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WikiProject Korea | (Rated NA-class) | ||||||||||||
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Wikimania 2020 |
Bangkok, Thailand – 05-08-2020 |
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Local Time ( ) |
Fan Meeting
![](https://web.archive.org/web/20211017071635im_/https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/ea/Purple_arrow_down.svg/20px-Purple_arrow_down.svg.png)
Hi dear editors,
I would like to add the Fan Meeting information to Kwak Dong-yeon's page. Is it ok to add? There are many Korean actors and singers that have these information on their pages.
For example
in Career section -Cha eunwoo -Lee joon gi -Bambam(singer) -Park jinyoung -Kim hyunjoong -Lee Jongsuk
in Fan Meeting section -Kim soohyun -Park bo gum -Jang ki yong
in both Career & Fan Meeting section -Song joong ki
in Public Relations section -Jung hae in
Drmies stated that fanmeetings fall under WP:NOTNEWS. I have read WP:NOTNEWS, but I don't completely agree that Fan Meeting falls under this topic. It's like an artist can't have concerts or tours written on their pages... Fan meeting is also that kind of events for Korean entertainers. The fans have to buy very expensive tickets in order to attend. Not just anyone or infamous artists can do this. If the artists are popular enough, then they can hold fan Meetings internationally and in large scales. It's also a part of their careers. If you wont allow me to add this information to his career section, then can I add it to the Fan Meeting section (in table format) or in Public Relations section instead then? (just like the pages above)
However, if its not allow to be added. I understand and wont add it to his page, but please delete these Fan Meetings information from the above artists pages too, not only just Kwak Dong-yeon. It should be the same standard for Korean entertainers.
Thank you so much. Waiting for the response Samekizofu (talk) 09:47, 18 August 2021 (UTC)
- In my opinion, I agree for the fan meeting information to be added to korean entertainers pages (if provide proper references) because it's actually big part of artists career. They can earn a lot money from this fan meeting internationally, just like tour concerts for singers. Aoowassana (talk) 10:12, 18 August 2021 (UTC)
- As someone who has been to fan meetings, I would argue that including such information is not useful. What encyclopedic value does a list of fan meetings provide? Anyone celebrity can hold a fan meeting, big or small. The last one I went to before COVID was for a group who can't crack 2,000 album sales, and they've had multiple fan meetings. A typical fan meeting can consist of the celebrity talking to the audience at large, talking to several small groups of attendees, games, performances, and so on. These events only occur for fan interaction and not much else, which makes it perfect WP:FANCRUFT material. ✗plicit 14:34, 18 August 2021 (UTC)
- Explicit, I'd say that it depends on RS. If reliable outlets cover those events, they are probably notable. For the group you mentioned, I doubt there'd be reliable sources anyway... in other words, I guess it's case by case type of an issue. Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 02:55, 21 August 2021 (UTC)
- @Piotrus: I'd be interested to see what information someone can gather that goes beyond routine coverage (see my response to Samekizofu below for an example). ✗plicit 10:38, 21 August 2021 (UTC)
- Explicit, I'd say that it depends on RS. If reliable outlets cover those events, they are probably notable. For the group you mentioned, I doubt there'd be reliable sources anyway... in other words, I guess it's case by case type of an issue. Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 02:55, 21 August 2021 (UTC)
- As someone who has been to fan meetings, I would argue that including such information is not useful. What encyclopedic value does a list of fan meetings provide? Anyone celebrity can hold a fan meeting, big or small. The last one I went to before COVID was for a group who can't crack 2,000 album sales, and they've had multiple fan meetings. A typical fan meeting can consist of the celebrity talking to the audience at large, talking to several small groups of attendees, games, performances, and so on. These events only occur for fan interaction and not much else, which makes it perfect WP:FANCRUFT material. ✗plicit 14:34, 18 August 2021 (UTC)
- I personally don't think fan meetings should be mentioned unless there is something particularly notable about a particular fan meeting and I definitely don’t see why they would need to be listed in a table. I don’t think the fact you have to buy "very expensive tickets" has any relevance to its Wikipedia inclusion, either. Explicit makes a good point with WP:FANCRUFT, too. Alex (talk) 16:20, 18 August 2021 (UTC)
- If that the case, the fan meeting information in the above artists' pages should be deleted as well right? I'm totally ok if you disagree, but this should apply to all entertainers. Samekizofu (talk) 03:12, 19 August 2021 (UTC)
- @Samekizofu: that's what this discussion is about, so we can come to a consensus. Alex (talk) 06:07, 19 August 2021 (UTC)
- @Alexanderlee: OK..I understand. BTW @Explicit Which was the idol group that u attend their fan meeting u mentioned? And Was that fan meeting held internationally(not in Korea)? I'm a fan of BTS, EXO, GOT7 and Ateez. From what I've known is that normally those idol groups won't hold fan meeting, but they will hold "fan signing" events instead, which is completely different from "fan meeting".
