Precious anniversary
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Four years! |
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--Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:48, 17 October 2021 (UTC)
Concern about edits by User:Yusiffuctd
- Yusiffuctd (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · edit filter log · block user · block log)
- Third Crusade (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
- Bajaur Campaign (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
- Eighth Crusade (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
I am sure you are tired of me posting these, but user:Yusiffuctd has, since 8 October, been edit warring(about every 2-3 days) the term(s) "Political Muslim Victory as Muslims remain in control of Jerusalem" into the infobox of the Third Crusade. Yusiffuctd has been reverted 9 times by 4 different editors.
On the Bajaur Campaign, Yusiffuctd has been reverted, since 4 October, 3 times by 2 different editors.
On the Eighth Crusade, Yusiffuctd has been revert, since 9 October, 5 times by 2 different editors.
I am unsure what the issue is concerning Yusiffuctd, but the slow edit warring on Third Crusade is becoming somewhat disruptive.
Thank you for your patience in this matter. --Kansas Bear (talk) 16:20, 22 October 2021 (UTC)
- I have left a note for Yusiffuctd. EdJohnston (talk) 16:28, 22 October 2021 (UTC)
- I am guessing Yusiffuctd's recent editing[1][2][3] is their answer? --Kansas Bear (talk) 03:55, 24 October 2021 (UTC)
- The editor is now blocked for continuing the war. EdJohnston (talk) 14:03, 24 October 2021 (UTC)
- I am guessing Yusiffuctd's recent editing[1][2][3] is their answer? --Kansas Bear (talk) 03:55, 24 October 2021 (UTC)
Draw broader attention to a move request
Hello Ed, may I ask for your advice? Is there any way to draw more third party attention to a Move Request I have initiated, and which appears to be far more controversial than I have imagined. A third-party input from the broader Wikipedia community will very much be needed here to make sure that the Move Request doesn't reflect strictly the usual local Balkan topic area consensus but a broader consensus. Any ideas where can I ask for such third-party attention? A particular noticeboard? And how to notify them? Thank you. --- ❖ SilentResident ❖ (talk ✉ | contribs ✎) 09:47, 23 October 2021 (UTC)
- You are speaking about Talk:Imia/Kardak#Requested move 17 October 2021. I am unsure if that issue is crying out for more publicity. (The talk page has been viewed 819 times in the past week). The tone of the move discussion is unfortunately reminiscent of the bad old days of WP:BALKANS. I hope that the parties will stay away from any possibility of canvassing. EdJohnston (talk) 15:30, 23 October 2021 (UTC)
- I agree. I had 2 options; either move the article myself, or, if I believe it is controversial, to initiate a move request. I chose the 2nd option for obvious reasons and seek WP:CONSENSUS. I was hopeful that the editors would follow the guidelines and support re-titling the only article in the Disputed Islands/Territories topic area with a double name into a single name, just like every other of the 200+ articles in the Disputed Territories already do. But like you said, it is just the bad old days of WP:BALKANS all over again and needlessly more controversial than I expected, and the reason I would REALLY appreciate some more independent third party opinions. A broader consensus is welcome and may help. --- ❖ SilentResident ❖ (talk ✉ | contribs ✎) 16:11, 23 October 2021 (UTC)
- You were wise to open an RM instead of trying to move the article yourself. If there were a genuine wide-scale issue about WP:SLASH affecting several articles then I could see trying to get MOS regulars involved. Or, if there was offsite forum activity causing new people to show up then we could alert the admins generally. But as it is, Imia/Kardak is a small issue visible only to a few, that won't make a huge amount of difference whichever way it comes out. Having a redirect from Imia to Imia/Kardak or vice versa seems to be the most that could be at stake. (If it were totally up to me I would pick Imia, even though the slash rule is only a guideline). After the move has been open for the usual time, you could request an admin closer rather than a regular move closer. EdJohnston (talk) 18:23, 23 October 2021 (UTC)
- OK noted. Thanks. --- ❖ SilentResident ❖ (talk ✉ | contribs ✎) 18:26, 23 October 2021 (UTC)
