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Amwell
Thankyou for you're work on Great Amwell and Little Amwell, as you can see I noted there should probably be a split but the only difference it that Amwell, Hertfordshire now goes to Amwell#England rather than Great Amwell due to the fact that there is also a hamlet in St Albans district. I have fixed most links to point to one of the specific places but there are 4 links that I can't determine, I have also nominated Category:People from Amwell, Hertfordshire for deletion. Also since you have been working on other Hertfordshire parishes do you have any knowledge about Brickendon Liberty? That title redirects to Brickendon but perhaps should have a separate article however the name may indicate its an alternative name for the village meaning no separate article may be needed. Consider for example Little Amwell was also a liberty. Crouch, Swale (talk) 18:41, 15 December 2021 (UTC)
Thanks for sorting out those Amwell links - I managed to find some extra sources for the last four and have disambiguated them too. On Brickendon, I think that plain "Brickendon" is the common name of the village itself, and used to be the name of the parish / parish liberty too - looks like the "Liberty" was only added to the name of the parish in 1929. I'm undecided on how this parish's pages / redirects should be structured so as to be consistent. Stortford (talk) 22:11, 15 December 2021 (UTC)
- It looks perhaps like there was a Rural and Urban parish[1] split from the original "Brickendon" parish in 1894. No information is give on the Urban one but there is on the Rural one namely that it was created from part of Brickendon in 1894 and then was abolished in 1929 to create the current Liberty parish. Its not clear if it needs a separate article but the only other missing current parish in Hertfordshire is Nettleden with Potten End. Crouch, Swale (talk) 20:06, 16 December 2021 (UTC)
- Yes, Brickendon was split in December 1894 - Brickendon Urban was like many such "urban" parishes created that year - it was the bit of the former Brickendon parish which overlapped the borough of Hertford, so it was always governed by the borough corporation rather than having its own parish council. The urban parishes within Hertford borough were all merged in September 1900 to become a single parish called Hertford which was coterminous with the borough, so Brickendon Urban only existed for less than six years and was never self-governing. In 1929 Brickendon Liberty was created as a merger of Brickendon Rural with St John Rural (itself created in 1894 as the bit of the old parish of Hertford St John outside the borough). My feeling is that with some extra sources this is probably all best explained on the Brickendon page as the common name for the village and leave the Brickendon Liberty page as a redirect to it. This would be analogous to Letchworth, where the page title uses the name which is both the common name and historic name rather than the full formal modern name of Letchworth Garden City, which is a redirect. I'll try and put some words together over the next few days. Nettleden with Potten End probably would benefit from a short page about the parish, although linked to the two main settlements the parish is named after - again, I'll see what I can put together. Stortford (talk) 20:35, 16 December 2021 (UTC)
- OK, I see it is covered here regarding Brickendon Urban etc. It was pointed out to me on Commons years ago that most "X Village" and "X Town" parishes should normally redirect to "X" such as Aintree Village>Aintree so that may well also apply to "X Urban" parishes but not "X Rural" parishes for example Ellesmere Urban>Ellesmere, Shropshire but Ellesmere Rural is separate. That suggests Brickendon Urban should probably not be separate however it seems like Brickendon Rural also covered the village perhaps partly due to the boundary changes in 1900? However "Brickendon Liberty" is just a re-merge of the Rural and Urban parishes plus a bit of land rather than something new so yes it may well not need a separate article and as noted the Rural one probably doesn't either.