- @Samekizofu: that's what this discussion is about, so we can come to a consensus. Alex (talk) 06:07, 19 August 2021 (UTC)
- If that the case, the fan meeting information in the above artists' pages should be deleted as well right? I'm totally ok if you disagree, but this should apply to all entertainers. Samekizofu (talk) 03:12, 19 August 2021 (UTC)
- Fan signing the attendants will be held in small groups(limited attendants), because they want to sell their albums. The fans have to buy a lot of albums in order to win the right to attend the fan sign event(the top spenders). And rarely held internationally, unless that country is their target market.
- Fan Meeting mostly from Korean actors or actress, or individual solo activity..just like Bambam GOT7, and Cha Eunwoo from Astro(which is also an actor). The fans have to buy tickets to attend, and mostly hold in large scale and internationally.
- That's from my experience. I've never followed not popular idol groups before, so I really have no idea about what u said. Samekizofu (talk) 08:05, 19 August 2021 (UTC)
- I think Samekizofu points for this discussion is why there is no consistency from article to article as certain articles are "okay" (kind of) with having fan meeting section which are mostly styled exactly like table from concerts and tours section/list article (for example List of Blackpink live performances#Tour dates vs Kim Soo-hyun#Fan meeting). Imo, it is better to have clear consensus so future newly joined editors can have better understanding else they would just assume that it is okay to have the section because they see it on another article and after adding their edit, another editor removed. This is exactly the situation that Samekizofu faced. For me personal, I'm don't oppose to having the section, personally I haven't worked with fan meeting section before (referring to adding entry to the list) however I have with concerts and tours section/articles. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 08:22, 19 August 2021 (UTC)
- yes Paper9oll that's exactly what I thought. I just want a clear consensus. Samekizofu (talk) 09:07, 19 August 2021 (UTC)
- I still don't think anyone can have Fan Meeting in large scale and internationally though, but even if anyone can, in just a small scale like @Explicit said. Shouldn't it still be ok to add to Wikipedia anyway? Because anyone can hold a concert too. (whether the groups are popular or not popular, Big or small attendants). Editors can't add the concert/tours on the group's article too then? In my opinion, the concert/tour is just like Fan Meeting event. People have to buy the tickets for both concerts and fan meeting events in order to attend. (the fan Meeting tickets sometimes are even more expensive than the concerts too.) BTW, this does not count Fan signing events for Korean idol group because thats the opposite of Fan Meeting, as I mentioned above. If the concert can be added then, I still dont see why the fan meeting can't. Samekizofu (talk) 08:26, 20 August 2021 (UTC)
- @Samekizofu: The group was D-Crunch. Interestingly, that particular fan meeting was a dinner with the group and nothing else, aside from the concert directly after. The one I went to was in Seoul, but they also had a fan meeting in Malaysia two years ago. Fan signings are even more fancrufty than fan meetings, and even those occur overseas. I recall JBJ95 holding these events a few times in Japan for the release of their Korean albums. They take place outside of Korea a lot more than you'd think.