- (Just a note in case someone may be looking for these guidelines: I found them now, they are WP:RM#CM (at bottom) and WP:APPNOTE). --- ❖ SilentResident ❖ (talk ✉ | contribs ✎) 23:41, 23 October 2021 (UTC)
- EdJohnston, your attention is needed please. An editor user:Buidhe with whom we were were in opposite sides of bitter disputes on other Balkan articles (one of them isn't resolved yet!), came and closed the MR in a very biased way, by ignoring completely the move request, counted only the votes without evaluating the strength of the arguments in these votes, and ignored what the naming guidelines do say on the matter. I asked that editor to revert the move [4] and I would prefer that an admin closes it instead. --- ❖ SilentResident ❖ (talk ✉ | contribs ✎) 19:57, 24 October 2021 (UTC)
- Ed, the MR's closure was reverted. I can't help but am really upset with all this however. I would appreciate if you or any other uninvolved admin closes it instead. Someone who is willing to read the arguments first, not close by counting just the votes. I want to believe that the project's guidelines that it is "not about votes, but about arguments" are still meaning something and that an impartial Admin can enforce them. Thank you. --- ❖ SilentResident ❖ (talk ✉ | contribs ✎) 20:01, 24 October 2021 (UTC)
- EdJohnston, your attention is needed please. An editor user:Buidhe with whom we were were in opposite sides of bitter disputes on other Balkan articles (one of them isn't resolved yet!), came and closed the MR in a very biased way, by ignoring completely the move request, counted only the votes without evaluating the strength of the arguments in these votes, and ignored what the naming guidelines do say on the matter. I asked that editor to revert the move [4] and I would prefer that an admin closes it instead. --- ❖ SilentResident ❖ (talk ✉ | contribs ✎) 19:57, 24 October 2021 (UTC)
- (Just a note in case someone may be looking for these guidelines: I found them now, they are WP:RM#CM (at bottom) and WP:APPNOTE). --- ❖ SilentResident ❖ (talk ✉ | contribs ✎) 23:41, 23 October 2021 (UTC)
- OK noted. Thanks. --- ❖ SilentResident ❖ (talk ✉ | contribs ✎) 18:26, 23 October 2021 (UTC)
- You were wise to open an RM instead of trying to move the article yourself. If there were a genuine wide-scale issue about WP:SLASH affecting several articles then I could see trying to get MOS regulars involved. Or, if there was offsite forum activity causing new people to show up then we could alert the admins generally. But as it is, Imia/Kardak is a small issue visible only to a few, that won't make a huge amount of difference whichever way it comes out. Having a redirect from Imia to Imia/Kardak or vice versa seems to be the most that could be at stake. (If it were totally up to me I would pick Imia, even though the slash rule is only a guideline). After the move has been open for the usual time, you could request an admin closer rather than a regular move closer. EdJohnston (talk) 18:23, 23 October 2021 (UTC)
- I agree. I had 2 options; either move the article myself, or, if I believe it is controversial, to initiate a move request. I chose the 2nd option for obvious reasons and seek WP:CONSENSUS. I was hopeful that the editors would follow the guidelines and support re-titling the only article in the Disputed Islands/Territories topic area with a double name into a single name, just like every other of the 200+ articles in the Disputed Territories already do. But like you said, it is just the bad old days of WP:BALKANS all over again and needlessly more controversial than I expected, and the reason I would REALLY appreciate some more independent third party opinions. A broader consensus is welcome and may help. --- ❖ SilentResident ❖ (talk ✉ | contribs ✎) 16:11, 23 October 2021 (UTC)
- Last December Buidhe had a content dispute with Khirurg, and the latter reported Buidhe for edit warring and tried to get them blocked. I intervened there to support Buidhe's defense [5]. A month later, Buidhe closed an RfC where I was in dispute with Khirurg and SR, giving them right [6]. So Buidhe has a history of being neutral regardless of disputes with certain editors. Anyways, interested editors are free to make a move review request. Ktrimi991 (talk) 20:25, 24 October 2021 (UTC)
