Policy | Technical | Proposals | Idea lab | WMF | Miscellaneous |
- Table of contents
- First discussion
- End of page
- New post
If you want to report a JavaScript error, please follow this guideline. Questions about MediaWiki in general should be posted at the MediaWiki support desk. Discussions are automatically archived after remaining inactive for five days.
Frequently asked questions (FAQ) (see also: Wikipedia:FAQ/Technical) | |||||||||||||
---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
Click "[show]" next to each point to see more details.
|
How to get/copy raw html content?
Hi, I want to copy a specific part of a RAW Html content, but I don't know how to do it. For example, I want to get <pre>...</pre> content in this link and then use it in a Mediawiki namespace page. Thanks! ⇒ AramTalk 00:07, 29 April 2022 (UTC)
- @Aram don't think that is very feasible (maybe with some Lua) - what is the end result you are trying to accomplish, perhaps there is another way to go about it. — xaosflux Talk 11:50, 29 April 2022 (UTC)
- Special:ExpandTemplates may be helpful to strip template content. Otherwise look at the page source, on Firefox it is more tools > view source. --Jules (Mrjulesd) 13:05, 29 April 2022 (UTC)
- @Xaosflux and @Mrjulesd I want to add a drop-down list to Special:Upload (on ckbwiki) to add non-free templates (i. e. Template:Non-free use rationale album cover) just like Licensing drop-down list. And I wrote some codes (see below), but I don't know how to get those template codes.
var albumCoverValue = "Album Cover template"; var templateTypeLabel = '<td class="mw-label"><label for="templateType">Template type:</label></td>'; var selectTag = '<select name="templateType" id="templateTypeSelector" onchange="changeOption(this)">' + '<option value="">Choose</option>' + '<option value="' + albumCoverValue + '">Album Cover</option>' + '<option value="poster-value">Poster</option>' + '</select>'; var selectTagWrapper = '<td class="mw-input">' + selectTag + '</td>'; $('.mw-htmlform-field-HTMLTextAreaField').after('<tr class="mw-htmlform-field-Non-free-use-rationale-templates">' + templateTypeLabel + selectTagWrapper + '</tr>'); function changeOption(selected) { var x = selected.options[selected.selectedIndex].value; document.getElementById("wpUploadDescription").value = x; }
- Try above in console. We should do something to get template codes for albumCoverValue variable. ⇒ AramTalk 18:28, 29 April 2022 (UTC)
- @Aram: Try using a JSON page? NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh 19:09, 29 April 2022 (UTC)
- @NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh I've never worked with JSON. Do you have any idea? ⇒ AramTalk 19:46, 29 April 2022 (UTC)
- @Aram: You apparently know JS, so I think I can safely assume that you also know what JSON is. Create a JSON page (by changing content model or using a title that ends with
.json
) with all template codes, then use some JS code to query that page's content. NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh 19:53, 29 April 2022 (UTC)
- @Aram: You apparently know JS, so I think I can safely assume that you also know what JSON is. Create a JSON page (by changing content model or using a title that ends with
- @NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh I've never worked with JSON. Do you have any idea? ⇒ AramTalk 19:46, 29 April 2022 (UTC)
- I suggest you just add as a section within your existing form; they can be seen here: MediaWiki:Licenses; attempting to insert additional input boxes there will likely become problematic with different skins and with different releases. I sent you a note on ckbwiki where I might be able to look further. — xaosflux Talk 19:54, 29 April 2022 (UTC)
- @NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh I have basic information about it, but I haven't worked on it. Of course, I have created Wikipedia JSON pages, but those were just a copy-paste from other projects (without my skills). So far, I have no idea how to get information from it, but now you've given me some ideas about how it works, and I thank you for that. I need to read some information about it so I can work with it. Thank you!
- @Xaosflux I'm not technically that good. But I don't know how the MediaWiki:Licenses page can add those templates contents to the box. If we do so, it may be confused because it merges with the license section. Anyway, I'll wait for your notes. ⇒ AramTalk 20:32, 29 April 2022 (UTC)
- @Aram: Try using a JSON page? NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh 19:09, 29 April 2022 (UTC)
- Special:ExpandTemplates may be helpful to strip template content. Otherwise look at the page source, on Firefox it is more tools > view source. --Jules (Mrjulesd) 13:05, 29 April 2022 (UTC)
@Aram: When you edit MediaWiki:Licenses the bulleted items work like this:
- *$TemplatePageName|$Label
- So for example on w:ckb:MediaWiki:Licenses there is a line:
*cc-by-3.0|Creative Commons Attribution 3.0
- This uses the template at w:ckb:داڕێژە:Cc-by-3.0
- So create any templates you want, apply appropriate protection to them, then edit that Licenses page to add them. Is that what you are looking for? — xaosflux Talk 20:50, 29 April 2022 (UTC)
- @Xaosflux No, I'm not talking about the licensees, but about the usage of Template:Non-free use rationale. On ckbwiki, only the ckb:Template:ھۆکاری بەکارھێنانی نائازاد provided (see ckb:میدیاویکی:Onlyifuploading.js#L-20). There are more templates (see Category:Non-free use rationale templates). I mean how to add those templates usage codes to the box instead of the ckb:Template:ھۆکاری بەکارھێنانی نائازاد? Am I clear? ⇒ AramTalk 21:21, 29 April 2022 (UTC)
- Think I'm missing your goal a little bit. Your Special:Upload already includes lots of non-free templated options, you can remove ones that you don't want be editing the Licenses page as well. — xaosflux Talk 21:43, 29 April 2022 (UTC)
- Hello again @Xaosflux and @NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh, Sorry for reopening this section. I was about to read those documentations User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh had provided here and they were very useful for this case. I tried to get some information through JSON, I updated the code above according to those documentations and produced the below code; I'm not that good at coding, but anyway, I made something.
- Think I'm missing your goal a little bit. Your Special:Upload already includes lots of non-free templated options, you can remove ones that you don't want be editing the Licenses page as well. — xaosflux Talk 21:43, 29 April 2022 (UTC)
- @Xaosflux No, I'm not talking about the licensees, but about the usage of Template:Non-free use rationale. On ckbwiki, only the ckb:Template:ھۆکاری بەکارھێنانی نائازاد provided (see ckb:میدیاویکی:Onlyifuploading.js#L-20). There are more templates (see Category:Non-free use rationale templates). I mean how to add those templates usage codes to the box instead of the ckb:Template:ھۆکاری بەکارھێنانی نائازاد? Am I clear? ⇒ AramTalk 21:21, 29 April 2022 (UTC)
- So create any templates you want, apply appropriate protection to them, then edit that Licenses page to add them. Is that what you are looking for? — xaosflux Talk 20:50, 29 April 2022 (UTC)
Content
|
---|
// Choose a non-free template
var url = "https://test.wikipedia.org/w/api.php?" +
new URLSearchParams({
"action": "query",
"format": "json",
"prop": "revisions",
"revids": "363256|511722",
"formatversion": "2",
"rvprop": "content|ids"
});
//try {
async function getTemplates() {
var req = await fetch(url);
var json = await req.json();
var query = json.query;
var Non_free_use_rationale = query.pages[0].revisions[0].content.valueOf();
var Non_free_use_rationale_poster = query.pages[1].revisions[0].content.valueOf();
//var comingSoon = query.pages[0].revisions[0].content.valueOf();
var
optionText = "Choose", // Disabled
optionText1 = "Non free use rationale",
optionVal1 = Non_free_use_rationale,
optionText2 = "Non free use rationale poster",
optionVal2 = Non_free_use_rationale_poster;
//optionText3 = "More coming soon...",
//optionVal3 = comingSoon;
var optionTags = $('#templateTypeSelector')
.append($('<option>').text(optionText).attr('disabled', 'disabled'))
.append($('<option>').val(optionVal1).text(optionText1))
.append($('<option>').val(optionVal2).text(optionText2));
//.append($('<option></option>').val(optionVal3).text(optionText3));
var templateTypeLabel = '<td class="mw-label"><label for="templateType">Template type:</label></td>';
var selectTag = '<select name="templateType" id="templateTypeSelector" onchange="changeOption(this)">' + optionTags + '</select>';
var selectTagWrapper = '<td class="mw-input">' + selectTag + '</td>';
$('.mw-htmlform-field-HTMLTextAreaField').after('<tr class="mw-htmlform-field-Non-free-use-rationale-templates">' +
templateTypeLabel + selectTagWrapper + '</tr>');
}
function changeOption(selected) {
var x = selected.options[selected.selectedIndex].value;
document.getElementById("wpUploadDescription").value = x;
}
getTemplates();
//}
/*catch (e) {
console.error(e);
}*/
|
- Please notice that I changed the API source and it's "revids" to allow you try the the code (here: Special:Upload on testwiki) in your browser console and see a drop-down list created just above the "Licensing" drop-down list, but the problem here is an empty list, which produces [Object object], but if try the same code again just after the first time, you now can see the drop-down list we wanted. Can you tell me why it's not completely created at the first time? And if you have any other note about the code, I'm glad to hear them. Thanks! ⇒ AramTalk 13:40, 3 May 2022 (UTC)
@Aram: I'm not sure why your code doesn't work, but here's how I write it:
$(function() {
(new mw.Api()).get({
action: 'query',
prop: 'revisions',
revids: [363256, 511722],
rvprop: ['content', 'ids'],
format: 'json',
formatversion: 2
}).done(function(response) {
var options = [];
var text = ['Choose', 'Non free use rationale', 'Non free use rationale poster']; // etc.
options.push({
text: text[0]
});
for (let i = 0; i < response.query.pages.length; i++) {
options.push({
text: text[i + 1],
value: response.query.pages[i].revisions[0].content
});
}
$('.mw-htmlform-field-HTMLTextAreaField').after(
$('<tr>').addClass('mw-htmlform-field-Non-free-use-rationale-templates').append(
$('<td>').addClass('mw-label').html($('<label>').attr('for', 'templateType').text('Template type'))
).append(
$('<td>').addClass('mw-input').html(function() {
var r = $('<select>').attr('name', 'templateType').attr('id', 'templateTypeSelector');
for (let i of options) {
console.log(i);
if (i === options[0]) {
r.append($('<option>').text(i.text));
} else {
r.append($('<option>').val(i.value).text(i.text));
}
}
return r;
})
)
);
$('#templateTypeSelector').on('change', function() {
$('#wpUploadDescription').val($(this).val());
});
});
});
NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh 14:29, 3 May 2022 (UTC)
- Great! @NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh: I really want to thank you! Thank you for rewriting, cleaning the code up and removing any potentially error! It's working properly now! ⇒ AramTalk 17:44, 3 May 2022 (UTC)
- @Aram: Hi, you may want to make it a gadget and add a condition instead of inserting directly to MediaWiki:Common.js which will be load for every user on every page. NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh 15:41, 4 May 2022 (UTC)
- NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh Done, but after creating the gadget (see ckb:میدیاویکی:Gadget-UploadTemplates.js), it doesn't worked and produced this error: JavaScript parse error (scripts need to be valid ECMAScript 5): Parse error: Unexpected token; token ; expected in file 'MediaWiki:Gadget-UploadTemplates.js' on line 33. I think this is related to phab:T75714. Do you have any idea? ⇒ AramTalk 14:36, 5 May 2022 (UTC)
- Change let into var. ES6 is no supported for directly loaded JS, only inside lazy loaded JS under certain conditions. —TheDJ (talk • contribs) 14:42, 5 May 2022 (UTC)
- This is highly recommended. You will also need to change line 46 to
var j of options
, as well as all of its usage in the loop (i to j) to avoid potential overlapping. NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh 14:48, 5 May 2022 (UTC)
- This is highly recommended. You will also need to change line 46 to
- @Aram: As mentioned in the task, you can move the real code to somewhere else while keeping a
mw.loader.load
at the gadget page. NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh 14:43, 5 May 2022 (UTC)- @TheDJ and @NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh, Thank you both! It works now. But in the line 46, I just changed the
let
tovar
(becausevar j of options
is not working). As a result, I just loaded the gadget (ckb:میدیاویکی:Gadget-UploadTemplates.js) and changedlet
tovar
. That is all. Special thanks to you all! ⇒ AramTalk 15:40, 5 May 2022 (UTC)
- @TheDJ and @NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh, Thank you both! It works now. But in the line 46, I just changed the
- Change let into var. ES6 is no supported for directly loaded JS, only inside lazy loaded JS under certain conditions. —TheDJ (talk • contribs) 14:42, 5 May 2022 (UTC)
- NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh Done, but after creating the gadget (see ckb:میدیاویکی:Gadget-UploadTemplates.js), it doesn't worked and produced this error: JavaScript parse error (scripts need to be valid ECMAScript 5): Parse error: Unexpected token; token ; expected in file 'MediaWiki:Gadget-UploadTemplates.js' on line 33. I think this is related to phab:T75714. Do you have any idea? ⇒ AramTalk 14:36, 5 May 2022 (UTC)
- @Aram: Hi, you may want to make it a gadget and add a condition instead of inserting directly to MediaWiki:Common.js which will be load for every user on every page. NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh 15:41, 4 May 2022 (UTC)
New vector misses hyperlinks for "table of contents"
Hi, in the new vector (2022), the "table of contents" exists in the left side bar, as the last item of it. The problem is that all of headings and subheadings listed in this table misses a hyperlink that redirect the page to the related heading/subheading. I mean, after the event of "clicking on the text" we should scroll/redirect to a heading (via a URL, that its "heading text" is preceded by a "#" sign).
