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Galassi
Galassi may not edit about the Khazars since they are part of the topic of Ukraine. EdJohnston (talk) 14:02, 13 June 2016 (UTC) |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
Request concerning Galassi
Galassi has a long history of reverting me at sight without examining the merits of the content reverted, or explaining himself on talk pages. This brought about the A/1 decision barring him from the Khazar-related articles. He was told not to edit any articles relating to Khazars on May 10. In an appeal to User:Sandstein regarding this, Sandstein recommended my taking Galassi to AE if he broke his topic ban. I believe the above 2 diffs violate that ban and repeat the behaviour (no talk page presence, reverting me at sight) that got him banned from those articles a month ago.
Discussion concerning GalassiStatements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by GalassiThis is preposterous. By the same token I would be banned from the US Constitution because the tripartite government was originally a Ukrainian Idea. See Constitution of Pylyp Orlyk. User Nishidani is simply attempting to remove a voice opposing his tendentious editing.--Galassi (talk) 23:01, 8 June 2016 (UTC)
Statement by My very best wishesThese edits/diffs are about ancient history of Khazars, a Turkic tribe, and about genetic studies of Jews. This has nothing to do with Ukraine. The page mention people "who had migrated westward from modern Russia and Ukraine into modern France and Germany", however as clear from the diff, Galassi did not change anything about it. My very best wishes (talk) 02:33, 8 June 2016 (UTC)
@EdJohnston. After ANI discussion mentioned by Nishidani above, Galassi asked for clarification from admin who imposed the topic ban and received a clarification that Khazars were not covered by this topic ban - see here. My very best wishes (talk) 04:34, 9 June 2016 (UTC) @BMK. Let me clarify what had happen
@EDJohnston. I do not know if you have the authority to make a brand-new Khazar ban under WP:ARBEE or this needs a clarification from Arbcom, however if you do, that would be something instructive, so the user was clearly told that he can not edit in this subject area. My very best wishes (talk) 14:29, 9 June 2016 (UTC)
Statement by Beyond My KenConsidering that the article Khazar is part of the "History of Ukraine" series, and that the map makes it clear that the Khazar empire covered a significant part of Europe that would become Ukraine, I'm not seeing My very best wishes' claim that the edits had nothing to do with Galassi's Ukraine topic ban, especially since an admin has ruled that the topic ban did cover the Khazars. BMK (talk) 04:18, 8 June 2016 (UTC)
Statement by sfarneyThe Louisiana Territory is integral to the history of the North America, and the Khazar Empire is integral to the history of Ukrainia. The same stones, the same grass, the same chain of events, and an important genetic line of the Ukrainian populace. Grammar's Li'l Helper Talk 18:08, 8 June 2016 (UTC)
Statement by RolandRMy very best wishes writes "I do not see how the ancient history of Khazars is related to the ongoing Israeli-Palestinian conflict". It is related because the putative origin of European Jews from the Khazar conversion is held by many, on both sides of the dispute, to be germane to Zionist claims to Palestine. It has been argued that, if it can be established that European Jews do not descend from the biblical communities who who lived in the area 2000 years ago, then this would invalidate modern Zionist claims to the land. Therefore, many supporters of Palestinian rights will seize on any scintilla of evidence in an attempt to bolster the thesis. Conversely, many supporters of the Zionist position will attempt to discount and discredit any hint that there is an element of truth in the thesis. Unfortunately, for many people in both camps this ideological imperative outweighs any effort to establish the historical facts and to assess their significance. So the argument over 14th century Khazar history has become to some extent a surrogate for argument over more recent events in the Middle East. RolandR (talk) 12:28, 11 June 2016 (UTC)
Statement by (username)Result concerning Galassi
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Debresser
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Request concerning Debresser
- User who is submitting this request for enforcement
- Nableezy (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · edit filter log · block user · block log) 22:16, 7 June 2016 (UTC)
- User against whom enforcement is requested
- Debresser (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · edit filter log · block user · block log)
Search DS alerts: in user talk history • in system log
- Sanction or remedy to be enforced
- Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Jerusalem (I understand Im linking to an RFC here, however that RFC was mandated by ArbCom and is binding through July 9, 2016, and this topic area is covered by discretionary sanctions
- Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
- 7 June 2016 Revert in violation of binding RFC
- If discretionary sanctions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts)
- Participated in an arbitration request or enforcement procedure about the area of conflict in the last twelve months, on 15 March 2016.