- Ktrimi, Buidhe wasn't involved in any disputes with us back then, while they were involved these days not just in one, but two, at Killing of Zak Kostopoulos and Pushbacks in Greece which both occured right before I had initiated the MR! Impartiality isn't solely about not being involved in the MR, impartiality is about the person I have been in dispute, to not come and close my own RM, probably in retaliation to our disagreements in those other disputes. A very dishonest and classic WP:BALKAN way of doing things in Wikipedia, and one of the reasons I am considering abandoning the Wiki Project. The fact that you are commenting here about Buidhe's past contributions while turning a blind eye to the fact that Buidhe nowadays is involved in disputes with me and other editors from the RM, shows that you are just trying to WP:LAWYERING. --- ❖ SilentResident ❖ (talk ✉ | contribs ✎) 20:33, 24 October 2021 (UTC)
Comment: The closer has been reverted for not following Wikipedia's rules about impartiality in spirit. An uninvolved third party Admin closure has been requested at: Wikipedia:Closure Requests. --- ❖ SilentResident ❖ (talk ✉ | contribs ✎) 21:09, 24 October 2021 (UTC)
RM Closure
Hey EdJohnston, your advises to me are always appreciated but I see that even though I have submitted RM closure requests (per your recommendations above), I am realizing that the RM has not closed and was relisted for a third week. I had the impression there is a consensus regarding the guidelines but, according to both reviewers, it seems there isn't. The RM is being open for more than 14 days and was relisted probably for 7 more days and I am not sure what else (and if) can be done there. I have worked tirelessly to put opposite arguments to test, but the new reviewer has suggested against my further participation to it. I could appreciate any feedback on the matter. Thanks and good day. --- ❖ SilentResident ❖ (talk ✉ | contribs ✎) 19:19, 31 October 2021 (UTC)
- I agree that when you respond to everyone else's comment that is a little over-the-top. ('Working tirelessly' to address every other argument can be seen as tiring by the other participants. When you advocate so strongly for one view, others might be wondering if you have nationalist motives). The guidelines are not decisive in any case; whether to follow them is up to editor consensus. (Guidelines are not policy). RM discussions can be closed after seven days if it seems that more discussion is unlikely to change the result. Just give it a little time. There were posts by some new people on October 30. EdJohnston (talk) 19:33, 31 October 2021 (UTC)
- Oh I see. Frankly I thought that the person who initiates the RM has the "duty" to put their own arguments to test, as well as test the arguments of the other participants and denote why a RM had to be initiated and on what policy-compliant grounds. It is a relief to know now that I am not "obliged" to do such a (stressful if I may say) thing! Wish I knew this sooner before the stress got to this point: [7]. Well, better late than never. Good day and thanks for the feedback! --- ❖ SilentResident ❖ (talk ✉ | contribs ✎) 19:47, 31 October 2021 (UTC)
0"cleopatra"0
- 0"cleopatra"0 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · edit filter log · block user · block log)
Ed, I was about to block the user as a sock of Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Xavier 500.30.10. Any objections?--Bbb23 (talk) 15:50, 23 October 2021 (UTC)
- Please go ahead. And it would be helpful if you could reopen the sock case so I can add some findings (if I can get them figured out). EdJohnston (talk) 15:58, 23 October 2021 (UTC)
- Actually I can do that myself once I'm ready. EdJohnston (talk) 16:09, 23 October 2021 (UTC)
- (ec) I'm a bit confused. Are you going to do it all?--Bbb23 (talk) 16:12, 23 October 2021 (UTC)
- I found enough so I can do it all. It seems this guy has been very busy. Any behavioral evidence (of prior socks) would be welcome. Thanks, EdJohnston (talk) 16:29, 23 October 2021 (UTC)
- I understand your first two sentences, but then it sounds like you do want me to do something. In case you've forgotten, I'm a very literal fellow. :-) --Bbb23 (talk) 16:43, 23 October 2021 (UTC)
- Since you're still here, this guy might have had a prior account, User:MohammedShanooj03, which was CU-blocked back in July but without a sock case. So it's unclear if that leads to anything worth following up. That account may have done some personal self-promotion but the new guy looks more like an industry. Especially interesting that on his user page he takes credit for some articles created by User:Xavier 500.30.10, such as Ganeshamangalam. EdJohnston (talk) 17:14, 23 October 2021 (UTC)