- Concerts and fan meetings are incredibly different from each others. Let's take The Monster Ball Tour, for example. There's background, development, synopsis, critical reception, commercial performance, and so on. Reliable sources cover these events in great detail. What information do we get from fan meetings? "X Group will hold a fan meeting at Y, tickets go on sale on Z" or "X Group sells out fan meeting tickets in Y amount of time". That's what I've seen over time. Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collection of information. I don't oppose mentioning fan meetings in prose if it's related to promotion. I've just remembered that I mention them in passing at D-Hours AM 7:03#Release and promotion, and I only listed those because they were held as promotional events for the album. I don't think they're worth mentioning at Kim Dong-han in prose or anywhere in list form. ✗plicit 10:38, 21 August 2021 (UTC)
- @Explicit: IC..I don't have that much knowledge about those not that popular idol groups. Anyway in my opinion, what I mean is that the concerts (for idol groups) are the same as the fan meetings (for an actors/actresses).. The singers have "concerts" to meet and showcase their performances with their fans who bought the tickets, meanwhile the actors/actress can also have the "fan meeting" events in order to publicize/showcase/connect with their fans who bought the tickets too (mostly they will have fan meetings soon after their drama or any work successfully finished), and the media did not just report a few things like u said.. they also wrote many details about the events too. In conclusion, I think that the idol groups should have only the concert/tours information, but not the Fan meeting and fansign events on their articles (except for individual solo artist like u mentioned above, and if the fan meetings are relevant/notable, and in big scale.. the fansign events are too irrelevant, can't be added for sure). Whereas the actor, and actress can have Fan Meeting information, because it's also considered as a promotional/public relation events for them, and mostly it's in big scale and held internationally too. Actually, I just want the conclusion about adding the Fan Meeting information/table to the actor/actress's article tho. I dont know much about Idol groups/singers. My English is not that good. Hope u'll understand what I'm trying to say. Samekizofu (talk) 10:20, 22 August 2021 (UTC)
- So what's the final conclusion? Can I add Fan Meeting or not? Samekizofu (talk) 06:37, 28 August 2021 (UTC)
- @Explicit: IC..I don't have that much knowledge about those not that popular idol groups. Anyway in my opinion, what I mean is that the concerts (for idol groups) are the same as the fan meetings (for an actors/actresses).. The singers have "concerts" to meet and showcase their performances with their fans who bought the tickets, meanwhile the actors/actress can also have the "fan meeting" events in order to publicize/showcase/connect with their fans who bought the tickets too (mostly they will have fan meetings soon after their drama or any work successfully finished), and the media did not just report a few things like u said.. they also wrote many details about the events too. In conclusion, I think that the idol groups should have only the concert/tours information, but not the Fan meeting and fansign events on their articles (except for individual solo artist like u mentioned above, and if the fan meetings are relevant/notable, and in big scale.. the fansign events are too irrelevant, can't be added for sure). Whereas the actor, and actress can have Fan Meeting information, because it's also considered as a promotional/public relation events for them, and mostly it's in big scale and held internationally too. Actually, I just want the conclusion about adding the Fan Meeting information/table to the actor/actress's article tho. I dont know much about Idol groups/singers. My English is not that good. Hope u'll understand what I'm trying to say. Samekizofu (talk) 10:20, 22 August 2021 (UTC)
- I still don't think anyone can have Fan Meeting in large scale and internationally though, but even if anyone can, in just a small scale like @Explicit said. Shouldn't it still be ok to add to Wikipedia anyway? Because anyone can hold a concert too. (whether the groups are popular or not popular, Big or small attendants). Editors can't add the concert/tours on the group's article too then? In my opinion, the concert/tour is just like Fan Meeting event. People have to buy the tickets for both concerts and fan meeting events in order to attend. (the fan Meeting tickets sometimes are even more expensive than the concerts too.) BTW, this does not count Fan signing events for Korean idol group because thats the opposite of Fan Meeting, as I mentioned above. If the concert can be added then, I still dont see why the fan meeting can't. Samekizofu (talk) 08:26, 20 August 2021 (UTC)