- Regarding Letchworth, it seems like both "Letchworth" and "Letchworth Garden City" are used for the settlement, the former CP was "Letchworth Garden City" and current unparished area is "Letchworth" so those meanings are definitely synonymous, see the discussions at Talk:Letchworth. Crouch, Swale (talk) 21:14, 16 December 2021 (UTC)
- I've added content at Brickendon#Civil parish for the parishes. I've also created drafts at Draft:Hoddesdon Rural and Draft:Great Berkhampstead Rural for what look to be now the only 1974 former parishes that are missing. Crouch, Swale (talk) 18:31, 17 December 2021 (UTC)
- Thanks for that - I've made a few tweaks to Brickendon to add a bit more narrative and sourcing. I've also replaced the redirect page at Nettleden with Potten End with a short page about the civil parish, although left most information about the area on the separate Nettleden and Potten End pages about the villages - I see you've already tidied a few points there, thanks. Only point I'd make on your Hoddesdon Rural draft is that it was split from Hoddesdon on 4 December 1894, not 1 April - this was one of those changes which occurred on "the appointed day" for the purposes of the Local Government Act 1894, which was defined differently for different purposes. Splitting of parishes took effect on 4 December 1894, which was the day mandated for the first parish meetings. Stortford (talk) 07:16, 18 December 2021 (UTC)
- My mistake about December rather than April but VOA says 31 not 4 December. Crouch, Swale (talk) 17:21, 18 December 2021 (UTC)
- Yes - Vision of Britain does say 31 December. The transition under the Local Government Act 1894 was not particularly neat - the Act itself only referred to "the appointed day", and it was left to subsequent orders of the Local Government Board to specify what that day was. In the end orders were issued specifying different appointed days for different purposes - the splitting of parishes took effect on 4 December, which was the day for the first parish meetings, parish councils came into their powers on either 13 December if no election was needed or 31 December if an election was needed, rural sanitary districts became rural districts on 28 December, and urban sanitary districts became urban districts on 31 December. I believe Vision of Britain presents all these changes as having taken effect on the last of those dates for simplicity. However, if you'd rather not go into the complexity of all that (especially given the stance Vision of Britain has taken on the point), perhaps just put the date of change as December 1894. Stortford (talk) 19:55, 18 December 2021 (UTC)
- My mistake about December rather than April but VOA says 31 not 4 December. Crouch, Swale (talk) 17:21, 18 December 2021 (UTC)
- Thanks for that - I've made a few tweaks to Brickendon to add a bit more narrative and sourcing. I've also replaced the redirect page at Nettleden with Potten End with a short page about the civil parish, although left most information about the area on the separate Nettleden and Potten End pages about the villages - I see you've already tidied a few points there, thanks. Only point I'd make on your Hoddesdon Rural draft is that it was split from Hoddesdon on 4 December 1894, not 1 April - this was one of those changes which occurred on "the appointed day" for the purposes of the Local Government Act 1894, which was defined differently for different purposes. Splitting of parishes took effect on 4 December 1894, which was the day mandated for the first parish meetings. Stortford (talk) 07:16, 18 December 2021 (UTC)
- I've added content at Brickendon#Civil parish for the parishes. I've also created drafts at Draft:Hoddesdon Rural and Draft:Great Berkhampstead Rural for what look to be now the only 1974 former parishes that are missing. Crouch, Swale (talk) 18:31, 17 December 2021 (UTC)
- Yes, Brickendon was split in December 1894 - Brickendon Urban was like many such "urban" parishes created that year - it was the bit of the former Brickendon parish which overlapped the borough of Hertford, so it was always governed by the borough corporation rather than having its own parish council. The urban parishes within Hertford borough were all merged in September 1900 to become a single parish called Hertford which was coterminous with the borough, so Brickendon Urban only existed for less than six years and was never self-governing. In 1929 Brickendon Liberty was created as a merger of Brickendon Rural with St John Rural (itself created in 1894 as the bit of the old parish of Hertford St John outside the borough). My feeling is that with some extra sources this is probably all best explained on the Brickendon page as the common name for the village and leave the Brickendon Liberty page as a redirect to it. This would be analogous to Letchworth, where the page title uses the name which is both the common name and historic name rather than the full formal modern name of Letchworth Garden City, which is a redirect. I'll try and put some words together over the next few days. Nettleden with Potten End probably would benefit from a short page about the parish, although linked to the two main settlements the parish is named after - again, I'll see what I can put together. Stortford (talk) 20:35, 16 December 2021 (UTC)