- Additional comments by editor filing complaint
There was a binding RFC on claims to Jerusalem being capital of Israel and Palestine and its location that was mandated by the Arbitration Committee (Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Jerusalem). That RFC resulted in the material currently in the lead of the Jerusalem article and per the Arbitration Committee is binding for three years. A user added material to the lead that violated that RFC, was reverted, which was also reverted. This was prior to any talk page discussion. I reverted that final revert and opened a talk page section detailing why (here, with the user I had reverted agreeing that the material shouldnt be included. Debresser then ignores the binding RFC and re-reverts, writing in the talk page Sourced, relevant, neutrally worded. The Rfc is expiring. The Rfc avoided the issue. All in all, ample reason to keep this addition. By the way, is there anything you think is wrong with the text, apart from bureaucratic arguments? When Debresser was reverted he or she posted to that users talkpage that their revert was "hothead revert" (here). Im not quite sure why this user thinks that binding means something other than all users have to follow this, but a reminder is surely in order.
Re the idea that this is a personal issue, no, not at all. Debresser is the only one to have reverted following the explanation that the material violated a binding RFC. And when asked to revert declined to do so. And then complained when somebody reverted him or her. Debresser's comment on the talk page of that article implied that he or she felt that a binding RFC did not apply to him or her. That is what brought me here. nableezy - 00:09, 8 June 2016 (UTC)
Sorry Debresser, I guess an edit summary that says the RFC is expiring in a month, a comment on the talk page saying the edit should stand, a comment on the talk page of the person that reverted you calling their revert hotheaded, those things dont lead to the reasonable conclusion that a. you knew that you were prohibited from making said edit due to a binding revert, b. didnt care, and c. wouldnt self-revert. Silly me, where could I have possibly gotten that idea. You know what I find disruptive? Editors thinking the rules that apply to everybody else dont apply to them. Editors who knowingly revert against a consensus (thats what an RFC determines fyi). Basically, you. nableezy - 21:11, 8 June 2016 (UTC)
@OID, I object to that edit on a number of grounds. However, the rule breaking is what is relevant on this board for a topic area that is covered under discretionary sanctions. Bright line rules only work if when somebody breaks them there isnt hand waving about well its only a technicality.
- Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested
Discussion concerning Debresser
Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.
Statement by Debresser
Nableezy seems to have a personal issue with me, because of the three editors who made this same edit,[7][8][9] I am the only one he is reporting. Nableezy has a huge POV in the I/P-conflict area, and we have conflicted on many articles already. He is now trying to fight his personal vendetta against me through the editors at WP:AE. I think that is fair reason to dismiss this report. Recently he engaged in an edit wat at Ancient synagogues in Palestine,[10][11][12] for which I decided not to report him. I am disappointed that he should repay me in this way.
As to the actual matter at hand, I think Talk:Jerusalem#addition_to_the_lead is where the discussion is taking place, and where I have made my arguments, and have already stated, that I will not challenge the Rfc, which stands till July 9. At the same time, I think the issue will have to be re-visited in the near future, if only to avoid edit wars, blocks and a lot of bad blood, and the proposed edit is a very good NPOV candidate, summing up the issue well and along the same lines as the Rfc.
In short, I think this report should boomerang back on Nableezy for the blatant personal motives behind this report, as well as his own recent WP:ARBPIA violations on "Ancient synagogues in Palestine".Debresser (talk) 23:36, 7 June 2016 (UTC)
@EdJohnson The 9 July date comes from counting 3 years after the Rfc reached a conclusion. Debresser (talk) 09:51, 8 June 2016 (UTC)
@Nableezy No need to say things you can't possibly know. I didn't refuse to revert. Somebody else reverted my edit even before I read your post on my talkpage. You continue with your bad faith assumptions, viewing Wikipedia as a battlefield, and me as the enemy. I find this attitude of yours disruptive. Debresser (talk) 21:01, 8 June 2016 (UTC)
@GoldenRing I know it is not advised to antagonize editors here, but I don't understand what further "backing down" is needed, after I have already stated both here and on the talkpage that I will not challenge the status quo? You did read my posts here and on the talkpage, didn't you? Debresser (talk) 10:56, 10 June 2016 (UTC) @GoldenRing In view of the above, neither do I understand what you claim I am "doubling down on". Debresser (talk) 19:06, 12 June 2016 (UTC)
@GoldenRing The Rfc specifically states that the consensus reached in it is binding only for a 3-year period. There is no rule on Wikipedia that an Rfc is needed to establish consensus, including to establish if there has been a change of consensus. A simple talkpage discussion, or even a bold edit that is accepted by the community, per definition can establish a new consensus. Debresser (talk) 11:35, 10 June 2016 (UTC)
Statement by OID
Ed, dates from RFC's are always taken from the closure of an RFC as that is the point at which consensus has been determined by the closer. There would be no point in a fixed for 3 years consensus being valid until the actual consensus was determined. Saying that, it would still be up in a month anyway, so suggest close with trouts for everyone. Nableezy, if you have to rely on technical rule-breaking to revert an edit, rather than addressing the substance of the edit, it tends to get peoples backs up. 'Would this edit be controversial in a months time?' should be the question you ask yourself. Only in death does duty end (talk) 10:28, 8 June 2016 (UTC)
Comment by GoldenRing
I think Timoetheus has the right of it here; RfCs do not expire as such. Consensus can change, but the right way to go about changing consensus established in an RfC is a new RfC, not gung-ho edits to the article before the time limit established by the RfC has even expired and especially not in an article as contentious as this one. I suggest User:Debresser backs down and apologises and we let this lie; if not, sanctions are probably appropriate. GoldenRing (talk) 10:21, 10 June 2016 (UTC)
@Debresser: Consensus is always binding. It doesn't expire. I read the three-year limit in that RfC as essentially the same as a moratorium on further discussion. But however you read it, the essential point is that it hasn't expired. Of course it doesn't take an RfC to establish consensus - but when one has been held, a change made without any discussion whatsoever doesn't cut it. Since you're doubling down on this, I can't see what else to recommend but sanctions. GoldenRing (talk) 21:35, 10 June 2016 (UTC)
Statement by ZScarpia
Consensus-wise, where things will probably now turn ugly is that there are perceptions among some editors that consensus is established by carrying out a show of hands and that personal opinions, rather than the contents of reliable sources, establish what is factual and what is neutral. ← ZScarpia 17:35, 11 June 2016 (UTC)
Statement by (username)
Result concerning Debresser
- This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.