- (ec) I think it's obvious that everyone is the same person regardless of the "expansion" by the new socks, which in my view is not uncommon at all. To make it easier on you, I suggest you file your findings at Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Xavier 500.30.10 and ask a clerk to move it to MohammedShanooj03--Bbb23 (talk) 17:22, 23 October 2021 (UTC)
- I've now updated the case and done an SPI block of 0"cleopatra"0. Leaving out a mention of the prior account due to a possibly-unnecessary privacy concern. EdJohnston (talk) 18:08, 23 October 2021 (UTC)
- I'm having trouble understanding the privacy concern, but I can't see what you can.--Bbb23 (talk) 18:28, 23 October 2021 (UTC)
- The prior name is possibly the editor's real name, based on some off-wiki research. And for whatever reason, the prior account's sandbox has been deleted, which included some personal details. EdJohnston (talk) 18:31, 23 October 2021 (UTC)
- If he wants to disclose personal details about himself, that's his business. You do know that cleopatra recreated Draft:Mohammed Shanooj, originally created by UnknownEditor1234567890, who looks like the same person and judging by the block log comment broadens this still further?--Bbb23 (talk) 18:54, 23 October 2021 (UTC)
- The prior name is possibly the editor's real name, based on some off-wiki research. And for whatever reason, the prior account's sandbox has been deleted, which included some personal details. EdJohnston (talk) 18:31, 23 October 2021 (UTC)
- I'm having trouble understanding the privacy concern, but I can't see what you can.--Bbb23 (talk) 18:28, 23 October 2021 (UTC)
- I've now updated the case and done an SPI block of 0"cleopatra"0. Leaving out a mention of the prior account due to a possibly-unnecessary privacy concern. EdJohnston (talk) 18:08, 23 October 2021 (UTC)
- (ec) I think it's obvious that everyone is the same person regardless of the "expansion" by the new socks, which in my view is not uncommon at all. To make it easier on you, I suggest you file your findings at Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Xavier 500.30.10 and ask a clerk to move it to MohammedShanooj03--Bbb23 (talk) 17:22, 23 October 2021 (UTC)
- Since you're still here, this guy might have had a prior account, User:MohammedShanooj03, which was CU-blocked back in July but without a sock case. So it's unclear if that leads to anything worth following up. That account may have done some personal self-promotion but the new guy looks more like an industry. Especially interesting that on his user page he takes credit for some articles created by User:Xavier 500.30.10, such as Ganeshamangalam. EdJohnston (talk) 17:14, 23 October 2021 (UTC)
- I understand your first two sentences, but then it sounds like you do want me to do something. In case you've forgotten, I'm a very literal fellow. :-) --Bbb23 (talk) 16:43, 23 October 2021 (UTC)
- I found enough so I can do it all. It seems this guy has been very busy. Any behavioral evidence (of prior socks) would be welcome. Thanks, EdJohnston (talk) 16:29, 23 October 2021 (UTC)
- (ec) I'm a bit confused. Are you going to do it all?--Bbb23 (talk) 16:12, 23 October 2021 (UTC)
- Actually I can do that myself once I'm ready. EdJohnston (talk) 16:09, 23 October 2021 (UTC)
In fact User:UnknownEditor1234567890 is Confirmed to User:Xavier 500.30.10. And, now that you noticed the recent creation of Draft:Mohammed Shanooj I would support the renaming of the case to User:MohammedShanooj03. Is it too late to unclose the case and make that request? In User:MER-C's block notice for User:UnknownEditor1234567890, I also see mentions of User:AlamanKlm, User:Al aman kollam and User:Muhammed fairoos. They are all blocked, but are not stale and it might be worth tagging them. With some more work I might be able to confirm them to Xavier 500.30.10. Will be taking a break for a few hours. EdJohnston (talk) 19:27, 23 October 2021 (UTC)
- Yeah, see Special:Undelete/Al aman Kollam. MER-C 19:50, 23 October 2021 (UTC)
- I added a note to the case, just an observation, looking at previous contributors to some of the same articles. Liz Read! Talk! 20:25, 23 October 2021 (UTC)
- I took the liberty of reopening the case.
- If it helps, here are some results from Commons I found:
- UnknownEditor1234567890 was confirmed to MohammedShanooj03.
