Deletion discussions |
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Proposed deletion |
Categories for discussion (CfD) is the central venue for discussing specific proposals to delete, merge, rename or split categories and stub types in accordance with the guidelines for categorization, category naming and stub articles.
For detailed instructions about using CfD, see "How to use CfD" below. Briefly, nominations are handled through one of two processes:
- Speedy renaming and merging, for uncontroversial proposals that meet specified criteria—see "Speedy renaming and merging" below.
- Full discussion, for all other proposals. Discussions typically remain open at least seven days and are closed once a rough consensus has formed or no objections to the nomination are raised.
Except in uncontroversial cases such as reverting vandalism, do not amend or depopulate a category once it has been nominated at CfD as this hampers other editors' efforts to evaluate a category and participate in the discussion.
When a category is renamed or merged with another category, in limited circumstances it may be helpful to leave an instance of the {{Category redirect|...}} template on the category's former page. See "Redirecting categories" below for more information.
Wikipedia:Move review can be used to contest the outcome of a CfD request that is limited in scope to renaming, as long as all steps are followed. If a discussion on the request closer's talk page does not resolve an issue, then a move review will evaluate the close of a CfD move discussion to determine whether or not the close was reasonable and consistent with the spirit and intent of common practice, policies, and guidelines. CfDs involving deletion should be reviewed at Wikipedia:Deletion review.
Contents
Scope
CfD is intended only for specific proposals to delete, merge, rename or split categories or stub types. For general discussion about how to improve the category system, use other appropriate venues such as Wikipedia talk:Categorization, Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Categories, and any relevant WikiProjects' talk pages.
Current discussions
Discussions awaiting closure
- Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2019 April 9 (15 open)
- Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2019 April 8 (9 open)
- Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2019 April 7 (7 open)
- Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2019 April 6 (8 open)
- Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2019 April 5 (2 open)
- Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2019 April 4 (2 open)
- Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2019 April 3 (2 open)
- Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2019 April 2 (2 open)
- Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2019 March 30 (1 open)
- Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2019 March 29 (3 open)
- Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2019 March 24 (2 open)
- Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2019 March 23 (1 open)
- Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2019 March 22 (1 open)
- Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2019 March 21 (4 open)
- Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2019 March 20 (4 open)
- Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2019 March 19 (1 open)
- Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2019 March 17 (2 open)
- Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2019 March 16 (3 open)
- Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2019 March 15 (1 open)
- Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2019 March 14 (2 open)
- Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2019 March 12 (3 open)
- Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2019 March 11 (1 open)
- Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2019 March 10 (5 open)
- Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2019 March 9 (3 open)
- Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2019 March 8 (1 open)
- Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2019 March 6 (1 open)
- Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2019 March 4 (1 open)
- Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2019 March 1 (1 open)
- Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2019 February 23 (2 open)
- Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2019 February 22 (1 open)
- Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2019 February 21 (1 open)
- Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2019 February 15 (1 open)
- Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2019 January 31 (1 open)
- Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2019 January 12 (1 open)
See also the list of individual discussions awaiting closure here and the list of full open discussions awaiting closure here.
How to use CfD
Nomination procedure
Twinkle
You may use Twinkle to facilitate CfD nominations. To install Twinkle, go to Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-gadgets and check "Twinkle" in the "Browsing" section. Use the now-installed "XfD" (Nominate for deletion) tab while viewing the page you want to nominate.
Twinkle only allows you to nominate a single category. For bundled nominations including multiple categories, or if you prefer not to use Twinkle, follow the manual steps below.
Manual nominations
I | Preliminary steps.
Before nominating a category:
In the following special cases:
For further information, see Wikipedia:Categorization and Wikipedia:Manual of Style. |
II | Edit the category.
Add one of the following templates at the beginning of the category page (not the talk page) of every category to be discussed. For nominations involving large numbers of categories, help adding these templates can be requested here.
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III | Create the CFD section.
Follow the instructions (visible in edit mode) to copy and paste one of the templates below. When inserting category names into these template's parameters, except the
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Stub types
I | Preliminary steps.
In general, a stub type consists of a stub template and a dedicated stub category. Before nominating a stub type for deletion, merging or renaming:
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II | Edit the template.
Add one of the following tags at the beginning of the template to be discussed.
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III | Create the CFD section.