For example, when we open the article Variety_(universal_algebra) in the new vector (2022), there exists a table of content in the left side bar that if we click, for example, on the "Definition" item of that list, no action happens for now, but the correct scenario is that, after clicking, we should scroll the page to the section "https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variety_(universal_algebra)#Definition". Please add required hyperlinks to the table of contents items in the new vector. Thanks, Hooman Mallahzadeh (talk) 10:10, 1 May 2022 (UTC)
- This is a bug in the latest version of Chrome —TheDJ (talk • contribs) 11:17, 1 May 2022 (UTC)
- @TheDJ: I am using Microsoft Edge browser, and this problem exists there. Hooman Mallahzadeh (talk) 11:29, 1 May 2022 (UTC)
- @TheDJ But Opera browser has no such a bug. Hooman Mallahzadeh (talk) 11:32, 1 May 2022 (UTC)
- @TheDJ A browser layer, like Chrome or Edge, is under the layer of a web pages of a website, like articles of Wikipedia. So this bug is on behalf of Wikipedia not from these browsers. We should change and modify Wikipedia such that it would be compatible with all types and versions of browsers like Edge.
- Note that we should write Wikipedia webpages in a version of HTML language that is the most standard and basic tags of it, so that a it should not be dependent on a specific version of HTML. The uncompatibility that we face here, exactly comes from the neglection of this principle. Hooman Mallahzadeh (talk) 11:50, 1 May 2022 (UTC)
- Yes, Chromium, which is the rendering engine for Chrome, is also used for the same purpose in Edge. It would naturlaly occur in both. Izno (talk) 17:06, 1 May 2022 (UTC)
- Although (as I note below) a device may have different Chromium versions installed with the two browsers at any given time due to different update cycles, which is why I saw different behavior between them. David Brooks (talk) 00:23, 3 May 2022 (UTC)
- @TheDJ But Opera browser has no such a bug. Hooman Mallahzadeh (talk) 11:32, 1 May 2022 (UTC)
- @TheDJ: I am using Microsoft Edge browser, and this problem exists there. Hooman Mallahzadeh (talk) 11:29, 1 May 2022 (UTC)
Vector-2022 sidebar not clickable in Edge
Subject line says it. Using Edge (version 101.0.1210.32), I can't click the TOC sidebar; also the "page-down" scrolling behavior switching between the sidebar and the main text is hard to describe or predict. The TOC does work as expected in Chrome, which is odd because the two browsers share an engine. Sorry, but I don't know of a better place to record skin problems. David Brooks (talk) 13:30, 2 May 2022 (UTC)
- DavidBrooks, phab:T307360 — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 14:05, 2 May 2022 (UTC)
- Now phab:T307271. — xaosflux Talk 14:09, 2 May 2022 (UTC)
- Which is now fixed; thanks to the developers. I've been retired from the business too long, and I apologize for not also reporting my Chrome version, which was 100.0.4896.127. The Chromium (shared by Chrome and Edge) regression was introduced between those builds. David Brooks (talk) 00:20, 3 May 2022 (UTC)
- @Xaosflux@DavidBrooks@Alexis Jazz Today, the same problem raised again in Edge. Hooman Mallahzadeh (talk) 09:07, 5 May 2022 (UTC)
- Thanks for the note, I see phab:T307271 is reopen. — xaosflux Talk 09:45, 5 May 2022 (UTC)
- @Hooman Mallahzadeh, Xaosflux, and Alexis Jazz: I'm not clear whether the WP HTML fix also works in the older browser releases (100.x) as well as 101.x, where the Chromium regression happened. Did the fix for 101 break 100? In any case, Hooman, it's probably worth while to check your Edge version. Use ..., Settings, About Microsoft Edge. David Brooks (talk) 16:21, 5 May 2022 (UTC)
- @DavidBrooks This problem raised today temporarily, for about 4 or 5 hours. But now in my version of Edge browser (Version 101.0.1210.32 (Official build) (64-bit)), ToC links are clickable, too. Thanks for your reply. Hooman Mallahzadeh (talk) 16:40, 5 May 2022 (UTC)
- @Hooman Mallahzadeh: Happy to help. I believe Edge does quietly update itself when it's in the mood (it can take MS a few days to roll out updates of anything Windows-related). I'm on 101.0.1210.32. David Brooks (talk) 16:47, 5 May 2022 (UTC)
- @DavidBrooks This problem raised today temporarily, for about 4 or 5 hours. But now in my version of Edge browser (Version 101.0.1210.32 (Official build) (64-bit)), ToC links are clickable, too. Thanks for your reply. Hooman Mallahzadeh (talk) 16:40, 5 May 2022 (UTC)
- @Hooman Mallahzadeh, Xaosflux, and Alexis Jazz: I'm not clear whether the WP HTML fix also works in the older browser releases (100.x) as well as 101.x, where the Chromium regression happened. Did the fix for 101 break 100? In any case, Hooman, it's probably worth while to check your Edge version. Use ..., Settings, About Microsoft Edge. David Brooks (talk) 16:21, 5 May 2022 (UTC)
- Thanks for the note, I see phab:T307271 is reopen. — xaosflux Talk 09:45, 5 May 2022 (UTC)
- @Xaosflux@DavidBrooks@Alexis Jazz Today, the same problem raised again in Edge. Hooman Mallahzadeh (talk) 09:07, 5 May 2022 (UTC)
- Which is now fixed; thanks to the developers. I've been retired from the business too long, and I apologize for not also reporting my Chrome version, which was 100.0.4896.127. The Chromium (shared by Chrome and Edge) regression was introduced between those builds. David Brooks (talk) 00:20, 3 May 2022 (UTC)
- Now phab:T307271. — xaosflux Talk 14:09, 2 May 2022 (UTC)
Map legend in different languages at thumb and full size
For some reason at thumbnail size the legend of File:2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine.svg at bottom left appears in English, but the full size shows legend in Russian. Is it fixable? Also, the names of smaller villages and towns are illegible even at full size, but this is for Graphics Lab, it seems. Brandmeistertalk 15:53, 1 May 2022 (UTC)
- @Brandmeister: You are using Russian as interface language, not? NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh 16:09, 1 May 2022 (UTC)
- No, it seems, the Render this image parameter below the image is set to English and in my Preferences, Internationalisation is set to en - English. Brandmeistertalk 16:16, 1 May 2022 (UTC)
- After a while playing with it myself, I guess this is the intended behaviour, and that there are no bugs to be fixed. You can view any version by appending
?lang=langcode
to the URL. NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh 16:32, 1 May 2022 (UTC) - @Brandmeister: The original SVG file has text versions in multiple languages and your browser apparently chooses Russian. Mine chooses English. A thumb version is not an SVG file but a PNG rendered by MediaWiki which chooses English at the English Wikipedia, Russian at the Russian Wikipedia and French at the French Wikipedia (I didn't test the remaining languages in the SVG file). PNG is a purely graphical image format which doesn't support text in multiple languages. It doesnt support text at all but just displays an image which may contain symbols interpreted as text in some language. PrimeHunter (talk) 23:27, 3 May 2022 (UTC)
- How odd, ok. Brandmeistertalk 18:30, 4 May 2022 (UTC)
- @Brandmeister: It's determined by the browser and not MediaWiki when you view the original file. Your browser may have a way to set a list of preferred languages. My Firefox does. If you prefer English then you can examine browser settings or ask for help at Wikipedia:Reference desk/Computing. Remember to name your browser. The setting can also affect multilingual websites. PrimeHunter (talk) 19:32, 5 May 2022 (UTC)
- I use Firefox in Russian and now understand it, it seems. But on the other hand this is counter-intuitive and at first looks like odd behavior. Brandmeistertalk 19:40, 5 May 2022 (UTC)
- @Brandmeister: It's determined by the browser and not MediaWiki when you view the original file. Your browser may have a way to set a list of preferred languages. My Firefox does. If you prefer English then you can examine browser settings or ask for help at Wikipedia:Reference desk/Computing. Remember to name your browser. The setting can also affect multilingual websites. PrimeHunter (talk) 19:32, 5 May 2022 (UTC)
- How odd, ok. Brandmeistertalk 18:30, 4 May 2022 (UTC)
- After a while playing with it myself, I guess this is the intended behaviour, and that there are no bugs to be fixed. You can view any version by appending
- No, it seems, the Render this image parameter below the image is set to English and in my Preferences, Internationalisation is set to en - English. Brandmeistertalk 16:16, 1 May 2022 (UTC)
"Special pages"?
Hello, Village Pump Technical folks,
I was wondering if anyone here knew who or what bot was responsible for updating the Special Pages lists. Specifically, I'm interested in Special:UnusedCategories and Special:WantedCategories, lists which typically update every 3 days and are hours late updating today. The Wanted Categories helps us get rid of red link categories (per WP:REDNO) and the Unused Categories includes categories that are not included on the Database report of empty categories like maintenance categories so it is very useful. If I had my way, these lists would update daily, not every 3 days but, again, I'm not sure who to contact about this. The lists do have talk pages but if you visit them, you'll find questions posted from years ago that were never replied to so I'm not sure who is involved with maintaining these "special pages".
Any help or referral to who I could ask about this delay in posting the lists, would be much appreciated! Thanks! Liz Read! Talk! 20:02, 1 May 2022 (UTC)
- MediaWiki itself updates the lists automatically and periodically. It is also reported that other things have been much slower recently, so I guess this is just another one in multiple of consequences. NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh 20:24, 1 May 2022 (UTC)
- Those can't really be put on an less than 3 day update scheme, because all of the special pages collectively take 3 days to update - source: phab:T17434. Those are the responsibility of the developers.--Snævar (talk) 20:36, 1 May 2022 (UTC)
- Thank you so much for this information, NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh and Snævar, this is much more than I knew before about this group of pages. If it is coming from MediaWiki, well, then there is no bot operator I can try to convince to change the timing. I'll just be grateful for the reports when they do get updated. Thanks again. Liz Read! Talk! 21:36, 1 May 2022 (UTC)
- The special pages I use updated, as expected, on today, May 4th, so I guess what was broken has been fixed. Again, I appreciate the information provided here. Liz Read! Talk! 05:55, 5 May 2022 (UTC)
Can the source editor's regex replace change case?
In some regex implementations, \U, \L, \I and \F change case (to upper, lower, intials and first, respectively). Does the regex replace in WP's source editor do that? Cheers. — Guarapiranga ☎ 11:57, 3 May 2022 (UTC)
- @Guarapiranga: No, since they are not supported by JS regex. NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh 13:10, 3 May 2022 (UTC)
- Wouldn't testing it be a quicker way of knowing? Izno (talk) 17:34, 3 May 2022 (UTC)
- I did, of course, thank you. My question was whether it had any particular, perhaps undocumented, syntax that did that. — Guarapiranga ☎ 23:53, 5 May 2022 (UTC)
- You can do some things by replacing with a subst expression using string templates. See e.g. Template:String-handling templates. PrimeHunter (talk) 18:14, 3 May 2022 (UTC)
- Right! Hadn't thought of that, PrimeHunter. Thanks.P.S.: Actually, this is what I needed. — Guarapiranga ☎ 23:55, 5 May 2022 (UTC)
Is iCloud Private Relay the likely cause of my IP address being blocked from editing?