- Rekutsen22 (talk · · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log · CA · CheckUser (log) · investigate) was checkuserblocked and tagged as a suspected sock of MohammedShanooj03.
- Zwackgaming (talk · · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log · CA · CheckUser (log) · investigate) was also checkuserblocked and tagged as a suspected sock of MohammedShanooj03.
- Best, —Mdaniels5757 (talk • contribs) 21:17, 23 October 2021 (UTC)
- Of all the accounts mentioned, Al aman kollam is the oldest (March 18, 2018). They are also not stale. AlamanKlm and Muhammed fairoos are also not stale. Zwackgaming is globally locked; although registered at en.wiki in September, they have made no edits. Although probably not something I should do, I'm going to put the case on hold until this is sorted out; I think that's better than open.--Bbb23 (talk) 22:07, 23 October 2021 (UTC)
-
- User:Bbb23, thanks for your help sorting out the case! EdJohnston (talk) 02:49, 26 October 2021 (UTC)
Nazran225
- Nazran225 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · edit filter log · block user · block log)
- Previous block of Nazran225 regarding Malaysian language per WP:AN3
Following coming off your block here, Nazran225 has gone back to exactly the same edits they were edit warring over before [8][9], including edits which remove information and introduce inaccuracies and using misleading edit summaries. There's no 'new edit war' so to speak, so I don't know if it fits on AN/EW, but it's a disruptive continuation of the past one. CMD (talk) 12:25, 24 October 2021 (UTC)
- Left a further warning. It appears he does not get the message. I assume there is a discrepancy between the 'political' definition of the Malaysian language and what the scholars employ. EdJohnston (talk) 22:22, 25 October 2021 (UTC)
- User:Nazran225 has made no further edits since my warning on October 24. Let me know if they continue to revert about the language. EdJohnston (talk) 14:21, 29 October 2021 (UTC)
IP edit-warring at Luiseño
Hi Ed, hope you're doing well. We're having trouble with an IP edit-warring to add somewhat incendiary content without citing the actual sources for the information at Luiseño. Carlstak (talk) 11:44, 27 October 2021 (UTC)
- Luiseño is now semiprotected. Thanks for your note. EdJohnston (talk) 15:22, 27 October 2021 (UTC)
Edit warring report redux
- Igec133 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · edit filter log · block user · block log)
- Next Slovak parliamentary election (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Hi Ed. You closed this discussion with a warning that Igec was not to revert at Next Slovak parliamentary election again. Unfortuantely they have done so today, restoring the infobox that they were edit warring to reinstate (this repeats this edit) and deleting a table of all the parties with seats. Cheers, Number 57 13:21, 28 October 2021 (UTC)
- The user was given a chance to respond to your observation but did not, so I've blocked them 48 hours for continuing the October 8 edit war on Next Slovak parliamentary election. EdJohnston (talk) 03:59, 30 October 2021 (UTC)
Request for permission
I've applied for the New page reviewer permission here. Could you please grand me the right? Thank you. --Agnihothri Sharath (talk) 06:28, 29 October 2021 (UTC)
- I've blocked the user as a suspected sock of Phoenix man.--Bbb23 (talk) 13:41, 29 October 2021 (UTC)
Creativerobot12345
- Creativerobot12345 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · edit filter log · block user · block log)
Further to your warning here (which they've blanked, so obviously seen), they've decided to turn up a year later and carry on the same way. FDW777 (talk) 10:02, 30 October 2021 (UTC)
- User now blocked 48 hours for edit warring and re-alerted about WP:TROUBLES. Thanks for your note. EdJohnston (talk) 15:40, 30 October 2021 (UTC)
List of characters in The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess
This redirect was protected in 2009 by you if I'm reading the logs correctly. I think unprotection can be removed, since the main target is also semi'd and I doubt most vandals would target it. Will you consider unprotection? Thanks in advance, Sennecaster (Chat) 03:42, 1 November 2021 (UTC)
- Done. EdJohnston (talk) 04:14, 1 November 2021 (UTC)
ANI report - The Crown