Follow the instructions (visible in edit mode) and paste the following text (remember to update TemplateName, ProposedName and Reason): For ==== Template:TemplateName ==== :* '''Propose deleting''' {{lt|TemplateName}} :'''Nominator's rationale:''' Reason. ~~~~ For ==== Template:TemplateName ==== :* '''Propose renaming''' [[Template:TemplateName]] to [[Template:ProposedName]] :'''Nominator's rationale:''' Reason. ~~~~
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Notifying interested projects and editors
In addition to the steps listed above, you may choose to invite participation by editors who are likely to be informed about a nominated category. All such efforts must comply with Wikipedia's guideline against biased canvassing. In addition, to help make your messages about the CfD discussion clear, avoid Wikipedia-specific abbreviations, link to relevant policies or guidelines, and link to the discussion itself.
- Notifying related WikiProjects
WikiProjects consist of groups of editors who are interested in a particular subject. If a nominated category is within the scope of one or more WikiProjects, consider adding a brief, neutral note on their talk page(s) about the nomination. You may use {{subst:cfd-notify|Category name|2019 April 17|CfD section name}} ~~~~
or write a personalized message.
Tagging the nominated category's talk page with a relevant WikiProject's banner will include the category in that WikiProject's Article Alerts if they subscribe to the system. For instance, tagging a nominated category with {{WikiProject Physics}} will add the discussion to Wikipedia:WikiProject Physics/Article alerts.
- Notifying substantial contributors to the category
While not required, it is generally considered courteous to notify the good-faith creator and main contributors of the category that you are nominating for discussion. To find the creator and main contributors, check the category's page history or talk page. You may use {{Cfd-notify}}
to inform the category's creator and {{Cfdnotice2}}
for all other editors.
- Notifying other interested editors
It may be helpful to invite other subject-matter experts by posting a message on the talk page of the most closely related article, such as Protein family for Category:Protein families. You may use {{Cfdnotice}}
for this.
Closing procedure
After seven days, someone will close the discussion according to the consensus that formed or, if needed, relist it to allow more discussion. Editors closing discussions must follow the administrator instructions and, except in the case of a "keep" or "no consensus" outcome, implement the result or log it at the Working page to ensure it is implemented.
Redirecting categories
In general, an unpopulated category should be deleted (see speedy deletion criterion C1) because it is not useful for navigation and sorting. In limited circumstances, and because categories cannot be redirected using "hard" redirects (i.e. #REDIRECT[[''target'']]
), we use a form of "soft redirect" to solve the issue. You can "create" a category redirect by adding {{Category redirect|target}}
to the category page. Bots patrol these categories and move articles into the "redirect" targets.
In particular, category redirects are used at the former category name when we convert hyphens into en dashes (e.g. Category:Canada-Russia relations → Category:Canada–Russia relations). It is also helpful to set up category redirects from titles with plain letters (i.e. characters on a standard keyboard) where the category names include diacritics.
A list of redirected categories is available at Category:Wikipedia soft redirected categories.
Speedy renaming and merging
Speedy renaming or speedy merging of categories may be requested only if they meet a speedy criterion, for example WP:C2D (consistency with main article's name) or WP:C2C (consistency with established category tree names). Please see instructions below.
- Determine which speedy criterion applies
- Tag category with
{{subst:cfr-speedy|New name}}
- List request along with speedy criteria reason under "Current requests" below on this page
Please note that a speedy request must state which of the narrowly defined criteria strictly applies. Hence, any other non-speedy criteria, even "common sense" or "obvious", may be suitable points but only at a full discussion at WP:Categories for discussion.
Request may take 48 hours to process after listing if there are no objections. This delay allows other users to review the request to ensure that it meets the speedy criteria for speedy renaming or merging, and to raise objections to the proposed change.
Categories that qualify for speedy deletion (per Wikipedia:Criteria for speedy deletion, e.g. "patent nonsense", "recreation") can be tagged with the regular speedy tags, such as {{db|reason}}
with no required delay. Empty categories can be deleted if they remain empty 7 days after tagging with {{db-empty}}. Renaming under C2E can also be processed instantly as it is a variation on G7.
Contested speedy requests become stale, and can be un-tagged and de-listed after 7 days of inactivity. Optionally, if the discussion may be useful for future reference, it may be copied to the category talk page, with a section heading and {{moved discussion from|[[WP:CFDS]]|2=~~~~}}
. If the nominator wants to continue the process, it may be requested regularly at WP:Categories for discussion (CfD) in accordance with its instructions.
Speedy criteria
The category-specific criteria for speedy renaming, or merging are strictly limited to:
C2A: Typographic and spelling fixes
- Correction of spelling errors and capitalization fixes. Differences between British and American spelling (e.g. Harbours → Harbors) are not considered errors; however if the convention of the relevant category tree is to use one form over the other then a rename may be appropriate under C2C. If both spellings exist as otherwise-identical category names, they should be merged.
