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"80% of new Chinese IUD placements" is misleading
Please change "Zenz reported that 80% of new Chinese IUD placements (insertions minus removals) in 2018 occurred in Xinjiang, despite the region constituting only 1.8% of the country's population." to "According to Zenz's report, Xinjiang accounted for 8.7% of IUD implants but has only 1.8% of the country's population." The rationale for the change has been laid out in the following discussion. Thank you very much. Cycw (talk) 16:31, 20 June 2022 (UTC)
"Zenz reported that 80% of new Chinese IUD placements (insertions minus removals) in 2018 occurred in Xinjiang, despite the region constituting only 1.8% of the country's population."
I question whether this statistic should be cited, because it's just a bad statistic.
The issue is Zenz calculates "newly added IUDs as insertions minus removals." [1] This leads to all sorts of nonsensical figures, because some counties will have net negative (more removed) and some counties will have net positive (more added). As an example, let's say I have three counties A, B, and C.
A - 1 IUD added
B - 1 IUD removed
C - 1 IUD added
I have a total of 1 IUD added across my country, and both counties A and B have "100% of newly added IUDs" which is pretty silly.
Looking at the statistics Zenz cites confirms that this is what's happening. [2] On page 228 of the document (page 242 in the PDF) we see the table Zenz uses to arrive at his figure. Column 2 (放置节育器例数) is implanted IUDs and column 4 (取出节育器例数) is removed IUDs. The first row has the totals, while the last row on the page has figures for Xinjiang. From this we see that in 2018 Xinjiang had 328475 IUDs implanted and only 89018 removed, for a "newly added" total of 239457, while nationally there were 3774318 IUDs implanted and 3473367 removed for a "newly added" total of 300951 so Xinjiang is indeed 80% of the "newly added" total.
To reinforce my point, it's worth noting that for example Hebei (4th row) accounts for 60% of the "newly added" total and suddenly we total to 140% because there are counties that have negative percentage contributions to the "newly added" total (are percentages even valid to use at this point?).
So I would recommend removing this figure since it's just... silly? And there's plenty of other less misleading ways to note that there's a disproportionate amount of IUDs being inserted in Xinjiang (e.g. the region accounted for 8.7% of IUD implants and only 1.8% of the population). Above post left unsigned by Pasta Enjoyer
Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 8 June 2022
Change "the Oxus Society for Central Asian Affairs found 1,546 of cases Uyghurs being detained and deported" to "the Oxus Society for Central Asian Affairs found 1,546 cases of Uyghurs being detained and deported." Citizen127 (talk) 11:08, 8 June 2022 (UTC)
Done ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 11:12, 8 June 2022 (UTC)
Updating "Reactions at the United Nations" following Bachelet's visit
An update is necessary to the "Reactions at the United Nations" subsection following the visit by UN High Commissioner for Human Rights Michelle Bachelet. The possible visit referred to here -- " In January 2022, unidentified sources told the South China Morning Post that UN rights chief Michelle Bachelet had secured a visit to Xinjiang, not to be framed as an investigation, some time during the first half of the year, as long as her office doesn't agree to the U.S. request of publishing its Xinjiang report ahead of the Beijing Winter Olympics.[336]" has now occurred. UN Human Rights Commission Statement following Bachelet visit to Xinjiang. The statement was measured, noting "questions and concerns about the application of counterterrorism and de-radicalisation measures and their broad application," while also praising China's "'tremendous achievements' in alleviating poverty, and eradicating extreme poverty, 10 years ahead of its target date."
I don't have enough edits under my belt to make the change myself. But someone should bring the entry full circle on this point now that the visit occurred. — Preceding unsigned comment added by JArthur1984 (talk • contribs) 20:08, 14 June 2022 (UTC)
Authenticity of Policeman Testimony
I would like to suggest a review of the authenticity of the policeman testimony as written in the Torture subsection of the Inside interment camps subsection within the Human Rights Abuses section. Internet sources included below, albeit potentially biased, have given credible suspicion that the supposed policeman is actually not who he claims to be. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gW4mScFurc4 https://twitter.com/thomerz24/status/1445734789575688193 Cycw (talk) 05:41, 19 June 2022 (UTC)
- A random YouTube video and a random tweet are not reliable sources (see WP:RSPYT and WP:TWITTER). If you have reliable sources that dispute CNN's reporting that the individual is a former policeman, then feel free to present them, but I really see no reason that the tweet and YouTube video would move the needle on this whatsoever. — Ⓜ️hawk10 (talk) 06:01, 19 June 2022 (UTC)
- Thank you for the reply. I fully understand the policy that the sources that I presented may not be viewed as reliable; therefore I will try to present the points of suspicion myself. However, compiling the original sources may take significant time and effort, so please understand my potential slowness to reply. Thank you! Cycw (talk) 16:33, 19 June 2022 (UTC)
- RS is only an issue for adding content, not for removing it. A more important consideration is however weight. Jiang's interview on CNN has only been repeated in the New York Post and Sky News Australia, Jutarnji list, Central News Agency (Taiwan) and a few obscure publications.