- yes Paper9oll that's exactly what I thought. I just want a clear consensus. Samekizofu (talk) 09:07, 19 August 2021 (UTC)
- I think Samekizofu points for this discussion is why there is no consistency from article to article as certain articles are "okay" (kind of) with having fan meeting section which are mostly styled exactly like table from concerts and tours section/list article (for example List of Blackpink live performances#Tour dates vs Kim Soo-hyun#Fan meeting). Imo, it is better to have clear consensus so future newly joined editors can have better understanding else they would just assume that it is okay to have the section because they see it on another article and after adding their edit, another editor removed. This is exactly the situation that Samekizofu faced. For me personal, I'm don't oppose to having the section, personally I haven't worked with fan meeting section before (referring to adding entry to the list) however I have with concerts and tours section/articles. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 08:22, 19 August 2021 (UTC)
- That's from my experience. I've never followed not popular idol groups before, so I really have no idea about what u said. Samekizofu (talk) 08:05, 19 August 2021 (UTC)
Revised Romanization mistake
There are two pages on the Romanization of Hangeul (why? But that's not the problem right now). In one of them, the romanization of dyphthongs is correct but in the other it is different than in the first, and plain wrong. I'm saying "wrong" based on the official rules to be found on the website of the National Institute of Korean Language. ㅘ is marked as oa (when it should be wa), ㅝ is marked as oae (when it should be wo) ㅚ is marked as oi (when it should be oe) and so on and so forth. I thought, before going in and changing it myself, to alert you here, because it's important stuff. Shantimar (talk) 05:07, 2 September 2021 (UTC)
- That's odd. I'm not seeing much of a point in having two separate pages which provide the same information, especially when one provides a portion of the other. Perhaps there is nuance between the articles that we're missing as non-native speakers—Revised Romanization of Hangeul was created by the native South Korean user Garam—but it should probably be redirected to Revised Romanization of Korean regardless, as a content fork wouldn't be justified even if there is a difference between the two. ✗plicit 07:04, 2 September 2021 (UTC)
- I agree. The second page is wrong and could simply be a redirect. --Christian140 (talk) 13:14, 3 September 2021 (UTC)
- I have gone ahead and redirected Revised Romanization of Hangeul to Revised Romanization of Korean. Garam seemingly quit editing all Wikimedia projects last June, so an answer from them would not be forthcoming. ✗plicit 07:01, 8 September 2021 (UTC)
- I agree. The second page is wrong and could simply be a redirect. --Christian140 (talk) 13:14, 3 September 2021 (UTC)
About now "draftify-d" article Draft:Lee Hyung-geun
Hi WikiProject Korea people.
Please see Ko:이형근, Ja:李亨根 and so on.
In terms of an addition to the English language Wikipedia, I guess there is a quite manifest notability assertion here: a four star general who later went on to be a diplomat.
I guess a first issue to address here may the standard romanization of 이형근.
Your thoughts about this?
Pete AU aka --Shirt58 (talk) 13:23, 12 September 2021 (UTC)
Hi there. Sorry I can't seem to understand what you are talking about since I'm not so experienced in the English language. But if you're asking about the romanization of 이형근, the Revised Romanization would be I Hyeong-geun and the McCune–Reischauer would be Yi Hyeongkŭn
BaaBaaTheSheep(talk • ctb) 05:40, 5 October 2021 (UTC)
Fictional Koreans
There is a dispute at this article, specifically about whether articles about fictional Koreans should be covered under this WikiProject. Anyone interested in saying their piece is encouraged to participate. - Whadup, it's ya girl, Dusa (talk) 21:20, 13 September 2021 (UTC)
Sourcing ratings
Is there a specific website where ratings for television shows/web series can be found? Or are they usually always mentioned in news articles on Naver? I saw on Kor Wiki that ratings were provided for the television broadcast of BTS In the Soop, but that article contains no sources. -- Carlobunnie (talk) 19:35, 3 October 2021 (UTC)