- Appropriate conversion of hyphens into en dashes or vice versa (e.g. Category:Canada-Russia relations → Category:Canada–Russia relations).
C2B: Consistency with established Wikipedia naming conventions and practices
- Expanding abbreviated country names (e.g. U.S. → United States).
- Disambiguation fixes from an unqualified name (e.g. Category:Washington → Category:Washington (state) or Category:Washington, D.C.).
C2C: Consistency with established category tree names
Bringing a category into line with established naming conventions for that category tree, or into line with the various "x by y", "x of y", or "x in y" categorization conventions specified at Wikipedia:Category names
- This should be used only where there is no room for doubt that the category in question is being used for the standard purpose instead of being a potential subcategory.
- This criterion should be applied only when there is no ambiguity or doubt over the existence of a category naming convention. Such a convention must be well defined and must be overwhelmingly used within the tree. If this is not the case then the category in question must be brought forward to a full Cfd nomination.
- This criterion will not apply in cases where the category tree observes distinctions in local usage (e.g. Category:Transportation in the United States and Category:Transport in the United Kingdom).
C2D: Consistency with main article's name
- Renaming a topic category to match its eponymous page (e.g. Category:The Beatles and The Beatles).
- This applies only if the related page's current name (and by extension, the proposed name for the category) is unambiguous, and uncontroversial – either because of longstanding stability at that particular name, or because the page was just moved (i) after a page move discussion resulted in explicit consensus to rename, or (ii) unilaterally to reflect an official renaming which is verified by one or more citations (provided in the nomination). If the page names are controversial or ambiguous in any way, then this criterion does not apply, even if an article is the primary topic of its name.
- This criterion also does not apply if there is any ongoing discussion about the name of the page or category, or if there has been a recent discussion concerning any of the pages that resulted in a no consensus result.
C2E: Author request
- This criterion applies only if the author of a category requests or agrees to renaming within six months of creating the category.
- The criterion does not apply if other editors have populated or changed the category since it was created. "Other editors" includes bots that populated the category, but excludes an editor working with the author on the renaming.
Admin instructions
When handling the listings:
- Make sure that the listing meets one of the above criteria.
- With the exception of C2E, make sure that it was both listed and tagged at least 48 hours previously.
- Make sure that there are no oppositions to the listing; if there is a discussion, check if the opposing user(s) ended up withdrawing the opposition(s).
If the listing meets these criteria, simply have the category renamed - follow the instructions at Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Administrator instructions, in the section "If the decision is Delete, Merge, or Rename"; to list it for the bots, use the Speedy moves section.
Applying speedy criteria in full discussions
- A nomination to merge or rename, brought forward as a full CfD, may be speedily closed if the closing administrator is satisfied that:
- The nomination clearly falls within the scope of one of the criteria listed here, and
- No objections have been made within 48 hours of the initial nomination.
- If both these conditions are satisfied, the closure will be regarded as having been as a result of a speedy nomination. If any objections have been raised then the CfD nomination will remain in place for the usual 7-day discussion period, to be decided in accordance with expressed consensus.
Add requests for speedy renaming and merging here
If the category and desired change do not match one of the criteria mentioned in C2, do not list it here. Instead, list it in the main CFD section.
If you are in any doubt as to whether it qualifies, do not list it here.
Use the following format on a new line at the beginning of the list:
* [[:Category:old name]] to [[:Category:new name]] – Reason ~~~~
This will sign and datestamp an entry automatically.