On different days, trying to edit different articles, when using the Safari browser, I was always receiving the "This IP address has been blocked from editing Wikipedia" message. I do not receive the message when using Chrome.
I'm on a Macbook Air m1 (2020); macOS Monterey 12.3.1 (21E258); Safari Version 15.4 (17613.1.17.1.13) [most recent, up-to-date versions].
If I google "What is my IP" on Safari I get an IPv6 address (xxxx:xxxx:xxxx:xxx::xx:xxx); on Chrome I get an IPv4 address (xx.xxx.xx.xxx). That might be normal - I don't know much about how this works.
I might have fixed the problem, but I'm not sure. I realized that iCloud Private Relay might be the problem. So I changed the Safari privacy setting [Safari > Preferences > Privacy > Hide IP address] from “From Trackers and Websites” to “From Trackers Only”. I closed Safari and then opened it. I no longer received the "this IP address has been blocked" message. Interestingly, when I changed the privacy setting back to "From Trackers and Websites" I was still good, i.e., I'm not blocked. (I spoke too soon. The block returned after 20 minutes. I have now changed it back to "From Trackers Only" where it will stay so that I can edit Wikipedia using Safari.)
Is iCloud Private Relay the likely culprit? If so, then I know what to do if this happens again! :)
Many thanks - Mark D Worthen PsyD (talk) [he/him] 07:15, 4 May 2022 (UTC)
- You will probably want to tune in to the discussion at meta:Talk:No open proxies/Unfair blocking and some set of the Phabricator tasks in this search. Izno (talk) 07:19, 4 May 2022 (UTC)
- Ah, thank you Izno. Now that I know what to search for, I found this also, in the Village pump archives: Effect of Apple’s iCloud Private Relay. Much appreciated - Mark D Worthen PsyD (talk) [he/him] 07:23, 4 May 2022 (UTC)
- Yes, we broadly block editing (not reading) from proxies and VPN's. You should turn that off here. — xaosflux Talk 15:05, 4 May 2022 (UTC)
- You can't turn it off "here". You have to turn it off "everywhere, including in situations that most internet-savvy people consider to involve bigger-than-usual privacy risks". There is no way to use that service only for certain websites and not for others. Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 18:40, 4 May 2022 (UTC)
- Maybe something like: Close your other tabs, switch off your Private Relay, edit Wikipedia, then turn Private Relay back on. Alternatively, just use another browser to edit here. And I'd just add that yes, it probably is the cause. Your experience varies because some Private Relay addresses are blocked, and some are not. -- zzuuzz (talk) 19:07, 4 May 2022 (UTC)
- Hmm, doesn't this feature you enabled only work with Safari? Perhaps use a different browser for sites you don't want to run through Apple's proxy? — xaosflux Talk 13:03, 6 May 2022 (UTC)
- That would be a solution for people like me, who normally keep multiple web browsers open anyway. I don't think it's practical for mobile editors or less tech-savvy people, though. You'd have to correctly guess what the cause is and guess that switching browsers would change your IP address (=a non-standard behavior). Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 20:47, 6 May 2022 (UTC)
- Isn't the standard behavior not to use that VPN? You have to both be a paying customer and opt-in for it? Perhaps we can improve some of our block messages to hint people about this. Looks like we have some hints in {{CDNblock}}, but not in {{Colocationwebhost}} - both of which I'm seeing on some of these blocks. @Markworthen - are you getting more in the block message than just "This IP address has been blocked from editing Wikipedia"? — xaosflux Talk 21:14, 6 May 2022 (UTC)
- That would be a solution for people like me, who normally keep multiple web browsers open anyway. I don't think it's practical for mobile editors or less tech-savvy people, though. You'd have to correctly guess what the cause is and guess that switching browsers would change your IP address (=a non-standard behavior). Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 20:47, 6 May 2022 (UTC)
- @User:Xaosflux - Nothing else. Adding info about iCloud Private Relay and similar "innocent" causes would forestall frustration and perhaps reduce support requests. Given our ongoing struggle to attract and retain good editors, improving usability is a worthwhile goal. Mark D Worthen PsyD (talk) [he/him] 01:53, 7 May 2022 (UTC)
- You can't turn it off "here". You have to turn it off "everywhere, including in situations that most internet-savvy people consider to involve bigger-than-usual privacy risks". There is no way to use that service only for certain websites and not for others. Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 18:40, 4 May 2022 (UTC)
Gallery pictures look blurry on Edge and Chrome (Windows)
- Edge version: 100.0.1185.50 (64-bit)
- Chrome version: 100.0.4896.127 (64-bit)
- Issue: On gallery templates, image previews look noticeably worse
- Tube·of·Light 14:31, 4 May 2022 (UTC)
- I'm not exactly seeing the issue here. The images look perfectly fine. ― Blaze WolfTalkBlaze Wolf#6545 14:33, 4 May 2022 (UTC)
- On the top four picture thumbnails there is some weird phenomenon kinda like aliasing (the left side of the linked picture). When I click on the thumbnails, it shows clear pictures. Tube·of·Light 16:09, 4 May 2022 (UTC)
- Ohhh! I see now. They're slightly pixelated. I was bit confused when you said the images were blurry. ― Blaze WolfTalkBlaze Wolf#6545 16:11, 4 May 2022 (UTC)h
- On the top four picture thumbnails there is some weird phenomenon kinda like aliasing (the left side of the linked picture). When I click on the thumbnails, it shows clear pictures. Tube·of·Light 16:09, 4 May 2022 (UTC)
- I can reproduce the issue in the same article as OP. The issue here seems to be related to wrapping the gallery onto multiple lines. If all the images are on the same line you get undersized and blurry previews, if you adjust the browser window so that the gallery wraps onto multiple lines they pop back to being full quality. 163.1.15.238 (talk) 15:13, 4 May 2022 (UTC)
- I checked just now and the images are blurry at zoom levels of 100% and lower, while zooming to 110% or higher fixes the issue. Tube·of·Light 16:11, 4 May 2022 (UTC)
- Gallery's do some up/down scaling at certain sizes, depending on the available space in the page, to try to make them fit the entire width of the page. This scaling can definitely have this effect and there probably is a bug that scales it down by 1 pixel, even at 100%. This is pretty old code that does this, and in hindsight, probably wasn't the smartest idea to add it at all, but its been in place for 10'ish years. The whole thing is not helped by the fact that Windows isn't that good at scaling images/text. —TheDJ (talk • contribs) 09:09, 5 May 2022 (UTC)
- I checked just now and the images are blurry at zoom levels of 100% and lower, while zooming to 110% or higher fixes the issue. Tube·of·Light 16:11, 4 May 2022 (UTC)
After the help I got here I was able to make this script work. Is anyone crafty enough to point me how to rewrite it in a more elegant way so I don't have to rewrite lines like I've already done? - Klein Muçi (talk) 00:23, 5 May 2022 (UTC)
- VPT is not a general support forum. Either return to the reference desk or try one of the many other forums on the Internet. Izno (talk) 01:31, 5 May 2022 (UTC)
- @Klein Muçi the link doesn't work for me.
- While i do think generally the VPT should be restricted to wikipedia, I'm not totally opposed to this request because there are many people here who would know how to fix it but dont watch that page. Besides, the ratio of Wikimedia to non wikimedia stuff Klein posts on here is very very very high so I don't think one off topic request is a bad thing. Rlink2 (talk) 01:58, 5 May 2022 (UTC)
- @Izno, is the Reference Desk located so far from the VPT as to treat like a whole different place? Just to be clear I was surprised myself when I heard about the existence of the ref-desk in the computing aspect in here (EnWiki) which basically replicated Stack Overflow, and it did take me quite some reading through its archives to make sure it was really supposed to work like that. For your personal curiosity, the whole thing is in fact 90% "related" to Wikimedia because of this and MediaWiki Gerrit notifications. It's been a while I'm struggling to deal with the large amount of emails from Wikimedia outlets. See phab:T300030 and this discussion to see what I mean. I get around 500-1000 emails per month just in regard to Wikimedia projects. You can also see this discussion with my attempts in automatic watchlist expirations and even my big support for such a feature in the 2022 Wishlist (ironically my vote is just behind yours), all attempts to cull the number of emails I get in an organic manner.
- @Rlink2, maybe this one will? - Klein Muçi (talk) 02:33, 5 May 2022 (UTC)
- @Klein Muçi:
is the Reference Desk located so far from the VPT as to treat like a whole different place?
Unequivocally. The reference desks are barely tolerated. VPT is for technical discussion focused on English Wikipedia. Izno (talk) 03:48, 5 May 2022 (UTC)The reference desks are barely tolerated.
- I wasn't aware of this reality at all. I will be more careful in regard to that aspect now. - Klein Muçi (talk) 07:54, 5 May 2022 (UTC)- I think in the future a notice saying "intrested people might be able to answer the question at the reference desk" so all discussion happens there, while still notifying the people that could answer the question. Again, 99% of people would probably be happy to answer anywhere, but just to keep 100% happy that is probably the best approach. And no one has identified any issues with him posting this here, all thats being said is that "its offtopic". Its kinda of like saying WP:IDONTLIKEIT. If someone thinks something is a problem, identify why it is a problem instead of just saying "its a problem". The time spent on saying "off topic" could be used to type out "its off topic, but i solved your question anyway here you go."
- I think Klein's post was acceptable because there is no way I would have known if he hadn't posted here. Because of his post, we got the problem fixed - at the end of the day Wikipedia is not a real life or a beucracrcy, we don't need to follow rules 100% exactly. Rlink2 (talk) 23:54, 5 May 2022 (UTC)
- I'm sure user Izno was only acting in good faith in protecting the integrity of the VPT domain. We have had the chance to stumble on each-other on some discussions around EnWiki on the past and I'm sure he also respects me the same as I do respect him and his contributions on this project.
- I was trying to get "straight to the point" with my title thinking that it would be a trivial deed which wouldn't require too much work and words (hence also the 2 lines of text below it) but some titles can be provocative and maybe coupled with the fact that the provided link (which should have brought more context) wasn't working, the post may have appeared a bit too "alienated" with this place.
