I notice this category was renamed from "Transsexuals" to "Transsexual men and women". However, I think a better name would be "Transsexual people" - for example, Kate Bornstein doesn't fit into a "men and women"-type category, but is definitely transsexual.
Given the subject matter, isn't limiting this category to the gender binary unnecessarily exclusive, and possibly offensive to some people? --David Edgar 10:20, 1 Jul 2004 (UTC)
: That usage is fine too. I don't quite understand what you mean by Kate Bornstein, but I think things that fit into non-strict gender roles falls into transgender some too? Maybe "transgender and transsexual people"? Dysprosia 10:26, 1 Jul 2004 (UTC)
::I just gave Kate Bornstein as an example of someone who doesn't fit the man/woman categories. (S/he defines herself as a 'gender outlaw' - neither man nor woman. Having had sex reassignment surgery, she's undoubtedly transsexual, however.)
::Yes, "transgender and transsexual people" would be fine, but then why not just "transgender people" (or "transgendered people") (i.e. the category equivalent to the List_of_transgendered_people) since this is generally used as a catch-all term.
::Perhaps there could be a subcategory for transsexual people if this is useful.
::--David Edgar 11:34, 1 Jul 2004 (UTC)
It is very difficult to classify people as ''either'' transsexual ''or'' transgendered, especially, since formally, transsexual is a sub-category of transgender; although some transsexual people don't like "transgender". In all other articles, we solved this problem by writing "Transgender and transsexual". One can only classify people as "transsexual" if they classified themselves as transsexual and did so when the alternative transgender would have been available. Kate Bronstein is definitely wrongly classified under transsexual. I'd prefer if this category would be renamed as "Transgender people" but "Transgender and transsexual people" would be OK, too. I'll remove Kate Bornstein until this is resolved - because many transgender people are rather offended when classified as transsexual; and it is wrong, anyway. -- AlexR 14:34, 1 Jul 2004 (UTC)
No other problems with "Transgender and transsexual people"? I'll do the move if there's no other objections Dysprosia 05:29, 2 Jul 2004 (UTC)
:Like AlexR, I too prefer "Transgender people". --David Edgar 08:26, 2 Jul 2004 (UTC)
::Transgender and transsexual people makes sense, due to the obvious example of Kate Bornstein (and she isn't the only one). However, for the same reason that we're changing this from just mentioning transsexual to mentioning both, I strongly object to using just transgender people. We've had this argument before. There is a fair portion of transpeople who don't exactly like the transgender label. Ambivalenthysteria 09:46, 2 Jul 2004 (UTC)
:::Point taken. Go with mentioning both. --David Edgar 13:36, 2 Jul 2004 (UTC)
Now done - moved to Category:Transgender_and_transsexual_people. And Kate Bornstein added again. --David Edgar 15:29, 15 Jul 2004 (UTC)
: Thanks! Dysprosia 02:10, 16 Jul 2004 (UTC)