WikiProject Vital Articles | |||||||
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Introduction
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The purpose of this discussion page is to select 1000 topics for which Wikipedia should have high-quality articles. All Wikipedia editors are welcome to participate. Individual topics are proposed for addition or removal, followed by discussion and !voting. Since the list is currently full, it is recommended that a nomination of a new topic be accompanied by a proposal to remove a lower-priority topic already on the list.
All discussions will remain open for a minimum of 15 days.
- After 15 days any proposal may be closed as PASSED if a) at least five !votes have been cast in support, and b) at least two-thirds of the total !votes support the proposal.
- After 30 days any proposal may be closed as FAILED if it has a) earned at least 3 opposes, and b) failed to earn two-thirds support.
- After 30 days any proposal may be closed as NO CONSENSUS if the proposal hasn't received any !votes for 30 or more days regardless of the !vote tally.
- After 60 days any proposal may be closed as NO CONSENSUS if it has a) failed to earn at least 5 support !votes, and b) earned less than two-thirds support.
Nominations should generally be left open beyond the above-listed minimums if they have a reasonable chance of passing. Please be patient with our process. We believe that an informed discussion with more editors is likely to produce an improved and more stable final list. When proposing to add or remove a particular topic from the vital articles list, we strongly recommend that you review and compare the other topics in the same category in order to get a better sense of what is considered vital in that area.
- 15 days ago: 18:03, 4 August 2022 (UTC) ( )
- 30 days ago: 18:03, 20 July 2022 (UTC)
- 60 days ago: 18:03, 20 June 2022 (UTC)
Remove Mansa Musa
Another superfluous addition (my fault, sorry) that we could do without. Mansa Musa is not renowned for anything besides his enormous wealth, and he has no great achievements to his name that put him beside Qin Shi Huang or George Washington. We have four African leaders as it stands, only two of which are actually vital at this level, and along with math history is probably our most bloated section, so someone needs to go if we are to get to 100.
- Support
- as nom Zelkia1101 (talk) 17:43, 16 July 2022 (UTC)
- Support The like of Hanseatic League seems more vital than that in term of businesss and wealth than such (king?). In term of African history, the like of Umayyad Caliphate seems more vital than this. C933103 (talk) 12:20, 21 July 2022 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Oppose I see no pressing need to cut bios further when we are already under the quota as it stands. I don't see anything wrong at all with listing two Ancient Egyptian monarchs and two sub-Saharan African leaders. Cobblet (talk) 00:12, 17 July 2022 (UTC)
- Oppose We are already lacking in African figures and Mansa Musa is one of the most important. -- Maykii (talk) 05:46, 3 August 2022 (UTC)
I vote Oppose and I agree with Cobblet. Mansa fulfills both a niche for both sub-Saharan African leaders and Islamic leaders pretty well. I thought about proposing we switch Saladin for Mansa Musa, but we have Islamic Golden Age and Crusades already, which both cover Saladin, but not the vast wealth of Mansa Musa nor the great scholarship he inspired by founding the University of Sankoré in Timbuktu. Maybe we can replace Ramesses II with Saladin because then Saladin would fulfill a Middle East/Arab/Islam niche, and we already have Hatshepsut, who is cooler than Ramesses, to fulfill the Ancient Egyptian ruler niche. Not only was Hatshepsut one of the four female leaders on the list of 26, but also her tomb, the Mortuary temple of Hatshepsut is one of the most-studied structures in Egyptian archeology. Ramesses was known mostly for his war campaigns and territorial conquests, but he mostly just reconquered lands lost previously, and looking at maps, Egypt's borders under Hatshepsut in the Eighteenth dynasty were roughly the same as in the Nineteenth dynasty under Ramesses. LightProof1995 (talk) 05:01, 2 August 2022 (UTC)
- Discuss
- The question is why? What does cutting the article out of the Vital list helps with improving Vital articles as a whole? Nothing. It doesn't hurt to keep the article in here for now. CactiStaccingCrane (talk) 12:50, 19 July 2022 (UTC)
- The point of paring down the biographies to a nice round number like 100 is to clear room for non-biography articles that are more worthy of addition than many of the biographies on this list. Zelkia1101 (talk) 14:58, 22 July 2022 (UTC)
- So? Why don't suggest these articles here instead? Better yet, why not improving them? CactiStaccingCrane (talk) 01:50, 24 July 2022 (UTC)