Your GA nomination of Letchworth
Hi there, I'm pleased to inform you that I've begun reviewing the article Letchworth you nominated for GA-status according to the criteria. This process may take up to 7 days. Feel free to contact me with any questions or comments you might have during this period. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of SounderBruce -- SounderBruce (talk) 07:40, 3 March 2022 (UTC)
Berkhamsted Civic Centre
Hi - Please can you take a look at Berkhamsted Civic Centre? I have included a couple of sources which say the site was previously occupied by William Nash & Son whereas the Berkhamsted article suggests the site was occupied by a former Wesleyan chapel. I am not sure which is right: it might be that both are correct but at different periods of site ownership. Thanks. Dormskirk (talk) 11:43, 25 April 2022 (UTC)
- Hello - looking into it, I've found a couple of newspaper articles concerning the auction on 26 August 1908 at which the council bought the site (then called 135 High Street). These make clear that the former chapel was behind the main house which faced High Street, but that it had ceased to be a chapel and was occupied along with the rest of the premises by "Nash and Son", builders. A couple of extracts below:
- Sales by auction, Bucks Herald (Aylesbury), 22 August 1908, page 4
- "On Wednesday next... The highly valuable freehold property, consisting of the commodious dwelling house, No. 135, High Street, with extensive premises and yard accommodation in the rear, having the great depth of about 545 feet, in the occupation of Messrs. Nash and Son, builders and contractors... for sale by auction..."
- Berkhamsted: Urban Council's Enterprise - An important development, Watford Observer, 29 August 1908, page 7
- "By purchasing for £2,300 the premises in the High Street, occupied for a good many years by Messrs. Nash and Son, builders... the Berkhamsted Urban Council have made a decided forward step... The premises, 135 High Street, have ample accommodation for all the necessities of the Urban Council's work, which can in future be concentrated instead of being spread about... They have stabling in Station Road, the fire steamer is housed at the "Goat," the manual is kept at the Town Hall, the Council and committee meetings are held at the Workhouse Boardroom, the surveyor's office is in the High Street, and their yard is in the Lower King's Road, while stores and other materials have to be deposited in various out-of-the-way parts of the district...
- The premises have a frontage to the High Street, including the gateway, of about 32½ feet... they comprise an area of about three quarters of an acre. Being situated in the very centre of the business part of the town and possessing just such accommodation as the requirements of the Council demands, the premises are splendidly suitable. In addition to the ample accommodation in the house, there is, just at their rear, a large brick and tiled building recently used as a store or workshop, but which in former days was used as a Wesleyan chapel... It is proposed to convert this building into a Council Chamber, for which it is eminently fitted, and for which it will need but little adaptation.
- Facing it on the other side of the yard is a range of two-storied buildings, upwards of 150 feet long and about 20 feet wide, used as store rooms &c. This building will be altered for use as cart sheds, as well as for a fire station...
- Biddings commenced with £1,000... the price was carried to £2,300, at which figure it was knocked down to Mr. North on behalf of the Council."
- Hope that helps. Stortford (talk) 18:40, 25 April 2022 (UTC)
Hertfordshire former parishes
Do you intend to do anything with Draft:Great Berkhampstead Rural and Draft:Hoddesdon Rural? like the some of the other former parishes. Crouch, Swale (talk) 16:43, 28 May 2022 (UTC)
- Hello - thanks for putting those together. I've now had a look at them both and slightly expanded their history to explain why these areas were made parishes in the context of the creation of urban districts and these rural parishes being the bits left over. Otherwise both pages look good to go. Stortford (talk) 19:09, 28 May 2022 (UTC)
I have sent you a note about a page you started
Hello, Stortford
Thank you for creating 2002 Reading Borough Council election.
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