
Hi Ed, I'm Taichi, an administrator of Spanish Wikipedia, Yeza and I are sysops from that Wikipedia. The subject about Mona778 comes from a problem in Spanish Wikipedia, including a block of this user in January. But, I commited a unknown mistake, about the User talk blanking, frequently used by Mona in English Wikipedia and Wikimedia Commons; and I reverted several times until he reported me. Because the blanking is valid here, I stopped, but Mona inquired me and Yeza with strong insults comparing us as "gangs of Third World". Mona uses the "wikihounding" argument against us, but we have issues in our Wikipedia, we don't have time for this, if you check our contibutions, we are almost in Spanish Wikipedia not here, but Mona constantly labels against his "opponents" linking with other users without probes. We think that Mona778 apply reversely the wikihounding against us. We decided not disturb more the user, but he insists, and this is insupportable. --Taichi (talk) 05:51, 12 April 2016 (UTC)
- Hi, Regarding "the reality of the affairs," please have a look at [7]. It was a clear case of cross-wiki hounding. By the way, on some other note, it's she, not he Taichi, don't you know is an insult when you call a woman "he"? Regards (Mona778 (talk) 18:04, 12 April 2016 (UTC))
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- Mona778, see WP:AOHA. So far as I can tell User:Taichi and User:Yeza have nothing whatsoever to do with the Hazal Kaya article. They had an unrelated dispute with you back in January. You wrote in the 3RR report about Hazal Kaya, "These people are all from the same group Taichi, Yeza and now this guy, it's just shameful!" You were trying to make Davey2010 to be a member of a gang of opponents including Taichi and Yeza. The only reason Taichi responded here is that you accused her of 'shameful' behavior in the 3RR report. This assertion was apparently based on no evidence of collusion with Davey2010, and nothing that Taichi did regarding Hazal Kaya. Unsourced charges of harassment are blockable. EdJohnston (talk) 18:50, 12 April 2016 (UTC)
Talk page abuse
- 187.190.26.158 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · edit filter log · block user · block log)
User:187.190.26.158 is abusing his talk page. CLCStudent (talk) 19:00, 12 April 2016 (UTC)
- I don't see anything that needs action. But if this IP continues to vandalize when the 31-hour block expires, a longer block is likely. EdJohnston (talk) 19:09, 12 April 2016 (UTC)
A couple of things
An editor, Johnsmith, is appealing his recent block[8] for disruptive editing. Can you please handle it?
My user and talk pages have been the site of personal attacks recently. Here[9], the editing coming back and reverting[10] my deletion of his post to my user page, plus here[11] and here[12] on my talk page. Could you page protect indefinitely. I can take anything established editors dish out but IPs I have a very low regard for and limited patience since I find most doing vandalism or good faith edits that need reverting. Thanks for the help....William, is the complaint department really on the roof? 20:48, 12 April 2016 (UTC)
- I don't see a case for unblock at User talk:Johnsmith2116, but another admin might see his request and handle it.
- I've semiprotected your *user page* per your request. On your User talk:WilliamJE, there were only two IP edits in the last month. They seemed to be annoyed with your judgment but I'm unsure if they were personal attacks. If you want I can apply a month of semiprotection there. Another option is for you simply to delete these posts from IPs if they are unwelcome. EdJohnston (talk) 01:35, 13 April 2016 (UTC)
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- Thank you for the help. The article the IPs are complaining I don't observe the minutiae of, just monitor that people don't add entries for upcoming episodes that don't exist. The article has had a bad history[13] of that. (Note- Some of those crashes have since been made into episodes) If you want to read a great display of fiction at Wikipedia and perhaps have a good laugh at the same time, check out the article description here[14].
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- I didn't mean I thought Johnsmith should have his block removed, just that it should be reviewed. Due process you know. Cheers!...William, is the complaint department really on the roof? 11:53, 13 April 2016 (UTC)
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