Remember to tag the category with: {{subst:Cfr-speedy|New name}}
A request may be completed if it is more than 48 hours old; that is, if the time stamp shown is earlier than 01:02, 15 April 2019 (UTC). Currently, there are 62 open requests (. )
Current requests
- Category:2017 African U-20 Championship to Category:2017 Africa U-20 Cup of Nations – C2D per 2017 Africa U-20 Cup of Nations. – Fayenatic London 22:23, 16 April 2019 (UTC)
- Category:Sacred sites to Category:Holy places – Main article Holy place. PPEMES (talk) 22:04, 16 April 2019 (UTC)
- Hmm, maybe. The sub-cats are all "Sacred X" and where they have lead articles, these match, e.g. Sacred mountains and Sacred grove. – Fayenatic London 22:27, 16 April 2019 (UTC)
- Category:Universidade Estadual de Campinas faculty to Category:University of Campinas faculty – Per its parent category ("Category:University of Campinas") and article ("University of Campinas").Russian Rocky (talk) 21:31, 16 April 2019 (UTC)
- Category:Universidade Estadual de Campinas alumni to Category:University of Campinas alumni – Per its parent category ("Category:University of Campinas") and article ("University of Campinas").Russian Rocky (talk) 21:31, 16 April 2019 (UTC)
- Category:People associated with the Universidade Estadual de Campinas to Category:People associated with the University of Campinas – Per its parent category ("Category:University of Campinas") and article ("University of Campinas").Russian Rocky (talk) 21:31, 16 April 2019 (UTC)
- Category:People associated with University of São Paulo to Category:People associated with the University of São Paulo – The definite article is missing.Russian Rocky (talk) 21:31, 16 April 2019 (UTC)
- Category:S.S. Monza 1912 players to Category:A.C. Monza players – C2D per: A.C. Monza. Nehme1499 (talk) 10:22, 16 April 2019 (UTC)
- Category:A.C. Monza Brianza 1912 managers to Category:A.C. Monza managers – C2D per: A.C. Monza. Nehme1499 (talk) 10:22, 16 April 2019 (UTC)
- Category:A.C. Monza Brianza 1912 to Category:A.C. Monza – C2D per: A.C. Monza. Nehme1499 (talk) 10:22, 16 April 2019 (UTC)
- Category:Notre Dame de Paris to Category:Notre-Dame de Paris - C2D per Notre-Dame de Paris. Trivialist (talk) 02:51, 16 April 2019 (UTC)
- Category:Troma Entertainment films to Category:Troma Entertainment – C2D per: Troma Entertainment -- Netoholic @ 02:34, 16 April 2019 (UTC)
- Oppose Goes against the naming of convention of Category:American films by studio. (STUDIONAME films). Armbrust The Homunculus 15:46, 16 April 2019 (UTC)
- Category:The Toxic Avenger (series) to Category:The Toxic Avenger – C2D per: The Toxic Avenger -- Netoholic @ 02:30, 16 April 2019 (UTC)
- Oppose The Toxic Avenger is a dab page, so that can't be the main article. Armbrust The Homunculus 15:42, 16 April 2019 (UTC)
- Category:Fort Lauderdale Strikers to Category:Fort Lauderdale Strikers (2006–2016) – C2D: See Fort Lauderdale Strikers (2006–2016). Steel1943 (talk) 01:08, 16 April 2019 (UTC)
- @Steel1943: Comment If this is renamed then some categories would need to be removed from it (like Category:Fort Lauderdale Strikers (1977–83)). Armbrust The Homunculus 15:39, 16 April 2019 (UTC)
- @Armbrust: Something like that, from what I saw. I'm thinking Category:Fort Lauderdale Strikers may need to become a {{Category disambiguation}} page after the category is moved and all pages in the category are moved to the new name. Steel1943 (talk) 15:53, 16 April 2019 (UTC)
- @Steel1943: Comment If this is renamed then some categories would need to be removed from it (like Category:Fort Lauderdale Strikers (1977–83)). Armbrust The Homunculus 15:39, 16 April 2019 (UTC)
- Category:Nazi propaganda organisations to Category:Nazi propaganda organizations – C2C: per parents Category:Nazi Party organizations, Category:Propaganda organizations. Oculi (talk) 10:05, 15 April 2019 (UTC)
- Category:20th Knesset (2015–) to Category:20th Knesset (2015–19) – C2C in Knesset; sub-cat was renamed by user:Number 57 without this one. – Fayenatic London 08:37, 15 April 2019 (UTC)
- Category:Nigerian insurance businesspeople to Category:Nigerian businesspeople in insurance – C2C: per the convention in Category:Businesspeople in insurance. Armbrust The Homunculus 23:44, 14 April 2019 (UTC)
- Category:Commissioners of the New York City Police Department to Category:New York City Police Commissioners – C2D: per New York City Police Commissioner. Armbrust The Homunculus 23:40, 14 April 2019 (UTC)
- Category:Los Angeles Police Department Chiefs to Category:Chiefs of the Los Angeles Police Department – C2D: per Chief of the Los Angeles Police Department. Armbrust The Homunculus 23:39, 14 April 2019 (UTC)
- Category:Metropolitan Police Department of the District of Columbia Chiefs to Category:Chiefs of the Metropolitan Police Department of the District of Columbia – C2D: per Chief of the Metropolitan Police Department of the District of Columbia. Armbrust The Homunculus 23:37, 14 April 2019 (UTC)
- Category:Epsilon esports players to Category:Epsilon Esports players – C2A: per Epsilon Esports. Armbrust The Homunculus 23:10, 14 April 2019 (UTC)
- Category:Battles of the Xiongnu to Category:Battles involving the Xiongnu – C2B: per naming convention for battles. Zanhe (talk) 21:22, 14 April 2019 (UTC)