- I already got my help thanks to you though so I suppose we can also end this discussion here if nothing else is to be added. Cheers! :) - Klein Muçi (talk) 02:05, 6 May 2022 (UTC)
- @Klein Muçi still not working, says its "private" Rlink2 (talk) 12:42, 5 May 2022 (UTC)
- @Rlink2, hmm... I'll continue this conversation on your talk page if that's okay with you. - Klein Muçi (talk) 12:44, 5 May 2022 (UTC)
- @Klein Muçi:
Google Indexing User Sandbox Pages
Was somewhat alarmed to see Google indexing User Sandbox pages e.g. This one [1]. I typically use this as an incubation page before getting articles to minimum standards for mainspace. But, this one was somewhat surprising almost alarming. Ktin (talk) 03:37, 5 May 2022 (UTC)
- Hard to say, as it is now moved and the search results already updated. But in general, Google considers almost everything a hint. Like noindex, is used by them as 'index but do not return in results'. And I'm pretty sure that if you are specific enough and its search ranking is high enough for what you are looking for it might STILL bring it to the surface. —TheDJ (talk • contribs) 08:59, 5 May 2022 (UTC)
- @TheDJ: Yup. Hard to say. Still seems to be returning the sandbox result. https://www.google.com/search?q=david+walden+wiki Ktin (talk) 16:21, 5 May 2022 (UTC)
- @Ktin: You could consider putting
{{User sandbox}}
at the top of all your sandbox pages. This will apply the__NOINDEX__
magic word. But be aware that once Google has indexed any page, it's difficult to persuade them to unindex it - whilst they may act on a page being changed from normal to NOINDEX, it's certainly not instantaneous. More at WP:NOINDEX. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 22:37, 6 May 2022 (UTC)
- @Ktin: You could consider putting
- @TheDJ: Yup. Hard to say. Still seems to be returning the sandbox result. https://www.google.com/search?q=david+walden+wiki Ktin (talk) 16:21, 5 May 2022 (UTC)
User blocker
Hi is there some template I can use to block individual editors or automated messages for prods and AFDs etc? I have a bot blocker but nothing I can code to block individual editors. Like on Twitter there ought to be a block user option from posting on your talk page.♦ Dr. Blofeld 09:22, 5 May 2022 (UTC)
- There is no way for you to turn off talk page messages from someone. You can turn off pings and emails, if you would like -- Guerillero Parlez Moi 12:20, 5 May 2022 (UTC)
- @Dr. Blofeld: phab:T165124 is about a possible user control to block other users from your usertalk. While this could be invented, I don't expect it will ever be part of the English Wikipedia. But what are these "automated" messages you are getting? Are these really "edits" someone is maybe using scripts to help make, or is this some other process? — xaosflux Talk 12:35, 6 May 2022 (UTC)
- I want something to block people with deletion prods and articles for deletion. So some sort of coding to block editors with "Proposed deletion" and "listing for deletion" notices from editing my talk page is probably possible.♦ Dr. Blofeld 12:44, 6 May 2022 (UTC)
- @Dr. Blofeld right now the only way to do that would be with an edit filter, targeting your talk page - and that's not going to happen. Now, if perhaps you were only concerned with assisted edits that come from Twinkle (such as these) you could ask over at Wikipedia talk:Twinkle. Perhaps they could build a blacklist of "Users that do not want Twinkle assisted talk notices" in to that script. — xaosflux Talk 12:51, 6 May 2022 (UTC)
- Is this one specific individual pestering you? Admins can set a WP:PBLOCK on a named individual that prevents them from editing certain pages. This is normally only done for a good reason, not "this user is annoying me". --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 22:29, 6 May 2022 (UTC)
- I want something to block people with deletion prods and articles for deletion. So some sort of coding to block editors with "Proposed deletion" and "listing for deletion" notices from editing my talk page is probably possible.♦ Dr. Blofeld 12:44, 6 May 2022 (UTC)
@Redrose64: It would make a considerable difference if I didn't get notices from User:Donaldd23. I have asked him in the past not to spam my talk page with messages.♦ Dr. Blofeld 09:20, 10 May 2022 (UTC)
- I apologize for notifying you when I submit an article for PROD or AfD. I use TWINKLE and it automatically is set to notify the creator of the article. I do not recall you asking me not to notify you, but I will do my best in the future to uncheck the box and not have it notify you. Thank you. DonaldD23 talk to me 11:59, 10 May 2022 (UTC)
Movement Strategy Implementation Grant for the creation of an all-purpose file tool
Hello! I'll be developing an all-purpose file tool that includes the feature to detect potential copyright-violating images that also appear on the Internet. I thought it would be a good idea to request a Movement Strategy Implementation Grant from the Wikimedia Foundation. You can find more information about the scope of the tool and the grant on m:Grants:Project/MSIG/EpicPupper/Fortuna. Feel free to leave comments, questions, suggestions, or ideas on the grant talk page, and endorsements or offers to translate or localize the tool in the relevant sections. Thanks! 🐶 EpicPupper (he/him | talk) 09:24, 5 May 2022 (UTC)
New "named" group
As of gerrit:778684, there is now an implicit "named" group; currently, it applies to all users. This is causing issues in some scripts, but seems to be intended behavior on MW's end, so I haven't filed a Phab task about it. If someone does think it's unintended behavior, they're free to file.
What it does mean, though, is that a number of scripts need to be updated to exclude "named" as a meaningful group, just like they exclude "user" and often "autoconfirmed", perhaps most notably Navigation popups. I'll try to get to that and User:PleaseStand/userinfo.js presently, but I'm sure there's others. -- Tamzin[cetacean needed] (she/they) 12:12, 5 May 2022 (UTC)
- Okay, looks like this is being disabled for now. Still might be a good idea to cover these bases before it does go into effect as part of IP masking. -- Tamzin[cetacean needed] (she/they) 12:45, 5 May 2022 (UTC)
- Self-closing. Tim said the name "named" may change, so there's nothing that can be done now, script-update-wise. -- Tamzin[cetacean needed] (she/they) 12:51, 5 May 2022 (UTC)
- Unclosed for more comments. — xaosflux Talk 13:48, 5 May 2022 (UTC)
- I was about to unclose this myself, as based on further conversation with Tim, it does look like "named" will be final as the internal name, with the default message for the name still TBD (maybe "registered user"). -- Tamzin[cetacean needed] (she/they) 13:52, 5 May 2022 (UTC)
- Unclosed for more comments. — xaosflux Talk 13:48, 5 May 2022 (UTC)
- I initiated the local messages and updated the most popular gadget (navpopups) using this to put the name "Named user" on it, and not to populate navpopups with this. — xaosflux Talk 13:48, 5 May 2022 (UTC)
- This is a stopgap, expect we can revert once the train comes around again and use "Registered user" or whatever it will be. — xaosflux Talk 15:32, 5 May 2022 (UTC)
- This is confusing nomenclature. What exactly is a "named user" as opposed to just a "user"? I believe all "users" are registered accounts, so what's the difference from "named user"? Themaxtiger (talk) 15:56, 5 May 2022 (UTC)
- @Themaxtiger In a few months/years editors that aren't logged in are going to be identified by pseudo-anonymous names rather than IP addresses (for some kind of privacy reason that hasn't really been explained), so instead of the software having groups "all" (for both IPs and logged in editors) and "users" (for registered accounts) they're going to have groups that will be something like "registered users/named users" and "unregistered users/anonymous users". This should be a mostly behind the scenes change, We'll probably have to fix a few edit filters and the like but most things where this is used (like determining whether you have the right to perform an action) should be updated by the devs. 192.76.8.77 (talk) 18:44, 5 May 2022 (UTC)
for some kind of privacy reason that hasn't really been explained
→ see this on meta. It gives two reasons: preventing unsavory governments from finding out who made certain edits, and something about privacy norms related to RGPD (it’s not clear from the text if Legal believes that posting the IP addresses could be a legal problem, or if they think the spirit of RGPD means there is some societal pressure to mask it).- IMO the most likely attack model is not government actors. Rather, if Alice shares a household or at least a computer with Bob (she could be a spouse, roommate, parent...), she can easily see what edits Bob made, retrieving Bob’s IP address with access to the computer takes little technical skill. (I know, IP rotate with DHCP etc. but Alice can at least find out a good portion of Bob’s edits.) TigraanClick here for my talk page ("private" contact) 13:26, 6 May 2022 (UTC)
- @Themaxtiger In a few months/years editors that aren't logged in are going to be identified by pseudo-anonymous names rather than IP addresses (for some kind of privacy reason that hasn't really been explained), so instead of the software having groups "all" (for both IPs and logged in editors) and "users" (for registered accounts) they're going to have groups that will be something like "registered users/named users" and "unregistered users/anonymous users". This should be a mostly behind the scenes change, We'll probably have to fix a few edit filters and the like but most things where this is used (like determining whether you have the right to perform an action) should be updated by the devs. 192.76.8.77 (talk) 18:44, 5 May 2022 (UTC)
- This is confusing nomenclature. What exactly is a "named user" as opposed to just a "user"? I believe all "users" are registered accounts, so what's the difference from "named user"? Themaxtiger (talk) 15:56, 5 May 2022 (UTC)
- This is a stopgap, expect we can revert once the train comes around again and use "Registered user" or whatever it will be. — xaosflux Talk 15:32, 5 May 2022 (UTC)
Talk page appears in Google search results
What accounts for the Talk page of this article, but not the article page, appearing in the Google index?
In this Tea house discussion, OP Llmeyers (talk · contribs) asks about the recently created Carey R. Dunne article, and why a Google search turns up only the Talk page, providing the following link: https://www.google.com/search?q=carey+r+dunne+wiki&oq=carey+r+&aqs=chrome.0.69i59l3j69i57j0i512j69i60l3.1165j0j9&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
Checking their link, I can confirm that "Talk:Carey R. Dunne - Wikipedia" appears as Google's #2 result (and that the article page does not appear anywhere on the result page). Note that their search query includes the keyword "wiki" along with the article title, and dropping that keyword changes the results so that the Talk page result appears at #24 in the results, but still doesn't surface the article page. I thought our Talk pages weren't indexed at all, but that's clearly not true. Mathglot (talk) 22:32, 5 May 2022 (UTC)
- @Mathglot Seems like Google is doing their best. That article is new, and is still unreviewed, if you patrol it it should become indexed and Google will likely give it precedence. — xaosflux Talk 23:07, 5 May 2022 (UTC)
- Do we know (or can we guess) what property of the talk page makes it more attractive to Google than the article? I realise that search engines are requested not to index new articles, but I assume that applies to new (and old) talk pages too. Certes (talk) 23:58, 5 May 2022 (UTC)
- Yes, that's what confused me, as well. Seems to me, any
noindex
metatag on a mainspace article should be automatically propagated to Talk. Maybe I should add a phab ticket about this? Mathglot (talk) 00:27, 6 May 2022 (UTC) Tracked in T307753. Mathglot (talk) 00:44, 6 May 2022 (UTC)- The Google hit is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft_talk:Carey_R._Dunne which redirects to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Carey_R._Dunne. But MediaWiki doesn't make normal url redirection like HTTP 301. Instead it has JavaScript which rewrites the url in browsers with JavaScript enabled, but doesn't reload the page afterwards. The content is loaded from the original url. You see the contents of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Carey_R._Dunne but you are actually on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft_talk:Carey_R._Dunne. I guess that's how Google treats it. PrimeHunter (talk) 01:29, 6 May 2022 (UTC)
- I didn't completely follow your explanation about Google vs. Mediawiki, but let's start at the top with what we do know and control, namely, with which pages we tag as
noindex
and which ones we don't. Here's what we have currently (a 'yes' below means that the page code contains<meta name="robots" content="noindex,nofollow"/>
on the page). Note the asymmetric distribution of "noindex" metatags among the four related articles:- Carey R. Dunne – yes
- Talk:Carey R. Dunne – no
- Draft:Carey R. Dunne – yes (redirects to Carey R. Dunne)
- Draft talk:Carey R. Dunne – yes (redirects to Talk:Carey R. Dunne)
- Given this situation, when you say "The Google hit is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft_talk:Carey_R._Dunn", how can that possibly be? Even a targeted site search query doesn't find the Draft page. So that theory (or at least, the first part of it, which I think I understood) can't be right. Mathglot (talk) 03:46, 6 May 2022 (UTC)
- Why don't we add noindex,nofollow to Talk: pages, at least when the corresponding mainspace page has noindex,nofollow? Certes (talk) 11:56, 6 May 2022 (UTC)
- Your links made with {{noredirect}} link to en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php. Our robots.txt at https://en.wikipedia.org/robots.txt says
Disallow: /w/
so indexing is disallowed. robots.txt tells spiders like Googlebot that they shouldn't even visit the page to see whether it has noindex. At the English Wikipedia we can only control indexing for some links to en.wikipedia.org/wiki/. If you view https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft_talk:Carey_R._Dunne with JavaScript disabled in your browser then you see the contents of the redirect target https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Carey_R._Dunne but you still have the former url in the adress bar and there is nonoindex
. Normal Internet redirects use List of HTTP status codes#3xx redirection, typically HTTP 301, and don't require JavaScript. A MediaWiki redirect is not a "real" redirect. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft_talk:Carey_R._Dunne gives HTTP 200. It can be checked with an external tool like https://www.redirect-checker.org/, or with a feature in many browsers. PrimeHunter (talk) 16:08, 6 May 2022 (UTC)- I can barely follow all this! Super technical. :( Llmeyers (talk) 18:51, 7 May 2022 (UTC)
- If you ask me to mail you a copy of Alice in Wonderland, I can mail you a note to you saying, "Please ask me for Alice's Adventures in Wonderland". You would then ask me for Alice's Adventures in Wonderland and I'd mail you a copy of the book. This is the standard way to do redirection, and so any metadata associated with the request containing the correct name will be returned with the second envelope. Alternatively, I can just return Alice's Adventures in Wonderland directly to you, saving you from having to make another request. However since I've just pretended that the book has a different name, you're getting the reply envelope from the first request, Alice in Wonderland, but with the book Alice's Adventures in Wonderland inside. Google is still getting a response using a request to the Draft talk page, but with the contents of the article talk page, so it gets the article talk page inside the reply envelope for the Draft talk page. isaacl (talk) 20:08, 7 May 2022 (UTC)
- (edit conflict) @Llmeyers:, I'm sorry, yes, it is quite technical in parts, and some of it is difficult for me to follow, as well. I think part of the confusion here, is that there are essentially two conversations going on here at once, and they aren't separated into separate subsections, but are interleaved together. One conversation, as I see it, is functional: "Here is what happens now; do we want it to happen that way?" Certes succinctly articulated the "what" question just above.