- The point of paring down the biographies to a nice round number like 100 is to clear room for non-biography articles that are more worthy of addition than many of the biographies on this list. Zelkia1101 (talk) 14:58, 22 July 2022 (UTC)
- It is sometimes difficult to find perfectly suitable articles to swap. Removals and additions can be less confusing. --Thi (talk) 14:30, 24 July 2022 (UTC)
- Ok, I see your point. :) 1 removal/addition/swap a time should be fine. Just don’t see the point of ”mass-cutting” biographies just for the sake of it. I mean, if somebody gets a brilliant idea for a non-biography addition, then surely room can be found for it? (A gradual ”modification” of the list seems to me much more reasonable than chasing some random ideal of, say, 100 biographies – which could quickly lead to a list far below quota. But yes, I’m not very active here, so just my casual observation as somebody whose OCD is triggered when the total number is not 1000! ;) ) Telepanda (talk) 23:40, 24 July 2022 (UTC)
- It is sometimes difficult to find perfectly suitable articles to swap. Removals and additions can be less confusing. --Thi (talk) 14:30, 24 July 2022 (UTC)
- Generally it serves to clean your house up first before you move in all the new furniture. If you have any suggestions, feel free to make a nomination. Nothing immediately come to mind as a swap, which is why I proposed a cold removal. Zelkia1101 (talk) 14:24, 24 July 2022 (UTC)
- That's not my point. My point is that the Vital article list is utterly useless if we don't improve articles in the list. Swapping/adding/removing articles from the lists don't help with improving our coverage of broad-topic articles in general. We should think more ways to improve Vital articles, not perfecting the Vital article lists. CactiStaccingCrane (talk) 14:33, 24 July 2022 (UTC)
- See also: Wikiproject Vital Articles. CactiStaccingCrane (talk) 14:35, 24 July 2022 (UTC)
- That's not my point. My point is that the Vital article list is utterly useless if we don't improve articles in the list. Swapping/adding/removing articles from the lists don't help with improving our coverage of broad-topic articles in general. We should think more ways to improve Vital articles, not perfecting the Vital article lists. CactiStaccingCrane (talk) 14:33, 24 July 2022 (UTC)
- Generally it serves to clean your house up first before you move in all the new furniture. If you have any suggestions, feel free to make a nomination. Nothing immediately come to mind as a swap, which is why I proposed a cold removal. Zelkia1101 (talk) 14:24, 24 July 2022 (UTC)
- This is something of a late reply (I'm new here), but may I suggest Askia Muhammad I as an alternative to Mansa Musa? The current article on him is rather inadequate, but his reign is known in some detail, and he made the Songhai Empire into one of the most powerful states in African history. The other medieval West African rulers I would consider of comparable importance to Mansa Musa and Askia Muhammad are Sonni Ali and the semi-mythical Sunjata. Ornithopsis (talk) 15:51, 19 August 2022 (UTC)
All Vital GAs by 2032
Right, so I think everyone knows this by now, but if you don't, the WikiProject Vital Articles is now revamped with a goal of, well, 1000 Vital GA/FA by 2032. The reason for that specific goal is to stimulate the editors and to have a real sense of hurry (so no WP:Majestic Titan that lingers on Phase I for 14 years). I have outlined a vague direction about how this could be done, but I think that ultimately the plan should come from the group's consensus. What do you think is the best way to start on achieving the goal? CactiStaccingCrane (talk) 15:34, 2 August 2022 (UTC)
- See also: Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Vital Articles#First GA drive discussion. CactiStaccingCrane (talk) 16:13, 2 August 2022 (UTC)
- First, we should get the list to 1000. LightProof1995 (talk) 15:41, 3 August 2022 (UTC)
- 1. Wikipedia:NODEADLINE. 2. Is this even possible to think all the ten article on level 1 to GA within 1 year time? That would mean 1 GA per month. And with the scope each of those articles are covering it would be quite difficult. 3. Getting GA for the sake of getting article to GA isn't benefitial. C933103 (talk) 20:17, 3 August 2022 (UTC)
- User:C933103, may you elaborate on these points? I do somewhat agree the arguments, at the very least to a certain extent. CactiStaccingCrane (talk) 19:24, 4 August 2022 (UTC)
- Not C933103, but I do agree somewhat on the first point. A year's time for all 10 is absurdly tight. These articles should be thought of as journal articles, which even with collaboration can take upwards of a year or more. And, of course, this deadline could hinder the quality of the articles' outcome which relays a bit back to the third point. I respect the enthusiasm but the turtle approach rather than hare is my advice. DMT Biscuit (talk) 22:05, 4 August 2022 (UTC)