- The original Arbcom motion was passed on December 27, 2012. It provided that the ban on changing the lead of Jerusalem 'will be binding for three years from the adoption of this motion'. To me, that implies December 27, 2015, so the freeze on changing the lead has already expired. The RfC closers stated that 'this decision is binding for three years' on 9 July, 2013 but I don't see that the closers were given authority to change the date specified in Arbcom's own motion. EdJohnston (talk) 05:05, 8 June 2016 (UTC)
- Ed makes an interesting point. I do not recall any discussion about it, but then when we passed the appointments motion I don't think any of us expected the process to take half a year to conclude.
That said, in my view, even after the three-year period ends, the conclusions reached in the RFC remain consensus until and unless the existence of a different consensus is demonstrated, and until then edits that are substantially contrary to those conclusions remain sanctionable under DS for failure to "comply with all applicable policies and guidelines" and "follow editorial and behavioural best practice" (see WP:AC/DS#guide.expect). T. Canens (talk) 05:22, 8 June 2016 (UTC)
- If we accept T. Canens' view, we should place a new banner on the talk page of Jerusalem. We should tell editors they are risking a block if they change the lead away from the 2013 RfC version before such time as a different consensus is demonstrated. EdJohnston (talk) 03:15, 12 June 2016 (UTC)
Jake vela
Wrong venue. This is a community sanction, not an arbitration sanction. Reports should be taken to either WP:ANI or WP:AN3. T. Canens (talk) 23:04, 13 June 2016 (UTC) |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Jake vela
Broken 1RR on an article covered by general sanctions. Orlando Nightclub Shooting.
Simple as 1, 2, 3 here, in my opinion. TJH2018talk 20:23, 13 June 2016 (UTC)
Discussion concerning Jake velaStatements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by Jake velaStatement by (username)Result concerning Jake vela
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OptimusView
OptimusView has been blocked indef as a sock per an SPI report. EdJohnston (talk) 15:35, 13 June 2016 (UTC) |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
Request concerning OptimusView
[13] I warned him personally a few years ago, and there's a warning in the article edit window. Grandmaster 23:07, 11 June 2016 (UTC)
2016 Armenian–Azerbaijani clashes is placed on discretionary sanctions, and editors cannot make more than 1 rv in 24 hours. The warning is clearly displayed in the editing window, so everyone editing the article is well aware of it. OptimusView violated 1rr, but in addition, he wages a slow edit war over a description in the infobox, claiming a consensus (or lack of it), when clearly more editors at talk oppose to his version, and only one editor supports him. I see no real attempt at compromise on his part either. It would be good to have a community intervention into this situation, before it gets out of hand. Grandmaster 23:07, 11 June 2016 (UTC) OptimusView, removal of content is considered an rv. According to WP:3RR: "A "revert" means any edit (or administrative action) that reverses the actions of other editors, in whole or in part, whether involving the same or different material". In particular, this edit is an rv of my recent edit. So that was in fact 3 rvs within 24 hours. Grandmaster 09:15, 12 June 2016 (UTC)
Discussion concerning OptimusViewStatements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by OptimusViewI reverted just one time here [15]. The next edit [16] is not even a revert, I just deleted (as far as I can see, for the first time in the history of the page) a phrase which wasn't explained at talk and an unreliable person (a political activist) is cited as an analyst. And my two edits have nothing to do with each other (so it is not a violation of 1rr), they are completely different edits, and I could made them in one action, but I made them separately to explain in editsummary, why Babayan shouldn't be mentioned. Nothing more. OptimusView (talk) 04:01, 12 June 2016 (UTC)
Statement by (username)Result concerning OptimusView
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