- The other conversation is a "why" question: "Why is it happening this way now?" and the answer may have to do with technical issues concerning HTTP responses (how the internet handles moved pages), javascript, and Mediawiki software (Wikipedia runs on software created by the Wikimedia Foundation, which also supports Wiktionary, Wikiquote, and other sister projects).
- Sidebar: As an aside on one technical point: the one "new bit" of info for me, was this: "A MediaWiki redirect is not a 'real' redirect." An HTTP 200 response is what your browser gets back when a page is FOUND on the internet; an HTTP 301 response is what you get when there is no content there, instead there is just a pointer to a page somewhere else. Let's say your browser asks for wikipedia's Georgeoia (i.e, the url in the browser address bar has the wikipedia domain address and that weird spelling at the end); instead of saying "NOT FOUND" and leave you staring at an error page, it could just send your browser an HTTP 301 and link you to the "Georgia" page instead. But apparently mediawiki "cheats", so to speak, and sends back a "HTTP 200" (FOUND!) even if the page is a redirect, and works out what page to show you on its own. The "cheating" part is related to the Phabricator ticket that Izno linked below.
- But you don't need to know any of the technical stuff, which is basically about the "why-question", in order to participate here if you wish; just try to parse out which parts of it are about the "what-question", and just respond to that part. Hope this helps! Mathglot (talk) 21:14, 7 May 2022 (UTC)
- Thank you Mathglot! This is helpful. Should I change anything on the article right now? Llmeyers (talk) 19:00, 8 May 2022 (UTC)
- Hi Llmeyers, assuming you are talking about improving the Carey R. Dunne article, since this Village pump discussion is restricted to the topic of why a Wikipedia Talk page appears in search engine results, your question about the article is actually off-topic here, which may seem paradoxical, because it was your experience with the article that got this all started! So, I'd ask you to go to Talk:Carey R. Dunne, and ask your question there if you wish. Feel free to {{ping}} me or any user(s) you would like to invite to the discussion there.
- If, on the other hand, you are asking about whether you need to change anything in the article in order to solve, or mitigate the Google Talk page indexing issue, then the answer is "no". Mathglot (talk) 19:53, 8 May 2022 (UTC)
- Thank you Mathglot! This is helpful. Should I change anything on the article right now? Llmeyers (talk) 19:00, 8 May 2022 (UTC)
- @Llmeyers, was this "I can barely follow all this!..." meant to be a pun? I found it amusing. 73.127.147.187 (talk) 04:41, 9 May 2022 (UTC)
- I can barely follow all this! Super technical. :( Llmeyers (talk) 18:51, 7 May 2022 (UTC)
- For which the relevant task is phab:T53736. Izno (talk) 21:05, 7 May 2022 (UTC)
- I didn't completely follow your explanation about Google vs. Mediawiki, but let's start at the top with what we do know and control, namely, with which pages we tag as
- The Google hit is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft_talk:Carey_R._Dunne which redirects to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Carey_R._Dunne. But MediaWiki doesn't make normal url redirection like HTTP 301. Instead it has JavaScript which rewrites the url in browsers with JavaScript enabled, but doesn't reload the page afterwards. The content is loaded from the original url. You see the contents of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Carey_R._Dunne but you are actually on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft_talk:Carey_R._Dunne. I guess that's how Google treats it. PrimeHunter (talk) 01:29, 6 May 2022 (UTC)
- Yes, that's what confused me, as well. Seems to me, any
- Do we know (or can we guess) what property of the talk page makes it more attractive to Google than the article? I realise that search engines are requested not to index new articles, but I assume that applies to new (and old) talk pages too. Certes (talk) 23:58, 5 May 2022 (UTC)
- @Mathglot Right, I also thought that all talk pages had "noindex". (That's clear from my comment at the help desk (or TH).) After reading this, and the Phab ticket, I must have been wrong.
- Are user pages noindexed, to discourage people from putting their autobiographies there? Somewhere, I know that we tell people not to bother putting autobios in user pages, or maybe it's in sandboxes. Thanks. 73.127.147.187 (talk) 09:41, 8 May 2022 (UTC)
- I wonder how many indexed autobiographies lurk on unloved talk pages. Certes (talk) 11:16, 8 May 2022 (UTC)
- @Certes: Here is a list of some google-indexed 'Talk' pages for biographies at Wikipedia. But this isn't a list of Talk pages whose mainspace page is not indexed, and I don't know a simple search to get that list. There appear to be about 233 of them
indexedreturned (at my default 50 results per page, SRP #5 shows 33 results). It's not at all clear to me what the common feature is of the Talk pages in that list. Mathglot (talk) 20:19, 8 May 2022 (UTC) (edit conflict) Dropping the WikiProject from the query string returns almost the identical number of results, but the result set is almost completely disjoint from the result set of the biography search, so clearly they are not surfacing all the results they have. Mathglot (talk) 20:26, 8 May 2022 (UTC) - Talk pages are not noindexed by default, but the presence of certain banners can mark the page as noindex without you being immediately aware. This occurs with, for example,
{{BLP}}
; and thus it also occurs with{{WikiProject Biography|living=yes}}
. User pages are also not noindexed by default; as regards user sandboxes, see my post of 22:37, 6 May 2022 (UTC) above. - To check whether any given page is presently noindexed, click its "Page information" link in the left sidebar. In there, the first box (Basic information) should have an entry named "Indexing by robots", and this will show either "Allowed" or "Disallowed". --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 20:23, 8 May 2022 (UTC)
- @Redrose64 do you mean that the actual BLP articles are noindexed, or the talk pages for BLP articles are noindexed? I would expect BLP articles to be indexed by search engines. 73.127.147.187 (talk) 04:44, 9 May 2022 (UTC)
- Edited to add: I do see experienced editors tell novice editors that it won't help to put autobios in user or user-talk pages because search engines won't see them. That's why I thought all user and user-talk (and, I was guessing, article talk) pages had noindex by default. I'll check a few, but that won't tell me the default... I don't want to beat this to death though... Thanks. 73.127.147.187 (talk) 04:51, 9 May 2022 (UTC)
- The
__NOINDEX__
magic word only affects the page on which it is used. Therefore, when used on a talk page (whether directly, or indirectly (by means of a template) it is the talk page that is noindexed. The subject page is not affected. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 19:47, 9 May 2022 (UTC)
- @Certes: Here is a list of some google-indexed 'Talk' pages for biographies at Wikipedia. But this isn't a list of Talk pages whose mainspace page is not indexed, and I don't know a simple search to get that list. There appear to be about 233 of them
- I wonder how many indexed autobiographies lurk on unloved talk pages. Certes (talk) 11:16, 8 May 2022 (UTC)
- Here is a count of noindexed pages for each namespace. Subtracting from total page counts gives a rough count of indexed pages. Certes (talk) 10:37, 9 May 2022 (UTC)
Global vector.js
I used to put in vector.js the scripts I wanted on the desktop, but not on the mobile (is that the best way?). Now, I've decided to migrate it all to my global (meta.WM) profile, as I've started to contribute more to non-enwiki. I've tried the same 'trick' there, but to no avail. Is there a global equivalent to skin specific js files? How does one separate mobile vs desktop scripts, globally? Cheers. — Guarapiranga ☎ 11:59, 6 May 2022 (UTC)
- @Guarapiranga you can't do exactly what you want. You centralwiki:User:global.(js|css) is a uniquely special page. You can read more about it here: mw:Help:Extension:GlobalCssJs. You can put conditionals or more specific class items in it (e.f. mw:Help:Extension:GlobalCssJs#Per-skin_customization). In general you can select mobile or not mobile best by applying things to the minerva skin. — xaosflux Talk 12:24, 6 May 2022 (UTC)
- That clears it, @Xaosflux. Cheers. Specifically, FWIMC:
My solution then is to bracket everything withCurrently the extension does not provide global CSS/JS for specific skins (mw:Help:Extension:GlobalCssJs#Per-skin_customization)
if (mw.config.get('skin') === 'vector') { ... }
for now, and progressively pull out the stuff I want to see on the mobile too. Probably also a better solution than what I was doing for lang specific common.js. Thanks. — Guarapiranga ☎ 12:39, 6 May 2022 (UTC)- @Guarapiranga: Unless you change skin setting, you have three places to put user scripts, all are linked from Preferences → Appearance:
- Special:MyPage/skin.js - for scripts specific to one skin on one wiki
- Special:MyPage/common.js - for scripts suitable for all skins on one wiki
- m:Special:MyPage/global.js - for scripts suitable for all skins on all wikis
- In each case, there is a corresponding .css page available. There is no provision for skin-specific pages shared by all wikis. Regarding your JavaScript code snippet, the technique for m:Special:MyPage/global.css would be different - each skin-specific rule would, in general, need to have each of its selectors prefixed with
.skin-minerva
- note the trailing space. So a rule likewould become.foo, .bar { display: none; }
HTH. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 13:56, 7 May 2022 (UTC).skin-minerva .foo, .skin-minerva .bar { display: none; }
- @Guarapiranga: Unless you change skin setting, you have three places to put user scripts, all are linked from Preferences → Appearance:
- That clears it, @Xaosflux. Cheers. Specifically, FWIMC:
Bot issue
I've caught an issue with a bot that may need somebody here to fix. It's not a "permanently deprecate the bot entirely" level of crisis or anything, but it does need some attention.
User:Jura1/pages with Wikidata items without any statements is a report page, automatically generated by User:ListeriaBot to keep track of a maintenance issue. It seems like a perfectly legitimate and useful list in principle — but the problem is that if one of the pages it picks up corresponds to a category, then it just lists the category like an article and causes that workpage to be filed in the category instead of just linking to the category. However, pages like that aren't supposed to be filed in articlespace categories at all, meaning that I have to remove or disable the categories — but then ListeriaBot will undo any changes I make to the list the next time it runs that job, and thus throw the page right back into categories it isn't supposed to be in again.
But ListeriaBot's primary owner hasn't edited Wikipedia since December 2021, so I don't know if leaving a talk page message for them would reach them or not.