- I do agree with NODEADLINE in that don't just rush for the sake of meeting the deadlines. However, in my opinion some form of a deadline is still necessary. Take a look at a similarly ambitious project: WP:Majestic Titan, which aims to have a ton of articles improved to GA. The only thing lacking is a deadline, and this caused the project to slack and unable to move forward from Phase I for 14 years. Personally, I don't think that 10 years is an absurd goal if you taking account of exponential growth, but even if we just push 5% of Vital articles to GA during that timeframe, that's still a big win for me. As for rubberstamping GA, I think this is a real issue that must be sorted out. Perhaps we have two uninvolved editors instead of one to give comments to a Vital GAN? CactiStaccingCrane (talk) 23:29, 4 August 2022 (UTC)
- Thinking about this a little bit, perhaps it would be better for us to improve our current GAs and FAs to be up to standard, as this requires much less effort compared to improving a Start-class article. See also: Wikipedia_talk:Vital_articles#Reassessment_of_Vital_articles. CactiStaccingCrane (talk) 12:43, 5 August 2022 (UTC)
- I agree with CactiStaccingCrane (talk · contribs). I thought of something similar too. Once we hit 1000, and we are discussing swaps instead of additions, we should consider the rating of the articles were are considering swapping. For example, if a C article is on the list and a Featured article is being recommended, it could make more sense to do the swap, as then it would be less work for us. However, we need to make sure that when this is the case, we are not swapping because we don't want to improve articles -- rather, we are swapping because both articles being considered are well-written for their topics, and the topic we are considering putting on the list is just easier/more interesting to write about than the article being taken off the list. LightProof1995 (talk) 14:31, 5 August 2022 (UTC)
- Thinking about this a little bit, perhaps it would be better for us to improve our current GAs and FAs to be up to standard, as this requires much less effort compared to improving a Start-class article. See also: Wikipedia_talk:Vital_articles#Reassessment_of_Vital_articles. CactiStaccingCrane (talk) 12:43, 5 August 2022 (UTC)
- I do agree with NODEADLINE in that don't just rush for the sake of meeting the deadlines. However, in my opinion some form of a deadline is still necessary. Take a look at a similarly ambitious project: WP:Majestic Titan, which aims to have a ton of articles improved to GA. The only thing lacking is a deadline, and this caused the project to slack and unable to move forward from Phase I for 14 years. Personally, I don't think that 10 years is an absurd goal if you taking account of exponential growth, but even if we just push 5% of Vital articles to GA during that timeframe, that's still a big win for me. As for rubberstamping GA, I think this is a real issue that must be sorted out. Perhaps we have two uninvolved editors instead of one to give comments to a Vital GAN? CactiStaccingCrane (talk) 23:29, 4 August 2022 (UTC)
- Not C933103, but I do agree somewhat on the first point. A year's time for all 10 is absurdly tight. These articles should be thought of as journal articles, which even with collaboration can take upwards of a year or more. And, of course, this deadline could hinder the quality of the articles' outcome which relays a bit back to the third point. I respect the enthusiasm but the turtle approach rather than hare is my advice. DMT Biscuit (talk) 22:05, 4 August 2022 (UTC)
- User:C933103, may you elaborate on these points? I do somewhat agree the arguments, at the very least to a certain extent. CactiStaccingCrane (talk) 19:24, 4 August 2022 (UTC)
- This sounds like a great goal. I have done a few GA reviews for vital articles, and while I won't have time to do any for the rest of the year due to non-Wikipedia obligations, the ones I did in the past seemed so much more meaningful and impactful than just random music albums or condiments (seriously). Hopefully, we can motivate and encourage other experienced GA reviewers to support this. Jclemens (talk) 18:04, 5 August 2022 (UTC)
Changing the voting rule for level 4
Please see the discussion at Wikipedia_talk:Vital_articles/Level/4#Change_the_!voting_rule regarding changing the voting rule on the level 4 talk page. Interstellarity (talk) 17:22, 3 August 2022 (UTC)
Proposal to prohibit mass nominations
Mass nominations by a single user at once, such as by LightProof1995 above, are not helpful or productive, and merely flood up the page with one person's opinion. This often happens when a new user finds the lists and proposes multiple nominations at once to 'fix the list'—when in reality they are merely oblivious of past consensus and most of their suggestions are ignored anyways.