Could I just say, I thought that was pretty shabby moderating you did back there? The warning for warring, fair enough, no problem. But you specifically asked the other editor to undo the 4thRR; she called your bluff and carried on editing other pages. You know what the correct response under policy is! To pretend my first edit was a revert, when it introduced brand new wording into the article and wasn’t reverting anything, just to duck out of having to follow through on your earlier request was poor IMHO. MapReader (talk) 21:42, 1 November 2021 (UTC)
- Another option I considered was to block both parties (one for 3RR, and the other for edit warring). For you to go right up to the limit of 3RR and then report the other person, when it's a two person edit war, seems like not quite in good faith. It does take two people to edit war and either one has the power to end it. EdJohnston (talk) 22:00, 1 November 2021 (UTC)
- Then you should have said that from the outset. The implications of breaching 3RR are supposed to be clear. It isn’t reasonable that an admin should falsely accuse someone of reverting simply because he didn’t feel able to respond to another editor - who has a very long track-record of warring - when his bluff has been called. MapReader (talk) 14:27, 2 November 2021 (UTC)
My proposal
What do you think of WT:EW#3RR blocks for first offense? Regardless of the merits, should I go about it differently, meaning should I start an RFC, make the same proposal at WP:VPP, advertise it at WP:AN? As I said at the Talk page, I've never done this before. Thanks for your thoughts.--Bbb23 (talk) 13:08, 2 November 2021 (UTC)
- WP:VPP is logical as a place to get review, but I wonder if it is necessary to change the policy wording at all. There is a risk that a discussion in a large forum might produce more change than you expected. Do you recall any specific complaints about blocks for more than 24 hours? In practice I often try to engage in discussions with editors who are newly brought up at AN3 and may not understand the rules. In some cases they can be persuaded to back away from the dispute. A warning is sometimes enough. When a case looks more like pure disruption than good-faith disagreement I might skip the discussion and issue a block directly. EdJohnston (talk) 13:56, 2 November 2021 (UTC)
- How quickly we forget: :-)
Also, why was I blocked for 48 hours then and not 24 as WP:3RR states is typically given for this?
(see here). There have been others before this most recent one. I think they were my blocks, which, btw, are often more than 24 hours, but I'd have to dredge them up. I do agree, though, that a discussion might achieve a "worse" result. In general, I don't like having admin discretion limited as to when to block, how long to block, etc. It's similar to those admins who feel that partial blocks for edit-warring are the only way to go. Nonetheless, I'll probably let it go as I don't think I have the stomach for the extended discussion that is likely to ensue.--Bbb23 (talk) 15:24, 2 November 2021 (UTC)- Good catch! I could have paid more attention to that complaint. But I was frustrated, trying not to tell that editor that, before revising the definition of 'Mercantilism' unilaterally they should get a consensus of the world's historians. Speaking of partial blocks -- some people think they are a great idea but I'm not one of them. When I review other admins' blocks at AN3 they usually appear sensible to me. Though sometimes I think a block should have been longer in the light of the background. EdJohnston (talk) 16:44, 2 November 2021 (UTC)
- How quickly we forget: :-)
Early Christmas greeting
You are one of four editors who greatly encouraged me in my early months here and provided heart-warming support both before and during my RfA, which I looked at today for the first time in several years. I don't know if you realize how important that was and is to me. I am very glad, both on my own account and for the good of the encyclopedia as a whole, that you are still around. – Athaenara ✉ 20:58, 2 November 2021 (UTC)
IP block exemption
Hi EdJohnston, I've been editing Wikipedia through a VPN server, that I host on one of my VPS servers, due to privacy concerns. Recently I switched my VPS provider to another one and found that their ASN's IP prefix range has been blocked by another administrator (ST47), which prevented me from editing the Wiki through my registered account. Since you're one of the checkusers, I'm seeking an IP block exemption for this account. I could fill you in with the specifics such as IP ranges and such if required through email. Thanks, WikiLinuz (talk) 00:18, 3 November 2021 (UTC)
- Hello WikiLinuz. Since you are encountering one of User:ST47's rangeblocks it would save time if you could ask him directly. I would want to consult him in any case. Thanks, EdJohnston (talk) 02:03, 3 November 2021 (UTC)