So does anybody know if User:Magnus Manske is actually active and just not contributing here that much, or can anybody else go into ListeriaBot themselves, to ensure that if ListeriaBot has to output a category to a worklist for whatever reason, it does so as a disabled text link (e.g. leading colon or the {{cl}} template) so that the worklist doesn't get categorized as an article? Thanks. Bearcat (talk) 13:09, 6 May 2022 (UTC)
- @Bearcat that user has edited globally as recently as yesterday - so yse, you should start by asking on the botop's talk page (perhaps post at User talk:ListeriaBot and leave a message on the botop talk page pointing to it). — xaosflux Talk 13:12, 6 May 2022 (UTC)
Module:Graph bundle interpolation curvature index (beta)
I've added the following question at Module talk:Graph, but since the edit notice there suggests posting it here (as that page is not watched by as many users), I'm copying it here too:
The default d3 curvature parameter for the bundle interpolation method, .85, can often be too "erratic" in some applications (as pointed out here, and seen there). The basis method is even more "erratic," as it's standard spline bolted at the extremities, corresponding to a bundle beta of 1, but d3 also accepts other betas. Is that an option with this module (and accompanying template)? I couldn't figure it out from perusing the code. Cheers. — Guarapiranga ☎ 11:15, 4 May 2022 (UTC)
— Preceding unsigned comment added by Guarapiranga (talk • contribs) 13:35, 6 May 2022 (UTC)
- Code in software that WMF uses and is maintained by other parties is not changed by the WMF or any volunteer of WMF. This would be fixed by the Vega or D3 team. There is some work that exists to upgrade Vega to Vega 3, see phab:T223026, but no WMF team is responsible for Vega/Graph right now. Only an developer can answer the D3 question, so please lets keep this discussion to the issue at hand and not try to figure out some fixes in Vega/D3 codebase. For those that are curious, Module:Graph uses Vega, which in turn uses D3.--Snævar (talk) 16:41, 6 May 2022 (UTC)
- What's to fix, Snævar? I just asked whether Module:Graph had the beta parameter already in d3 (not sure about Vega--couldn't find anything about it in its docs). If not, I aimed at inspiring someone to add it in (I looked through the code, but it wasn't evident to me where it would fit in). — Guarapiranga ☎ 04:42, 7 May 2022 (UTC)
- First, test if this also is the case in recent Vega (putting the Module:Graph invoke into Special:ExpandTemplates, removing the graph tags and copying that into Vega editor will suffice). Secondly, if it is also an issue there, report it in vega/D3 bugtrackers, it is upto them to fix it.--Snævar (talk) 07:26, 8 May 2022 (UTC)
- I don't have an "issue," Snævar; there's nothing to "fix" (that I can see). It's really an enhancement that I'm after. Module:Graph is working splendidly, but it could work even better if editors were able to specify the beta parameter in the bundle interpolation, so that trends could be made less "erratic" than this, as MathewMunro pointed out here.
- I tried your exercise, but I'm afraid I failed. Copying over the expanded template (in between
<graph>
tags) into the Vega editor gave me a bunch of warnings and errors. I'm clearly not doing this right. I was able, though, to load up their own example, add the bundle interpolation there (which was oddly missing among all the others present), and make the curve change. Again, I couldn't figure out where to stick in a beta there. The d3 doc (is Vega a d3 wrapper?) only says to call it like this, e.g.:Cheers. — Guarapiranga ☎ 11:42, 8 May 2022 (UTC)const line = d3.line().curve(d3.curveBundle.beta(0.5));
- First, test if this also is the case in recent Vega (putting the Module:Graph invoke into Special:ExpandTemplates, removing the graph tags and copying that into Vega editor will suffice). Secondly, if it is also an issue there, report it in vega/D3 bugtrackers, it is upto them to fix it.--Snævar (talk) 07:26, 8 May 2022 (UTC)
- What's to fix, Snævar? I just asked whether Module:Graph had the beta parameter already in d3 (not sure about Vega--couldn't find anything about it in its docs). If not, I aimed at inspiring someone to add it in (I looked through the code, but it wasn't evident to me where it would fit in). — Guarapiranga ☎ 04:42, 7 May 2022 (UTC)
Sandbox page in categories
User:Skyblueshaun/sandbox2 is being artificially transcluded via template into three articlespace categories; however, as WP:USERNOCAT strictly prohibits this, I have to disable or remove the categories from the page, but I can't figure out what templates the categories are coming from: none of the navigational boxes seem to be transcluding any categories that I can see, so I tried wrapping {{Infobox football club season}} in {{Suppress categories}} on the theory that the categories were coming from there, but that didn't work either. Can somebody determine where the categories are coming from so that the page can be removed from them somehow? Thanks. Bearcat (talk) 14:12, 6 May 2022 (UTC)
- Fixed in Special:Diff/1086498714 * Pppery * it has begun... 14:17, 6 May 2022 (UTC)
- Probably from Module:Sports table. Gonnym (talk) 14:17, 6 May 2022 (UTC)
- Actually it wasn't from that module, but from a transclsuion of the entire article 2022–23 EFL League One. The approach I used to find the categories was to run
{{User:Skyblueshaun/sandbox2}}
through Special:ExpandTemplates and the Ctrl-F for "Category:" * Pppery * it has begun... 14:19, 6 May 2022 (UTC)
- Actually it wasn't from that module, but from a transclsuion of the entire article 2022–23 EFL League One. The approach I used to find the categories was to run
Unfortunately, now I've got another case: User:Ɱ/sandbox and User:Ɱ/sandbox29 are both displaying in Category:Columbus Register properties. I tried using the tool mentioned above to solve this myself, but both pages are such utter profusions of templates upon templates that I just can't make heads or tails of the results in order to know where to throw a {{Suppress categories}} wrapper. Help? Bearcat (talk) 15:31, 6 May 2022 (UTC)
- Fixed in Special:Diff/1086509364 * Pppery * it has begun... 15:33, 6 May 2022 (UTC)
And now User:Mdale/wikitrust.js, which is showing up in Category:Computer graphics — but since it's obviously a user's javascript settings file rather than a sandbox, I don't know how to fix it at all since it's not a conventional category declaration and the page is protected at a usergroup level ("interface administrator") that I don't think I have, but the page still can't be left in an articlespace category. Bearcat (talk) 15:39, 6 May 2022 (UTC)
- User talk:Mdale/wikitrust.js#Interface-protected edit request on 6 May 2022. For what it's worth you indeed don't have interface administrator access. Thank you for doing this cleanup, by the way. * Pppery * it has begun... 15:45, 6 May 2022 (UTC)
Is the clock right?
Hey, Village Pump Tech folks,
I have a clock in the upper-righthand corner of my browser window and lately, the time has been off by, I'm guessing, 10-20 seconds. For example, if the clock states that it is 10:49:40 UTC and I make an edit, the edit summary on the page states that it occurred at 10:50. I've only noticed this happening recently. I checked in my Preferences and I think the clock is Gadget-UTCLiveClock.js so I've left a message at the MediaWiki talk page but I thought I'd mention it here in case anyone noticed that their clocks were a bit off. Also, the time moves at an inconsistent speed, some seconds pass by quicker than others for some reason. I really don't spend my time on Wikipedia watching the clock but some tasks are time-sensitive and the time an edit happens is important. Or could this just be my laptop? Thanks for any clue you can bring to my query. Liz Read! Talk! 02:07, 7 May 2022 (UTC)
- I am curious which non bot tasks on Wikipedia are so time sensitive that 10-20 seconds will make a difference? ಮಲ್ನಾಡಾಚ್ ಕೊಂಕ್ಣೊ (talk) 05:31, 7 May 2022 (UTC)
- There are a few possible factors here:
- The gadget shows the time set on your local computer, which may be off. Wikimedia's servers most likely use Network Time Protocol to set accurate time.
- If your edit takes 10 to 20 seconds after hitting "submit" to travel the Internet and be processed and saved, that could also make the difference.
- As for the "some seconds pass quicker", again it's running on your laptop. Your browser may be delaying or skipping some of the updates of the display, particularly if other programs are using a lot of CPU. There's also the possibility that the stopped-clock illusion plays a part.
- HTH. Anomie⚔ 11:22, 7 May 2022 (UTC)
- Try going to https://time.gov/. NIST is the authoritative source for time in the US (and a major collaborator in the international pool of time reference sources). They're telling me that my system clock is off by -0.019s. No wonder I'm always showing up late for meetings :-) I'd be surprised if anybody's system clock was off by more than a fraction of a second. NTP is totally ubiquitous these days, and most operating systems come with it enabled out of the box.
- You can call +1 303 499 7111 to hear the time signal on your phone. In the old days, this was an exceptionally accurate way to get the time. These days, I'm not so sure. Calls today often use VOIP, which introduces all sorts of network delays. The signal was certainly accurate when it left the transmitter in Ft. Collins, Colorado, but who knows what happens by the time it comes out of your cell phone speaker. If you have a shortwave receiver, you can listen to WWV (or similar stations around the world).
- Sorry, I've digressed. Can you tell I'm a time freak? But seriously, go to time.gov to see if your system clock is set right. -- RoySmith (talk) 14:47, 7 May 2022 (UTC)
Way to access infobox and templates without "View this page" (V) button
Is there any way to access infobox and other templates without "View this page" (V) button without need to go to "Edit" then copy name of template and search Template: + name of template? Eurohunter (talk) 09:53, 7 May 2022 (UTC)
- I get a list of all templates used in an article below the edit box. —Kusma (talk) 10:21, 7 May 2022 (UTC)
- That only happens if you use the edit tab for the whole page. If you edit a section, the template list only appears if you use the Show preview button while editing. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 18:41, 7 May 2022 (UTC)
- @Eurohunter: "Page information" under Tools shows up to 50 transcluded pages but we often have far more. The edit tab for the whole page has a complete list under "Pages transcluded onto the current version of this page" at the bottom of the edit window. You may have to click a small triangle to see the list. PrimeHunter (talk) 21:31, 7 May 2022 (UTC)
- That only happens if you use the edit tab for the whole page. If you edit a section, the template list only appears if you use the Show preview button while editing. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 18:41, 7 May 2022 (UTC)
Help with quarry
I am trying to create a query that will get a list of IP talkpages that; have not been edited in the last 5 years, the IP is not currently blocked and there have been no edits from that IP in the last 5 years. I have individual queries to get list of IP talkpages, check if an IP is blocked, check if an IP has edited after a timestamp and check whether a page has received edits after a timestamp. I tried to combine all 4 of these to work together at quarry:query/64344 but not having any luck. ಮಲ್ನಾಡಾಚ್ ಕೊಂಕ್ಣೊ (talk) 11:20, 7 May 2022 (UTC)
- @ಮಲ್ನಾಡಾಚ್ ಕೊಂಕ್ಣೊ: WT:Quarry is a good place to ask, but I've had a go in quarry:query/64387. I've joined to the current revision rather than having a subquery check for all recent ones, and used the revision_userindex alternative view for efficiency when checking for edits to other pages. It doesn't detect range blocks; that would naively need
page_title between ipb_range_start and ipb_range_end
, except that doesn't work: 1.2.100.0 is textually between 1.2.0.0 and 1.2.3.255 but unaffected by a block on that range. You'd need to do some intricate string manipulation to pad with zeroes. This won't be a quick query – we have a lot of IP editors – and may need splitting withand page_title like "1%"
etc. (Beware that most IPv6s begin with 20.) Certes (talk) 13:47, 7 May 2022 (UTC)- @Certes: thanks for the effort. For IP ranges, I tested quarry:query/64379; it seems like it is possible to check if an IP is between a range by converting it to hexadecimal using
HEX(INET6_ATON('<ip_address>'))
. ಮಲ್ನಾಡಾಚ್ ಕೊಂಕ್ಣೊ (talk) 16:50, 7 May 2022 (UTC) - I have forked and created quarry:query/64398 to check for range blocks as well, but it takes a long time to execute even when the first octet is specified. ಮಲ್ನಾಡಾಚ್ ಕೊಂಕ್ಣೊ (talk) 12:23, 9 May 2022 (UTC)
- @Certes: thanks for the effort. For IP ranges, I tested quarry:query/64379; it seems like it is possible to check if an IP is between a range by converting it to hexadecimal using
JS equivalent of FULLPAGENAME
Were I on, say, the Portuguese Wikipedia, what MediaWiki Javascript function can I use to parse an arbitrary string (e.g ':uSuÁrIo : example'
) and get the same result as {{FULLPAGENAME:uSuÁrIo : example}}
(Usuário(a):Example
)?
I'm aware of mw.Title
but it requires a second argument to specify namespace. I need a high-performant one so action=parse
is not an option either. NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh 15:03, 7 May 2022 (UTC)
- mw.Title.newFromText(':uSuÁrIo : example').toText() – SD0001 (talk) 15:54, 7 May 2022 (UTC)
- Thanks! NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh 16:19, 7 May 2022 (UTC)
Importing Wikipedia dump on Windows
Hello, I would like to conduct some research on Wikipedia, but appeared that there is no documentation on how to import it into MySQL, at least for Windows case. I'm stuck with converting XML-file into SQL-file. Could somebody help me out with this? --Igor Yalovecky (talk) 16:30, 7 May 2022 (UTC)
- Depending what information you want, dumps are available both in SQL and in XML. Beware that some files are very large. More information: WP:DUMP, which has several useful links. Certes (talk) 17:30, 7 May 2022 (UTC)
- Even better, meta:Data dumps. And "very large" is an understatement. The most recent full dump for enwiki is 1.8 TB for the compressed files. Importing this into your typical desktop PC just isn't going to be practical. For most people, a more useful strategy would be to get a Cloud VPS or Toolforge account and access the data that way, either by using the on-line dump files, or by executing queries against the database replicas. Be aware, however, that there is a bit of a learning curve to this. -- RoySmith (talk) 02:57, 8 May 2022 (UTC)
- @Igor Yalovecky Does MySQL "Load XML" not do what you want?