I propose that no user should be allowed to have such mass nominations—this would be broadly constructed, as I think limiting to a specific amount would be unnecessary and too arbitrary. Aza24 (talk) 02:40, 7 August 2022 (UTC)
Support rule change with stated "no more than 3 recommendations at once" lol
Please go through all my suggestions anyway I tried really hard LightProof1995 (talk) 06:28, 7 August 2022 (UTC)
Suggedtion: If "FA review", user can report one time per one week ([1] - No more than one nomination per week by the same nominator.) then I think it is fine for VA to one(the same) user could do just three nominations per week (for example one swap, one removal and one addition) but it would be reffered only to level 1, level 2 and level 3, not level 4 and the level 5. By all that mean, user could do about 12-15 nominations per month, what probably is reasonable given fact how slow process we have and how long we were waiting after "mass nominations" by the same user (inluding mine one time, I admit/remember). Dawid2009 (talk) 11:07, 7 August 2022 (UTC)
- Dawid2009 I think that's a good idea too. CactiStaccingCrane (talk) 12:53, 9 August 2022 (UTC)
As big as possible doesn't equal to good article
I noticed someone added a banner to an activity encouraging editors adding as many bytes as possible to vital articles, with goal of 30KB and award at 50KB. But it should be noted that, article above 50KB is considered WP:TOOBIG and is deemed may need to be divided just because of its length. Note that 50KB is roughly 10000 words and take more than hallf an hour for most people to finish reading. Most people probably wouldn't spend this much time into reading a wikipedia article. Hence if an article is expanded beyond this length, then split should be considered for readability purpose. C933103 (talk) 14:57, 7 August 2022 (UTC)
- C933103 We are using the wikitext size, which is that "(xyz bytes)" that you often see in edit history. The bytes you are referring to is "Readable prose size", which is the amount of displayed text, which you find out by using Xtool. We are quite clear about this:
Our definition of the article size is the number that you see in the edit history, not the readable prose size found in XTool.
In practice most articles are still way too short when expanded to 30 kB, see Arabic numerals and Skeleton for reference. CactiStaccingCrane (talk) 17:17, 7 August 2022 (UTC)
Abolish voting for consensus
I think that this is a long overdue, per Wikipedia is not a democracy. With our current voting procedure, an empty vote would have similar leverage to a well-formed argument, as well as being time-consuming, divisive, and potentially set precedent for bad practices. We should form consensus just as most processes on Wikipedia does – a good old discussion. CactiStaccingCrane (talk) 17:29, 7 August 2022 (UTC)
- The current rule already specified that it is not votes that are counted. Thus in theory empty votes that do not provide any arguments or discussions should be ignored I guess. I guess it can be written more explicitly in the rule? C933103 (talk) 17:41, 7 August 2022 (UTC)
- I agree. At the very least you should write "per nom" to clarify your oppose/support rationale. CactiStaccingCrane (talk) 23:43, 7 August 2022 (UTC)
Support for level 5 only. Oppose the rest Dawid2009 (talk) 17:55, 7 August 2022 (UTC)
- Changes to Level 5 do not usually require discussion unless list is full C933103 (talk) 18:16, 7 August 2022 (UTC)
- Oppose This seems as though it would engender entropy and more hairsplitting - the relative permeance allows for the real intention to arise, in theory, at least. DMT Biscuit (talk) 18:20, 7 August 2022 (UTC)
- Oppose I don't fully understand your dislike of the current rules. You say on the level 4 discussion page that you dislike the focus on the composition of the lists rather than actual improvement of the articles listed. I actually fully agree with you on this. But the point of the current rules is that by enforcing a minimum level of participation in discussions involving the selection of articles, we promote the list's stability, and discourage poorly considered attempts to significantly alter the list. I don't know why you would want to "incentivize making snappy decisions" regarding the selection of articles if you think such discussions are not productive to begin with. Your proposal seems to be self-defeating. Again, I stress that the !voting rules only apply to the selection of articles: "Individual topics are proposed for addition or removal, followed by discussion and !voting." Anything else regarding, say, the improvement of actual articles can be done by standard consensus-based decision-making.