- Those ratings come from Nielsen, https://www.nielsenkorea.co.kr/tv_terrestrial_day.asp?menu=Tit_1&sub_menu=1_1&area=01, Gallup and the like. --Christian140 (talk) 14:01, 4 October 2021 (UTC)
- @Carlobunnie The ratings are likely taken from Naver Search [1] or Daum Search [2]. If the ratings are high enough, they will appear in Nielsen Korea website, https://www.nielsenkorea.co.kr/tv_terrestrial_day.asp?menu=Tit_1&sub_menu=2_1&area=01&begin_date=20211003 (this for paid television network such JTBC, MBN, Channel A, TV Chosun, etc), https://www.nielsenkorea.co.kr/tv_terrestrial_day.asp?menu=Tit_1&sub_menu=1_1&area=01&begin_date=20211003 (this is for free-to-air television network such as SBS, KBS, MBC, etc), and lastly https://www.nielsenkorea.co.kr/tv_terrestrial_day.asp?menu=Tit_1&sub_menu=3_1&area=01&begin_date=20211003 (this is cable network such as tvN, Mnet, etc). Since In the Soop is broadcasted on JTBC, the first one is the one you would need. To get the exact date from Nielsen Korea, change the date
20211003
(YYYYMMDD) to whichever date you want, there after you can ensure each episode has its own source for the ratings. Do note that, the date searching/changing function on Nielsen Korea website doesn't change the date on URL, you have to manually change the date. - However, In the Soop's ratings is quite low hence it wasn't listed on Nielsen Korea website, you would have to use either Naver Search or Daum Search as citation, I have linked them for your convenience above. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 14:17, 4 October 2021 (UTC)
- Thank you both very much! -- Carlobunnie (talk) 20:42, 4 October 2021 (UTC)
- @Carlobunnie The ratings are likely taken from Naver Search [1] or Daum Search [2]. If the ratings are high enough, they will appear in Nielsen Korea website, https://www.nielsenkorea.co.kr/tv_terrestrial_day.asp?menu=Tit_1&sub_menu=2_1&area=01&begin_date=20211003 (this for paid television network such JTBC, MBN, Channel A, TV Chosun, etc), https://www.nielsenkorea.co.kr/tv_terrestrial_day.asp?menu=Tit_1&sub_menu=1_1&area=01&begin_date=20211003 (this is for free-to-air television network such as SBS, KBS, MBC, etc), and lastly https://www.nielsenkorea.co.kr/tv_terrestrial_day.asp?menu=Tit_1&sub_menu=3_1&area=01&begin_date=20211003 (this is cable network such as tvN, Mnet, etc). Since In the Soop is broadcasted on JTBC, the first one is the one you would need. To get the exact date from Nielsen Korea, change the date
Paper9oll would you mind taking a look at the ratings table I added? I've never had to create one before so Idk whether I did it correctly or not. I used the summary graph from the Naver link you provided for the ratings, but also saw articles citing additional numbers/details from TMNS for the first episode, like this and this. Now idk if the table should be modified to include any of that, or if it should just be mentioned in a note at the bottom of the table. -- Carlobunnie (talk) 02:53, 6 October 2021 (UTC)
- @Carlobunnie The ratings table looks good, I made a slight adjustment to made it align with other K-shows articles. TNmS is another type of ratings available for use in South Korea TV series/shows, you can create another column if you want to include it. However, the ratings doesn't appear on Naver nor Daum results, you can only get the figures from news articles. Here is an example of the ratings table with TNmS column. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 03:03, 6 October 2021 (UTC)
- Thank you for the adjustment. I was asking whether I should include the TMnS ratings (found in the articles I linked above) for ep1 in the table or not, since none were reported for the other episodes. -- Carlobunnie (talk) 03:35, 6 October 2021 (UTC)
Literal trans
Should the lit. for "인더숲 BTS편" be written "In the forest BTS" or "BTS in the forest"? I put the latter in the first sentence, but I want to know for sure. -- Carlobunnie (talk) 07:04, 7 October 2021 (UTC)
Wow. That show has a terrible title on the first look. I hope the producers have a good explanation. I would use "In the Forest: BTS edition". --Christian140 (talk) 07:40, 7 October 2021 (UTC)
- Since no one else commented, I went with your suggestion. Thanks for the reply. -- Carlobunnie (talk) 23:18, 9 October 2021 (UTC)
One of your project's articles has been selected for improvement!
Hello, |
Pansori
In case someone would like to improve this article (that may contain auto-translated parts?) Particularly funny are the sentences with "intestine" (like: "Since clowns are folk intestines, it would be right to say that they ate various folk intestines based on the rhythm of these mugas and completed them"). Thanks, —PaleoNeonate – 00:22, 14 October 2021 (UTC)