- Category:St. Louis Commissioner of Police to Category:St. Louis Commissioners of Police – C2A, cats are plurals Le Deluge (talk) 09:45, 13 April 2019 (UTC)
- Le Deluge Comment The main article of the category is Commissioner of Police of the Metropolitan Police Department, City of St. Louis, so this should probably be renamed to Category:Commissioners of Police of the Metropolitan Police Department, City of St. Louis. Armbrust The Homunculus 23:35, 14 April 2019 (UTC)
Opposed requests
- Category:Detroit Titans football to Category:Detroit Mercy Titans football – C2B/C2D. The university now athletically goes by "Detroit Mercy" instead of just "Detroit" and all articles were already moved by other editors some time ago. Just wanted to get the categories in line as well. SportsGuy789 (talk) 15:58, 9 April 2019 (UTC)
- Category:Detroit Titans football coaches to Category:Detroit Mercy Titans football coaches
- Category:Detroit Titans football players to Category:Detroit Mercy Titans football players
- Category:Detroit Titans football navigational boxes to Category:Detroit Mercy Titans navigational boxes
- Category:Detroit Titans football seasons to Category:Detroit Mercy Titans football seasons
- Agreed as WP:C2D, as Detroit_Mercy_Titans was moved just over a year ago. [1] – Fayenatic London 16:31, 9 April 2019 (UTC)
- Oppose moves of football-specific categories; support all others. The University of Detroit Mercy, in its current form, has never sponsored football. The University of Detroit did have a football team, but dropped the sport after the 1964 season—more than a quarter-century before the 1990 merger that created the current UDM. There's precedent for keeping the historic names of defunct football programs in category names—see Category:Nebraska–Omaha Mavericks football under Category:Omaha Mavericks; the University of Nebraska Omaha dropped football before it rebranded its athletic program as "Omaha". — Dale Arnett (talk) 18:50, 9 April 2019 (UTC)
- Additional comment: The main page for the football program has never been moved; it's still at Detroit Titans football. — Dale Arnett (talk) 04:06, 10 April 2019 (UTC)
- Oppose moves of football-specific categories. The football program was disbanded in the mid 1960s prior to the merger which resulted in the creation of Detroit Mercy. The football program was known as the "Detroit Titans", never as the "Detroit Mercy Titans." Cbl62 (talk) 21:33, 9 April 2019 (UTC)
- Oppose moves of football-specific categories per Cbl62 and Dale Arnett Jweiss11 (talk) 23:20, 9 April 2019 (UTC)
- Category:Basketball players at the 2011 NCAA Women's Division I Final Four to Category:Basketball players at the 2011 NCAA Division I Women's Final Four – C2D per parent category and main article name of NCAA Division I Women's Basketball Tournament. — Dale Arnett (talk) 03:12, 9 April 2019 (UTC)
- Category:Basketball players at the 2012 NCAA Women's Division I Final Four to Category:Basketball players at the 2012 NCAA Division I Women's Final Four
- Category:Basketball players at the 2013 NCAA Women's Division I Final Four to Category:Basketball players at the 2013 NCAA Division I Women's Final Four
- Category:Basketball players at the 2014 NCAA Women's Division I Final Four to Category:Basketball players at the 2014 NCAA Division I Women's Final Four
- Category:Basketball players at the 2015 NCAA Women's Division I Final Four to Category:Basketball players at the 2015 NCAA Division I Women's Final Four
- Oppose speedy C2D doesn't really apply, because NCAA Division I Women's Final Four doesn't exist. Also if the main article is NCAA Division I Women's Basketball Tournament, than these should be renamed to "Basketball players at the XXXX NCAA Division I Women's Basketball Tournament Final Four". Armbrust The Homunculus 09:35, 9 April 2019 (UTC)
- Withdrawing speedy; I'd like someone else to move it to full. I'll state up front that the only place I think the word "basketball" is needed in the proposed category title is as the opening word, because the phrase "Final Four", at least in the US, is used only for the NCAA Division I and III basketball tournaments. The NCAA holds the trademark to the term, and only uses in in those tournaments. (Note that the final round of the Division II men's and women's tournaments is the Elite Eight instead of Final Four.) While other NCAA tournaments have a four-team final round, other phrases are used, such as the "College Cup" in soccer and "Frozen Four" in ice hockey. — Dale Arnett (talk) 18:39, 9 April 2019 (UTC)
- Oppose speedy C2D doesn't really apply, because NCAA Division I Women's Final Four doesn't exist. Also if the main article is NCAA Division I Women's Basketball Tournament, than these should be renamed to "Basketball players at the XXXX NCAA Division I Women's Basketball Tournament Final Four". Armbrust The Homunculus 09:35, 9 April 2019 (UTC)
- Category:Standards organizations in the Netherlands to Category:Standards organisations in the Netherlands – C2C: per the convention in Category:Organisations based in the Netherlands. Armbrust The Homunculus 08:19, 5 April 2019 (UTC)
- Category:Paramilitary organizations based in the Netherlands to Category:Paramilitary organisations based in the Netherlands