- You do have a point regarding empty !votes – there are people who have a habit of only leaving empty !votes and never actually contributing to discussions. On the other hand, sometimes people leave an empty !vote when they agree with the comment of a previous !voter and have nothing new to add. I try to assume good faith in such cases. Cobblet (talk) 18:59, 7 August 2022 (UTC)
- C933103 I agree with your comment that some level of discussion is needed to be enforced in order to make the list resistant to swooping changes. However, the current rules aren't demanding a strawpoll, as the current rule very specifically said in a) and b) that the X number of supports is needed to be achieved. It doesn't matter how well developed your argument is, your !vote would have a similar power to a person giving empty votes. I think that the Vital article list should adopt a system like WP:AFD where there isn't a hard and fast rule for the outcome of the discussion, while still allow support and oppose !votes followed by a rationale. CactiStaccingCrane (talk) 23:41, 7 August 2022 (UTC)
- Oppose pbp 03:28, 8 August 2022 (UTC)
- One idea I have for making the consensus rules better is anyone is to give more leeway in making changes to the list. I am thinking that rather than discussing every change to the list, we could make it so that anyone can make changes to the list as they please, but if the change is reverted within a certain time period (ex. 24 Hours, 48 hours, 72 hours, 7 days), then they must come to the talk page to get a consensus. This might work better for level 4 than with level 3, but just a thought. Interstellarity (talk) 12:50, 9 August 2022 (UTC)
- I think that's a great compromise. An anti-variant of this that works better with Level 1, 2, 3 is to propose a change here and if it is accepted yet people aren't satisfied, they could revert within a time period and get more consensus. CactiStaccingCrane (talk) 12:52, 9 August 2022 (UTC)
- Again this seems self-defeating. If you genuinely want people to focus less on improving the list and more on improving the articles on it, don't make it easier for people to change the list. The less stable the list is, the less incentive anyone has to work on articles on the list that might get removed at any point. Cobblet (talk) 13:24, 9 August 2022 (UTC)
- I haven't explicitly said that this change would make editing the list easier. In fact, it could make editing the list harder, as the majority of votes would be opposes and you couldn't just simply pile on empty supports. What the new system allows though is quick closure clauses and promoting good arguments. CactiStaccingCrane (talk) 13:29, 9 August 2022 (UTC)
- I'm specifically referring to Interstellarity's suggestion to allow anyone to change the list as they please – obviously that is going to make the list less stable. Nevertheless, I'm willing to at least change the current rules to say that empty !votes are to be ignored. Cobblet (talk) 14:41, 9 August 2022 (UTC)
- I haven't explicitly said that this change would make editing the list easier. In fact, it could make editing the list harder, as the majority of votes would be opposes and you couldn't just simply pile on empty supports. What the new system allows though is quick closure clauses and promoting good arguments. CactiStaccingCrane (talk) 13:29, 9 August 2022 (UTC)
- Again this seems self-defeating. If you genuinely want people to focus less on improving the list and more on improving the articles on it, don't make it easier for people to change the list. The less stable the list is, the less incentive anyone has to work on articles on the list that might get removed at any point. Cobblet (talk) 13:24, 9 August 2022 (UTC)
- I think that's a great compromise. An anti-variant of this that works better with Level 1, 2, 3 is to propose a change here and if it is accepted yet people aren't satisfied, they could revert within a time period and get more consensus. CactiStaccingCrane (talk) 12:52, 9 August 2022 (UTC)
Elephants and Whales
Adding these back because they were only archived after 10 days. I'll bring up the other topics only 2-3 at a time per consensus. LightProof1995 (talk) 03:16, 14 August 2022 (UTC)
Elephants
I think we should add Elephants. It is currently a Featured Article which points to their importance. Elephants are the largest living land creatures and have been vital to humanity for millennia. First domesticated by the Indus Valley civilization, they were historically important in warfare, such as when Hannibal crossed the Alps on elephants. Both species of African elephant were listed as endangered in 2021 due to the illegal ivory trade and habitat loss.
It's not just the importance of elephants and whales historically to humans, it is also the fact they are such majestic and fascinating creatures. Just think about what elephants look like. They have distinctive ears, trunks, and tusks. The hippocampus of the elephant is larger relative to its size compared to humans which is why elephants are known to be such emotionally intelligent animals and is why you've heard the phrase "An elephant never forgets". LightProof1995 (talk) 08:59, 2 August 2022 (UTC)
- Oppose The only specific animals we list are domesticated ones that are especially important to humans, elephants are not on the same level. Maykii (talk) 05:31, 3 August 2022 (UTC)
- I definitely feel elephants are, in fact, on the same level of importance to humans and domestication, given their use in warfare. I still Support. Not that domestication is necessary for inclusion anyway, e.g. insect, mollusca, crustacean are all vital-3.