- I know that I risk getting flamed by free software advocates (I understand, I really do)... But FYI, Microsoft SQL server has had a free version (for both development and production) for a few releases now -- and it has a true XML datatype that works pretty well. Unfortunately, the free version of MS SQL is limited to a 10GB database. For about $700, you can get the Standard edition, which us limited to ... um .... a 524 petabyte database size.... If you have that much storage! This probably didn't help much, sorry. 73.127.147.187 (talk) 10:10, 8 May 2022 (UTC)
Mobile supports.. nothing?
I try to ensure my scripts work on the mobile domains. Not always easy. I don't actually use the mobile domains outside of these tests. As I typically load my scripts locally I never bothered to look at preferences, common.js or whatever for this. But now I wanted to test loading a script on-wiki, and.. What.. the.. fuck..? There is no link to Special:Preferences anywhere on the mobile domain! The only "settings" link there is points to Special:MobileOptions which is utterly utterly worthless. Entering Special:Preferences by hand works (that's a step up from Special:Diff which just redirects to the worthless Special:MobileDiff), but it's clearly not intended to be used as there's a horizontal scrollbar in the tabs. Not to be defeated that easily, I made a URL using withJS. Surprise: it doesn't work! But on the desktop domain with Minerva it's fine. I must be missing something. Mobile can't be this worthless.. can it? No gadgets on mobile, no Special:Diff, no Special:Preferences, I'm surely mistaken. We wouldn't direct mobile devices to such unfinished garbage by default, that wouldn't make any sense. Tell me I'm mistaken. Tell me I completely overlooked the actual mobile preferences. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 18:06, 7 May 2022 (UTC)
- You are not mistaken. You have not completely overlooked the actual mobile preferences. The mobile interface sucks. My understanding is that the developers think the mobile interface should be optimized for readers, not editors. Optimizing for readers leads them to eliminate things they don't think readers will need in favor of a sleeker looking, more aesthetically pleasing interface that allows people to just read the articles. ~ ONUnicorn(Talk|Contribs)problem solving 18:10, 7 May 2022 (UTC)
- @Alexis Jazz: If you try looking at the console, you will see a line that says
Learn more about how we build our mobile site @ Extension:MobileFrontend
. I had a look at it and have learnt that the extensionprovides replacements for special pages that are not mobile friendly: Special:History, Special:Contributions, Special:Watchlist, Special:Preferences, Special:MobileDiff
; also, it is maintained by theReading Web Team
. NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh 18:18, 7 May 2022 (UTC)- This is why I have always been using User:Þjarkur/NeverUseMobileVersion.js. NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh 18:22, 7 May 2022 (UTC)
- I warmly recommend that script, it has significantly improved my experience of using Wikipedia on my phone. —Kusma (talk) 20:06, 7 May 2022 (UTC)
- Donald Trung, something for you? — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 10:31, 8 May 2022 (UTC)
- I warmly recommend that script, it has significantly improved my experience of using Wikipedia on my phone. —Kusma (talk) 20:06, 7 May 2022 (UTC)
- This is why I have always been using User:Þjarkur/NeverUseMobileVersion.js. NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh 18:22, 7 May 2022 (UTC)
- Mobile support - a mostly OK reading experience these days - if you want to do any serious editing well you've seen the results. — xaosflux Talk 18:33, 7 May 2022 (UTC)
- Xaosflux, ONUnicorn, being optimized for reading isn't entirely unfair, but many options for readers are also missing. Change my password? I don't see it. Maybe I was never supposed to log in anyway. Change the interface language? Nein. Change my notification settings? Forget it. Enable gadgets that aid reading like Wikipedia:Dark mode (gadget)? Mobile remains in the dark. Change search settings? Keep looking. Change banner types to display? Okay, no need for that because banners don't seem to work. (hmm.. do fundraising banners not show on mobile?) Okay, here's another question: is it possible to switch skin based on device/session so I could use different skins on my phone and my laptop on the same domain and without changing my preferences? — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 19:15, 7 May 2022 (UTC)
- No idea. But Monobook in "responsive mode" is almost like having two different skins, one for small screens (my phone) and one for large screens (my laptop). Small-screen monobook can't deal with high indent levels, so I sometimes switch to large-screen by rotating my phone. Can the logic of the "responsive mode" be used to choose between two completely different skins? —Kusma (talk) 20:05, 7 May 2022 (UTC)
- Timeless is another option, works well both on mobile on desktop for me. Galobtter (pingó mió) 21:54, 7 May 2022 (UTC)
- Oh, so Minerva would be completely unnecessary if Vector '10 never happened. Why does it always seem to work out this way? casualdejekyll 19:29, 8 May 2022 (UTC)
- The web browsing technologies to support Timeless's different appearance at different resolution were not supported by all the major browsers until IE9 released in 2011 and certainly not widely supported for some time even after in the various installations of everything out in the world in the early 2010s. In fact, just weeks ago, that browser version was finally removed from the basic support column for MediaWiki.
- You'll note also that the rise of mobile computing is actually fairly recent; even in July 2015 it accounted for only about a third of all requests, with of course the related prioritization. Now it accounts for almost two thirds.
- Vector 2022 is moving the direction of multiple resolution support, so at some point that may be the primary skin displayed on both desktop and mobile websites. Izno (talk) 19:45, 8 May 2022 (UTC)
- Oh, so Minerva would be completely unnecessary if Vector '10 never happened. Why does it always seem to work out this way? casualdejekyll 19:29, 8 May 2022 (UTC)
- Xaosflux, ONUnicorn, being optimized for reading isn't entirely unfair, but many options for readers are also missing. Change my password? I don't see it. Maybe I was never supposed to log in anyway. Change the interface language? Nein. Change my notification settings? Forget it. Enable gadgets that aid reading like Wikipedia:Dark mode (gadget)? Mobile remains in the dark. Change search settings? Keep looking. Change banner types to display? Okay, no need for that because banners don't seem to work. (hmm.. do fundraising banners not show on mobile?) Okay, here's another question: is it possible to switch skin based on device/session so I could use different skins on my phone and my laptop on the same domain and without changing my preferences? — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 19:15, 7 May 2022 (UTC)
- I just found out that while there's no Special:Preferences link on the mobile domain, if I enable Dark Mode it also becomes available on the mobile domain. So it seems gadgets can work after all, but not temporarily using withJS and to actually enable them you'll need to manually navigate to Special:Preferences or access it on the desktop domain. I created T307851 as a result of this topic. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 09:27, 8 May 2022 (UTC)
- withJS is defined in MediaWiki:Common.js, which is not loaded in mobile, because it’s likely to contain things not compatible with mobile. Either it needs to be copied to MediaWiki:Mobile.js (which is loaded only on mobile), or uses need to be migrated to the shiny new withgadget, which is defined in the Gadgets extension, and works on mobile as well. —Tacsipacsi (talk) 14:32, 9 May 2022 (UTC)
- Most of our site didn't work on mobile at all ten years ago, so to be honest it's remarkable we have such a good reading experience there. Much of the work in Minerva, templates and then Timeless brought us to the place we are now. I have a lot of admiration for all the staff and volunteers that have got us to where we are today.
- It's still a work in progress but if you go to the mobile settings page while logged in and chose advanced mode you will get almost feature parity with desktop (just a few new workflows to learn). The eventual goal I would imagine is to get advanced mode as the default and a lot of the work in mw:Desktop improvements has pushed us closer to that. WMF is investing more time in the advanced mode (and logged in experience) to push in the other direction and I am sure they would appreciate your feedback at mw:Moderator Tools/Content moderation on mobile web about where to focus. In fact they were only just recently looking into Special:Preferences (which is not shown btw as most of the preferences are desktop only and the page itself with all its tabs barely fits on a mobile screem.
- In terms of gadgets if one is not working that is likely because it was built ten years ago using now deprecated code (importScript for example is deprecated but used all over the place) or the gadget developer intentionally disabled it on mobile.
- I kindly suggest you take a little time to learn more about the mobile interface before making misinformed claims that it doesn't support anything. Am happy to help enlighten you in anyway I can if you have any concrete examples. Jdlrobson (talk) 17:04, 8 May 2022 (UTC)
- I have to wonder why you're writing here as if you're not a major part of the "they" you refer to. A lot of the mobile stuff is your own work; by number of commits you're by far the most prolific non-bot contributor to the MinervaNeue and Vector skins and the MobileFrontend extension. Do you really need to "imagine" the WMF's eventual goals in the area? Given your experience and tenure at WMF on the teams working in this area I'd think you'd be directly involved in setting them. Anomie⚔ 18:44, 8 May 2022 (UTC)
- Jdlrobson, I stand by what I said.
I kindly suggest you take a little time to learn more about the mobile interface before making misinformed claims
Hey, I took my time, ten times more than you can expect from your average user! You can't enable a gadget from within the mobile interface. When using the mobile interface there's no reason to think gadgets could work - or even know about their existence - at all. I found out by accident that if enabled somehow, they do load, but enabling them to begin with is another matter.chose advanced mode you will get almost feature parity with desktop
Wow, did you seriously just say that? Almost feature parity? That's a low bar, and in what universe does it come even close to that? Good job on closing phab:T307851 because it's too hard for you and phab:T306737 because.. well fuck if I know. I've reopened them for you. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 09:06, 10 May 2022 (UTC)
- Despite having edited Wikipedia for years I was also surprised to learn just how many fundamental workflows were missing or hidden on mobile web, and like you Preferences stood out as a glaring omission that should be accessible to everyone. My team is spending at least the next few months working on improvements to the mobile web interface with a focus on tools for experienced editors. We're currently working on some low-hanging fruit relating to mobile web's overflow menu (namely, adding a user Block button and considering making the menu available without turning on Advanced Mobile Contributions) while we explore potential UX changes for making Preferences available on mobile. I've just written a project page for the preferences work at Moderator Tools/Content moderation on mobile web/Preferences where I'd love to get input from folks who are interested in this. We want to spend a little time seeing what we can do to make Preferences less confusing and more mobile-friendly before adding a link to it. Samwalton9 (WMF) (talk) 08:56, 10 May 2022 (UTC)
- Samwalton9, I strongly suggest you forget about the mobile interface in its current form, that's a waste of time. Don't try to serve readers and editors the exact same way: readers get annoyed by useless elements and editors get annoyed by missing essential elements. See phab:T307851#7911945. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 09:11, 10 May 2022 (UTC)
- @Alexis Jazz: There are already differences in the mobile interface for logged-out and logged-in users, and our changes are, I think, only going to be for the interface displayed to logged-in users. If I understand your request, your issue is that Extension:MobileFrontend makes changes which you largely dislike, and therefore you'd prefer to use the MinervaNeue skin directly, without those changes. Is that right? If so could you elaborate on which elements of that extension you think need changes (or, rather, shouldn't be implemented)? Samwalton9 (WMF) (talk) 11:38, 10 May 2022 (UTC)
- Samwalton9, I think MobileFrontend in its current form is, essentially, wishy-washy. It aims to please readers but also just had to include editing functionality. There are various good arguments for various possibilities and design choices, but delivering half an editing environment (consider WP:THEYCANTHEARYOU for example) isn't something to strive for. Special:MobileDiff for example is just useless. If you are interested in editing or, say, you at least know what a revision even is, you want the proper diff interface. If you're not interested, you don't need MobileDiff either. MobileFrontend just delivers a crippled editing experience. I'm not saying everyone has to use Vector and I would see tremendous value in a superclean reading mode as well as a fully featured Minerva. There is the argument of not wanting to scare off newcomers by revealing a million buttons when they decide to try editing. But that's still no excuse to deliver half an editing environment. I'll be thinking about how the presentation could be improved. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 12:36, 10 May 2022 (UTC)
- @Alexis Jazz: There are already differences in the mobile interface for logged-out and logged-in users, and our changes are, I think, only going to be for the interface displayed to logged-in users. If I understand your request, your issue is that Extension:MobileFrontend makes changes which you largely dislike, and therefore you'd prefer to use the MinervaNeue skin directly, without those changes. Is that right? If so could you elaborate on which elements of that extension you think need changes (or, rather, shouldn't be implemented)? Samwalton9 (WMF) (talk) 11:38, 10 May 2022 (UTC)
- Samwalton9, I strongly suggest you forget about the mobile interface in its current form, that's a waste of time. Don't try to serve readers and editors the exact same way: readers get annoyed by useless elements and editors get annoyed by missing essential elements. See phab:T307851#7911945. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 09:11, 10 May 2022 (UTC)
160s
Hello, all. I ran across an odd issue on this article. Attempting to edit the section "Births" or "Deaths" section redirects me to editing Module:For nowiki (technically, I'm trying to edit it but it's protected). Can anyone else reproduce this issue? If so, I'm curious if this feels like a MW bug or a module issue. I'm not very familiar with the module system in general so I hesitate to report it to Phab if it's a local issue. ~ Matthewrb Talk to me · Changes I've made 07:16, 8 May 2022 (UTC)
- @Matthewrb: Those two sections are transcluded from other pages, per the hatnotes at their tops. The
{{Births and deaths by year for decade|16}}
template performs the transclusion and generates those two headings. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 07:48, 8 May 2022 (UTC) - The headings should definitely be fixed. {{Events by year for decade}} manages to create edit links for the specific sections, and avoid the edit link for its heading, so probably something similar needs to be done for {{Births and deaths by year for decade}} Galobtter (pingó mió) 07:51, 8 May 2022 (UTC)
- Thank you both. It looks like {{Events by year for decade}} is a module, while {{Births and deaths by year for decade}} uses template markup. Wonder if that's related? Like I said, I don't understand modules very well... ~ Matthewrb Talk to me · Changes I've made 16:19, 8 May 2022 (UTC)
Italic titles
{{Infobox album}} is forcing an italic title at Poison box sets which I can't turn off by applying | italic_title = no
or with {{DISPLAYTITLE}}. Can someone help me out please? Shhhnotsoloud (talk) 08:49, 8 May 2022 (UTC)
- @Shhhnotsoloud: The cause is {{Italic title}}; I have removed it. NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh 09:11, 8 May 2022 (UTC)
- @NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh: I couldn't see the wood for the trees. Thank you! Shhhnotsoloud (talk) 09:36, 8 May 2022 (UTC)
About previously deleted versions of an article
If I look at for example Günter Bechly, I see a kind of deletion-log, info about old deleted versions.