- Category:Nonviolence organizations based in the Netherlands to Category:Nonviolence organisations based in the Netherlands
- Category:Consumer organizations in the Netherlands to Category:Consumer organisations in the Netherlands
- Category:Child-related organizations in the Netherlands to Category:Child-related organisations in the Netherlands
- Oppose. @Armbrust, it's time to standardise on the "Z" spelling. See the RFC at Wikipedia:Village pump (policy)#RFC:_spelling_of_"organisation"/"organization"_in_descriptive_category_names. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 11:26, 5 April 2019 (UTC)
- Category:Autonomous Region in Muslim Mindanao geography stubs to Category:Bangsamoro geography stubs – C2C/C2D per successor region Bangsamoro RioHondo (talk) 17:53, 2 April 2019 (UTC)
- Oppose for the same reason as bellow. Armbrust The Homunculus 07:38, 3 April 2019 (UTC)
- You know that that is being inacurrate and that no places or geographic entities can exist in a dead region. Even the regional government website already redirects to new regional entity https://armm.gov.ph. Take a look at the contents of the above geography stubs category. Most of them are articles on municipalities that left the old region, now defunct, and formed this new one through a legitimate plebiscite. The speed by which wikipedia updates its information to provide accuracy at all times is lost to bureaucracy.--RioHondo (talk) 16:59, 3 April 2019 (UTC)
- Oppose for the same reason as bellow. Armbrust The Homunculus 07:38, 3 April 2019 (UTC)
- Category:People from the Autonomous Region in Muslim Mindanao to Category:People from Bangsamoro –C2D/C2C Newly inaugurated region replaced defunct region RioHondo (talk) 18:04, 30 March 2019 (UTC)
- Category:Populated places in the Autonomous Region in Muslim Mindanao to Category:Populated places in Bangsamoro
- Category:Cities in the Autonomous Region in Muslim Mindanao to Category:Cities in Bangsamoro
- Category:Municipalities of the Autonomous Region in Muslim Mindanao to Category:Municipalities of Bangsamoro
- Category:Provincial governors in the Autonomous Region in Muslim Mindanao to Category:Provincial governors in Bangsamoro
- Category:Politics of the Autonomous Region in Muslim Mindanao to Category:Politics of Bangsamoro
- The defunct region still has it's own article (Autonomous Region in Muslim Mindanao) and own categorys (Category:Autonomous Region in Muslim Mindanao so oppose these moves. Armbrust The Homunculus 18:19, 31 March 2019 (UTC)
- I can create new subcats for the new region it was replaced with, sure. But the above permcats would be emptied as no region can co-exist with another in the same territorial jurisdiction. The defunct article and few subcategories are kept for historical purpose and only those that pertain to its defunct government structure and political history. But the above People, Populated places, Politics, they continue under the new region.--RioHondo (talk) 20:09, 1 April 2019 (UTC)
- The defunct region still has it's own article (Autonomous Region in Muslim Mindanao) and own categorys (Category:Autonomous Region in Muslim Mindanao so oppose these moves. Armbrust The Homunculus 18:19, 31 March 2019 (UTC)
- Oppose. The dead ARMM existed. Someone who was alive during the ARMM days and is now dead can claim not to be from the Bangsamoro Region, and categorizing someone who is from not "that place" is outright false. The geographical extend of the ARMM and Bangsamoro (and indeed the ARMM during its existence) wasn't coterminous, so it wasn't a simple renaming. This like saying Pocahontas is from the United States. Howard the Duck (talk) 00:53, 3 April 2019 (UTC)
- If ever this is sent to the usual CFD, I request the removal of the ARMM categories be reverted until there's consensus for renaming or deletion. Howard the Duck (talk) 00:57, 3 April 2019 (UTC)
- @Howard the Duck Yup, we can continue discussing this in CFD. But a person born between 1989 and 2018 who is from that region will be a hard find. Remember this only existed for less than 20 years, and so those people categorized as from being the ARMM are actually inacurrate, as i said you have to be born from August 1989 and Feb 26 2019 to be accurately categorized as such (which luckily we don't have, as the people from region category is just a container category with links to people by individual component province as we do most other regional people categories). All of the above permcats were container categories, no article really fell under any of them as we do articles per province here really. We don't do people by historical entities here either, cos if we did, many of those BLPs should have been categorized as from being Category:People from Moro Province or Category:People from the Department of Mindanao and Sulu. :)--RioHondo (talk) 06:31, 3 April 2019 (UTC)
- What are you talking about? People born between 1989 and 2018 in the ARMM number in the millions. People who satisfy the notability criteria reduces this, but there are still many people. This isn't reduced to people who were born in that time; you'd also include people who were living from 1989 to 2003. Now whether is this is a container or you'd actually categorize people in this category is another question, but that shouldn't be a factor on whether this should be renamed or not.