- The interview is I agree questionable. I do not think that Jiang's disguise - a covid mask and sunglasses, while wearing his uniform - would be effective. I do not believe that Chinese police lack facial recognition technology or other advanced police techniques. That's probably why no other major news network commented on it.
- TFD (talk) 20:19, 19 June 2022 (UTC)
- That the interview's been covered by major publications in multiple countries (Australia, Taiwan, Croatia) seems to contribute positively to its credibility and the extent to which it is WP:DUE. I would also not refer to The Times (of London) and The Telegraph as
obscure publications
, and I imagine that most editors here would reject that characterization as well. — Ⓜ️hawk10 (talk) 20:51, 19 June 2022 (UTC) - How do you know that coverage is restricted to those reliable sources? Do you genuinely reject the reliability of The Telegraph and the Times of London or where you simply unaware of the coverage? Horse Eye's Back (talk) 22:45, 19 June 2022 (UTC)
- I used Google news search and got 10 hits, which did not include The Times and The Telegraph.[3] Even with those publications however, the coverage seems to fail weight. Mhy general approach with high coverage news stories is that unless they have widespread ongoing coverage among major media, they lack weight for inclusion. Otherwise, how could we decide what among thousands of pieces of information to include? TFD (talk) 23:20, 19 June 2022 (UTC)
- Your general approach appears to be unique. Generally the bar is coverage in two WP:RS with coverage in just one being borderline. What you're describing is much closer to the coverage needed for a stand-alone article (especially the "ongoing coverage" part). Are you perhaps getting confused with the WP:GNG criteria? Horse Eye's Back (talk) 00:10, 20 June 2022 (UTC)
- I raised the issue at NPOVN. I would also mention that the final clause of the sentence in the article ("as he had feared his own arrest had he dissented") appears to be incomplete. Presumably it explains why he went in disguise, but that's not mentioned in the sentence.
- TFD (talk) 00:32, 20 June 2022 (UTC)
- Your general approach appears to be unique. Generally the bar is coverage in two WP:RS with coverage in just one being borderline. What you're describing is much closer to the coverage needed for a stand-alone article (especially the "ongoing coverage" part). Are you perhaps getting confused with the WP:GNG criteria? Horse Eye's Back (talk) 00:10, 20 June 2022 (UTC)
- I used Google news search and got 10 hits, which did not include The Times and The Telegraph.[3] Even with those publications however, the coverage seems to fail weight. Mhy general approach with high coverage news stories is that unless they have widespread ongoing coverage among major media, they lack weight for inclusion. Otherwise, how could we decide what among thousands of pieces of information to include? TFD (talk) 23:20, 19 June 2022 (UTC)
- That the interview's been covered by major publications in multiple countries (Australia, Taiwan, Croatia) seems to contribute positively to its credibility and the extent to which it is WP:DUE. I would also not refer to The Times (of London) and The Telegraph as
Note: I've opened up a discussion on RSN to discuss the reliability of the source, since it has been questioned here and not quickly resolved. — Ⓜ️hawk10 (talk) 01:22, 20 June 2022 (UTC)
Article content does not match content from source
In the Human rights abuses—outside internment camps—Forced labor section, the source attributed to the sentence "After Apple and Samsung condemned the Uyghur genocide, it underwent boycotts in China, causing sales throughout the country to decrease significantly." does not mention Apple and Samsung at all. Instead, the source mentions Nike and Adidas, whose statements themselves did not mention the word "genocide". Please review this sentence in the article and I would appreciate any appropriate edits. Thank you very much. Cycw (talk) 19:01, 23 June 2022 (UTC)
European Parliament
The European Parliament has passed a non-binding measure recognizing "crimes against humanity" and "a serious risk of genocide" against Uyghurs in Xinjiang. This has been reported by Nikkei Asia, Radio Free Asia, Agence France-Presse (via Barron's), and others. I would have added this to the article, but I am unable to add it as this article is extended-protected. Would it be possible for someone to add it? Dankmemes2 (talk) 01:47, 24 June 2022 (UTC)