- Support: Aside from their major significance in human history and culture as beasts of burden, war animals and a source of luxury goods, elephants are ecosystem engineers - their size and bulk means they literally reform entire landscapes - making glades and pathways through forests and stripping scrubland back down to open plains. Hugely important animals. Iskandar323 (talk) 06:26, 5 August 2022 (UTC)
- I will add, my idea to add both elephants and whales comes from playing Civilization IV, where both of them are resources due to their importance for civilization. This game also taught me about Mansa Musa, Hatshepsut, Ramesses II, and Saladin, so I think it is a useful reference for composing this list of vital-3 articles. Because of this, I will list the other animal resources in the game:
Beaver (A type of Rodent, which we have) This is the "Fur" resource
Clam (A type of Mollusca, which we have)
Crab (A type of Crustacean, which we have)
Deer We don't have this.
Elephant We don't have this. In the game, it is called the Ivory resource and shows elephants, but you also need this resource to make War Elephants.
Whale We don't have this.
Camel We don't have this. Represented as Camel archers, but only if you play as the Arabian civilization as Saladin. Comparatively, you can have War elephants playing as any civilization. In Civilization III, war elephants were unique to the Indian civilization. In Civilization V, war elephants are unique to the Indian civilization as a unit called "War elephant" and the Carthaginian civilization as a unit called "African forest elephant", replacing chariot archer and horseman units, respectively. The ivory resource is still present, but isn't required by the Indian and Carthaginian civilizations to make their elephant units. There is also a Bison resource in Civ 5. LightProof1995 (talk) 04:47, 5 August 2022 (UTC)
I didn't think about deer until I made this list, but I'm not recommending we add them. I do think we should have both elephant and whale, however. Additionally, when zooming in on a town in the game, you can hear dogs barking and chickens clucking, which we both have. LightProof1995 (talk) 15:17, 3 August 2022 (UTC)
- Wouldn't Camel be more important? Ivory is a luxurious good, and war elephants aren't really something too common in the history of the earth, so I don't think they are more appropriate to be part of this vital list. C933103 (talk) 01:32, 5 August 2022 (UTC)
- Omg Camels!!! Nice catch haha yeah I forgot about them!! They are in Civilization IV too, but only if you play as the Arabian empire, led by Saladin, as Camel archers are a unique unit that replaces the knight. I'll add them to the list. LightProof1995 (talk) 04:34, 5 August 2022 (UTC)
- Oppose We have plenty of mammals as it is. At this point adding something like cotton should be a much higher priority than adding another mammal. Cobblet (talk) 04:12, 14 August 2022 (UTC)
Whales
I think we should add Whales. Like elephants, whales have also almost been driven to extinction due to their importance to humans. The whaling industry was important from the 1600s to the 1900s for products such as oil for lamps and ambergris. The blue whale is the largest animal known to have ever existed. Whale watching is a popular form of tourism worldwide.
Imagine you were an extraterrestrial looking at this list of vital articles. You might say "Ah, yes, humans arose from abiogenesis and evolution, first they were single-cell organisms, then fish, then they moved on land and evolved into primates, then humans, and that was the peak of evolution. So surely no animal went back into the ocean after having evolved on land right? Because that would make like no sense??? And they would see dinosaur and say "Ah yes, these were the largest animals to have ever existed on Earth for sure. Because how could these humans not include the largest one on this list?" LightProof1995 (talk) 09:02, 2 August 2022 (UTC)
- Support LightProof1995 (talk) 13:53, 3 August 2022 (UTC)
- Support: Similarly to elephants, whales have a major degree of significance in human history and culture as sources of food, and critically, oil - which literally kept the lights on for an entire period of history. They also literally stir the oceans with their bulk, mixing nutrients between water layers, their waste feeds plankton and their carcasses ocean floor ecosystems - altogether serving to play a major role in global carbon sequestration - on a similar level to significant numbers of global forests and jungles. Not sure if all this is all properly covered in the article, but it should be. Iskandar323 (talk) 06:33, 5 August 2022 (UTC)
- Oppose Same reason as elephants. Maykii (talk) 05:32, 3 August 2022 (UTC) LightProof1995 (talk) 03:16, 14 August 2022 (UTC)
- Oppose per my comment re elephants. And who is to say an alien would not find Posidonia australis more interesting than any animal? Cobblet (talk) 04:12, 14 August 2022 (UTC)
Add Cotton
Would be a useful addition to fill up the quota. Interstellarity (talk) 23:55, 18 August 2022 (UTC)
- Support
- Interstellarity (talk) 23:55, 18 August 2022 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Neutral
- Discussion