- "We don't do people by historical entities", but we can. It'll be interesting who were people who were living at the time Ambos Camarines was a thing. Howard the Duck (talk) 11:57, 3 April 2019 (UTC)
- Let's see...Do those young ISIL-linked combatants have WP articles? Of course, there are millions but we know regional BLPs are scarce around here, and especially from that troubled southern region. It will just be another unnecesarry layer in our already underpopulated people categories which we do by current provincial setup. Sure, we get one from Ambos Camarines, one for Sultanate of Maguindanao, a couple from Moro Province, and maybe nil for Lepanto-Bontoc and Kedatuan of Dapitan. These cats would just merged and/or deleted given the scarcity. I am also merely following what is already there, and your proposal will be just as bizarre as having a Category:People from Manila (province) and a Category:People from Bulacan (1578-1901) that includes people from Valenzuela at the time when Valenzuela was still not part of Metro Manila LOL. Again, Bangsamoro is basically still ARMM except that it added Cotabato City and a few other barangays like Metro Manila did with Valenzuela. And can you imagine having a Category:Populated places in Bulacan (1578-1901) that includes Valenzuela? That's messed up IMHO.--RioHondo (talk) 14:50, 3 April 2019 (UTC)
- See WP:SMALLCAT. Millions of people lived at the old ARMM, not just ISIL combatants. Even those rebels should be plentiful. The political dynasts are plentiful. Who knows we might even see sportspeople and celebrities. ISIL combatants are an infinitesimal percentage of the people who lived in the ARMM. We can have a category for Representatives from Lanao del Sur, categorized in both ARMM and BARMM. You could do the same for Ambos Camarines, Lepanto-Bontoc, Kedatuan of Dapitan, Maynila (province), which are all dissolved entities. We can even do a category of Kingdom of Maynila officeholders. Dunno about Bulacan as it's still existing. Several provinces annexed and lost tows in history, dunno how that compares to already dissolved entities such as the ARMM, as long categorization is concerned, which is what not I'm saying. Dunno how that bizarrely got into the conversation.