However, can I, a non-admin, see this info for an article currently in main-space? For example, I recreated Christoph Steidl Porenta, which had been deleted (for good reason, WP:G11) a couple of times, but afaict, these deletions can't be seen at Revision history, Page statistics or Page information. I think it was briefly visible when I started the draft or when I moved the draft to mainspace, though.
I'm not after a WP:REFUND, I'm just curious about seeing the "facts" like at the Bechly link. Can I, somewhere, or are they admin-only? Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 09:55, 8 May 2022 (UTC)
- @Gråbergs Gråa Sång: Yes; see page logs. Note that the logs were recorded at Draft:Christoph Steidl Porenta, not Christoph Steidl Porenta. NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh 10:08, 8 May 2022 (UTC)
- Ah, tricky. Thanks! Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 10:43, 8 May 2022 (UTC)
Edge and RefToolBar - Compatibility issues?
Hi all. I've tried to raise this at the RefToolbar talk page, but to no avail. I keep gettin blank parameters when using Microsoft Edge. Is there any fix/solution for this? Maybe it's the script I'm using or something else?
Thanks,--Tærkast (Discuss) 16:14, 8 May 2022 (UTC)
- It might be one of your scripts, I am guessing reflinks? conflicting with it. Running RefToolbar only on Win10, Edge 101 works for me. Using versions of Edge lower than 79 would also cause the issue. On an unrelated note, some of your common.js is outdated, dispenser tools are dead and User:Ohconfucius/script/Sources.js spits out dozens of errors.--Snævar (talk) 05:43, 10 May 2022 (UTC)
Broken move request involving draft
I definitely am doing something wrong here. I want to request a move from a draft article, to its former article status, but my move request in the Wikipedia:Requested moves/Technical requests definitely broke something. Where is the proper avenue/way to request this move? ~ 🦝 Shushugah (he/him • talk) 18:14, 8 May 2022 (UTC)
- I fixed it. The issue was with the space character. -Kj cheetham (talk) 18:15, 8 May 2022 (UTC)
? in URL
An interesting observation was made about an external MediaWiki-based wiki in relation to a wrong URL, and it can happen here, too. If a title containing a question mark is pasted into a page URL, it and anything at follows will be dropped, but it will still appear in the website if the visited page is not a redirect.
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page (goes to the redirect Index.php → Web server directory index)
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arsenic?title=Main_Page (goes to the article Arsenic)
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/?_(film) (goes to Main Page)
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%3F_(film) (goes to ? (film))
–LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 04:02, 9 May 2022 (UTC)
- That is the intended behaviour. Our
wgArticlePath
is/wiki/$1
and that overrides the value oftitle
parameter, if any. In your third example, the?
mark is treated as the start of URL query string, and since_(film)
is not followed by any value (and is not supported by MediaWiki itself), the rest gets ignored. Meanwhile, that of the fourth is encoded and hence not a part of query string (i.e. a?
mark literally/as-is). NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh 04:36, 9 May 2022 (UTC)
Switch
Remember back in 2015, when we were younger and wilder? Anyway, back in 2015, {{Incorrect redirect template}} was upgraded to Lua with this edit. Now before that the template worked with switches, and those switches had a maximum capacity of one hundred parameters. When more than a hundred params were needed, we just embedded more switches. Worked fine.
Now, when we look at a template like {{College}}, we see one switch and several hundred params, and all the entries appear to work just fine. So my question is, what is the new maximum-parameter limitation (if any) for a switch? P.I. Ellsworth - ed. put'r there 13:55, 9 May 2022 (UTC)
- @Paine Ellsworth I don't know if there is a limit, but according to Help:Switch parser function switch statements with 1,000 to 2,000 branches do work, though performance becomes a concern at those sizes. 163.1.15.238 (talk) 14:59, 9 May 2022 (UTC)
- At present, the College template has more than 2,800 parameters/branches, and it seems to be working okay. The comparisons probably don't take nearly as long as in the past. I think that if no one else chimes in with helpful info, I'll nest a few more switches to help speed things up. Thank you, 163+ for your help on this! P.I. Ellsworth - ed. put'r there 15:19, 9 May 2022 (UTC)
- @Paine Ellsworth I think I've found the limit.
- Reading through the documentation on mediawiki there is no hard coded "maximum number of cases" limit in parser functions itself, so the standard template limits apply. I think the two most limits relevant limits here are the Preprocessor node count and the maximum expansion depth. As with all templates you can nest switch statments up to 40 layers deep. Each condion checked also adds two to the Preprocessor node count, which has a maximum value of 1,000,000. This means that a page which has nothing else on it could theoretically have up to 500,000 cases. 163.1.15.238 (talk) 15:37, 9 May 2022 (UTC)
- At present, the College template has more than 2,800 parameters/branches, and it seems to be working okay. The comparisons probably don't take nearly as long as in the past. I think that if no one else chimes in with helpful info, I'll nest a few more switches to help speed things up. Thank you, 163+ for your help on this! P.I. Ellsworth - ed. put'r there 15:19, 9 May 2022 (UTC)
Tech News: 2022-19
15:20, 9 May 2022 (UTC)
Template query, add to category based on blank parameters
Hey, is it possible for a template to add pages to a category if it creates a table that only has one row? The template generates rows based on rotten_tomatoesN and metacritcN, so maybe something like if both of those with 2 in place of N is blank, then add to category or error, but not sure if possible to implement. Posted on talk page of the template three weeks ago (Template_talk:Television_critical_response#One_row_category_not_working) and no response so hope you can help please? Thanks, Indagate (talk) 18:02, 9 May 2022 (UTC)
- I think the problem is at Module:Television_critical_response#L-233 where it checks whether #SeasonEntries is 1. This would work well if table SeasonEntries were a sequence with numeric keys 1, 2... However, it has string keys "1", "2"..., so the # operator spots that there is no numeric key 1 and returns 0. Certes (talk) 18:37, 9 May 2022 (UTC)
- @Certes Ah ok, thanks for responding, would it work if replace L-233 with "if not rotten_tomatoes2 or metacritic2 or cinemascore2 then"? Instead of saying if seasonentries = 1, we're saying if content is not added for a row, then add to category. Or is it possible to change the string keys to numeric keys? Indagate (talk) 19:50, 9 May 2022 (UTC)
- That should work, or you could try copying from Module:Television critical response/sandbox which I just created. Someone who knows the application area better than me should test it first! Certes (talk) 19:59, 9 May 2022 (UTC)
- I think we need the sandbox version because we can legitimately have series "numbers" such as "3S" for special episodes (e.g. Sherlock). I've assumed that we want to detect single rows, not rows with a maximum series number of 1 (which might be 1 + 1S or similar). Certes (talk) 20:18, 9 May 2022 (UTC)
- Thanks, created Template:Television critical response/sandbox and tested in preview mode for a few articles and doesn't break anything Indagate (talk) 20:30, 9 May 2022 (UTC)
- @Certes Ah ok, thanks for responding, would it work if replace L-233 with "if not rotten_tomatoes2 or metacritic2 or cinemascore2 then"? Instead of saying if seasonentries = 1, we're saying if content is not added for a row, then add to category. Or is it possible to change the string keys to numeric keys? Indagate (talk) 19:50, 9 May 2022 (UTC)
Automatic emotion
In this edit, after clicking "save", they appeared two cows instead of <ref name=":03" />
I suppose it is the effect of an automatic substitution of text in emoticons. Could you check if it is just my problem or is related to some Mediawiki software bug? Thanks. --Ensahequ (talk) 19:19, 9 May 2022 (UTC)
- I just did a null edit and nothing changed. (The symbols seem to be ☃ snowmen for me.) I see that your edit also replaces double spaces by single spaces: perhaps you have something locally which enforces that preference and also generates unwanted emojis. Certes (talk) 19:46, 9 May 2022 (UTC)
- IIRC this is a VisualEditor bug: WP:☃. NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh 22:21, 9 May 2022 (UTC)
- See also this VPT thread from 2019 and T262515. Preferences has an option to "Temporarily disable the visual editor while it is in beta", which I recommend for most editing until a pile of long-standing bugs are fixed. – Jonesey95 (talk) 03:37, 10 May 2022 (UTC)
Global vs local script mgt
How are people here managing their global and local scripts (other than manually)? Has anyone crafted a global script installer yet? Enterprisey said he's not planning on expanding his script installer to global.js. Can common.js be transcluded to global.js (and common.js somehow disabled), so that the enwiki script installers be used to install to global indirectly? (clunky, I know, but that's all I could think of.)
Cheers. — Guarapiranga ☎ 02:26, 10 May 2022 (UTC)
- Script-installer is quite short. I think I can try tweaking it, but am unsure if both common.js and global.js can/should be supported.
#firstHeading
already looks busy with the two, let alone a third. NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh 10:50, 10 May 2022 (UTC)
Can we automate the url-access parameter?
Web references on Wikipedia come optionally with a url-access parameter that warns the user of potential registeration/paywall to see the content. These days a lot of content online is behind such measures. Most references sadly do not contain this useful data. Could we somehow automate it? Maybe with Wikidata? Or just add it to refs with bot runs? How would you do it? --Palosirkka (talk) 12:26, 10 May 2022 (UTC)
- I don't think this is actionable. Araik there are no hooks for code that would do what you suggest, and any such routine would be highly speculative and prone to false positives (and negatives). Also keep in mind that access status may not always be the same. 74.64.150.19 (talk) 12:47, 10 May 2022 (UTC)