- Let's see...Do those young ISIL-linked combatants have WP articles? Of course, there are millions but we know regional BLPs are scarce around here, and especially from that troubled southern region. It will just be another unnecesarry layer in our already underpopulated people categories which we do by current provincial setup. Sure, we get one from Ambos Camarines, one for Sultanate of Maguindanao, a couple from Moro Province, and maybe nil for Lepanto-Bontoc and Kedatuan of Dapitan. These cats would just merged and/or deleted given the scarcity. I am also merely following what is already there, and your proposal will be just as bizarre as having a Category:People from Manila (province) and a Category:People from Bulacan (1578-1901) that includes people from Valenzuela at the time when Valenzuela was still not part of Metro Manila LOL. Again, Bangsamoro is basically still ARMM except that it added Cotabato City and a few other barangays like Metro Manila did with Valenzuela. And can you imagine having a Category:Populated places in Bulacan (1578-1901) that includes Valenzuela? That's messed up IMHO.--RioHondo (talk) 14:50, 3 April 2019 (UTC)
- What is now Myanmar was once named Burma, and the majority of WP categories having to do with Burma were redirected to those encompassing Myanmar. While "Burma" is still used colloquially in some cases, the current, official name of the country is Republic of the Union of Myanmar. It seems to me that "people from ARRM" can just as easily be sorted as "people from [any province within the former ARMM]", thus avoiding any need for a category like "people from Bangsomoro". Just saying. Her Pegship (speak) 01:39, 4 April 2019 (UTC)
- Actually, Bangsamoro being the successor region is the one that has to have all these subcats whereas the ARMM should be treated from a historical perspective from this point. If the plebiscite didn't involve a somewhat different government structure and a little enlargement, this could have easily just been renamed or moved to the current name. But we are keeping the ARMM as a distinct historical entity but all the rest that does not pertain to its former political structure and history should fall under the new region. See this: https://armm.gov.ph--RioHondo (talk) 11:41, 4 April 2019 (UTC)
- @Howard the Duck Yup, we can continue discussing this in CFD. But a person born between 1989 and 2018 who is from that region will be a hard find. Remember this only existed for less than 20 years, and so those people categorized as from being the ARMM are actually inacurrate, as i said you have to be born from August 1989 and Feb 26 2019 to be accurately categorized as such (which luckily we don't have, as the people from region category is just a container category with links to people by individual component province as we do most other regional people categories). All of the above permcats were container categories, no article really fell under any of them as we do articles per province here really. We don't do people by historical entities here either, cos if we did, many of those BLPs should have been categorized as from being Category:People from Moro Province or Category:People from the Department of Mindanao and Sulu. :)--RioHondo (talk) 06:31, 3 April 2019 (UTC)
- If ever this is sent to the usual CFD, I request the removal of the ARMM categories be reverted until there's consensus for renaming or deletion. Howard the Duck (talk) 00:57, 3 April 2019 (UTC)
On hold pending other discussion
- Category:FC Hirnyk-Sport Komsomolsk to Category:FC Hirnyk-Sport Horishni Plavni – C2D per Hirnyk-Sport Horishni Plavni, town was renamed in 2016. Tagged by anon in January, not listed until now. – Fayenatic London 14:58, 2 April 2019 (UTC)
- Category:FC Hirnyk-Sport Komsomolsk managers to Category:FC Hirnyk-Sport Horishni Plavni managers
- Category:FC Hirnyk-Sport Komsomolsk players to Category:FC Hirnyk-Sport Horishni Plavni players
- There is a pending question on the article talk page, why not simply FC Hirnyk-Sport and Category:FC Hirnyk-Sport? Waiting for the page mover, User:Dem1997 to reply. – Fayenatic London 15:02, 2 April 2019 (UTC)
- Category:Catholic Church sex abuse scandal in Australia to Category:Catholic Church sex abuse cases in Australia – C2C per Category:Catholic Church sex abuse cases by country Danski454 (talk) 18:40, 11 March 2019 (UTC)
- Category:Catholic Church sex abuse scandal in New Zealand to Category:Catholic Church sex abuse cases in New Zealand
- Category:Roman Catholic Church sex abuse cases in Canada to Category:Catholic Church sex abuse cases in Canada
- Oppose at least speedy. The main articles of the categories are Catholic Church sexual abuse cases in Australia, Catholic Church sexual abuse cases in New Zealand and Catholic sexual abuse cases in Canada. Armbrust The Homunculus 06:35, 12 March 2019 (UTC)
- I suggest placing this one on hold until this related discussion closes. -- Black Falcon (talk) 01:49, 18 March 2019 (UTC)
- Done. Armbrust The Homunculus 15:04, 20 March 2019 (UTC)
- @Armbrust, Black Falcon, and Danski454: that discussion has been closed, renaming Category:Christian sex abuse cases to Category:Child sexual abuse scandals in Christianity. Is another discussion needed for the Category:Catholic sex abuse cases hierarchy? – Fayenatic London 08:44, 28 March 2019 (UTC)
- Done. Armbrust The Homunculus 15:04, 20 March 2019 (UTC)
- Don't you think the speedy could proceed as normal now again? PPEMES (talk) 15:27, 31 March 2019 (UTC)
- Certainly not as nominated, since we have moved away from "sex abuse cases". Is it sufficiently clear what the new names should be? e.g. Category:Catholic Church child sexual abuse scandals in Australia? – Fayenatic London 11:31, 1 April 2019 (UTC)
- Don't you think the speedy could proceed as normal now again? PPEMES (talk) 15:27, 31 March 2019 (UTC)
Moved to full discussion
- None currently
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