This is the talk page for User:Rhododendrites.
Music
Been thinking recently about how much Wikipedia does act as a social network, and how valuable that can be. Articles aren't social media, of course, but Wikipedia is an encyclopedia and a community, and healthy volunteer communities need to foster forms of communication that aren't strictly "talking shop". In that spirit, how about some music talk. Might just be me sharing, but who knows.
What I'm listening to
Occasionally sharing songs/albums that I find myself listening to repeatedly. Starting this at the end of 2022, so here's what I've been listening to this year. And yeah, it's all over the place.
- The Window of Appearances (Act 1 Scene 3) from Akhenaten (spotify is a little closer to what I heard, but it's also on youtube - Seeing Akhenaten at the Metropolitan Opera was one of my most memorable experiences this year. I knew almost nothing about it, haven't seen an opera since seeing one against my will as a child, but it just looked like such an unusual spectacle. Not only was the set and production outstanding, but I found myself listening to the music repeatedly ever since. This track is when Akhenaten sings for the first time. He's just been crowned pharaoh and makes his "appearance". Without expectations, his voice was immediately striking. I wasn't prepared for a countertenor (Anthony Ross Costanzo in this case) in that role (i.e. much higher than I would've thought). I don't have the classical vocabulary to talk about it properly, but the way the repetitive nature of the music shifts and intensifies from minor changes, with other voices coming in, was really powerful and shifted my undestanding of what I was getting into.
- Cool by Uffie (spotify youtube) - Great pop song, with pacing and infectious bass line that's just, well, really cool.
- Sunglasses At Night by Corey Hart (spotify youtube) - Heard the synth line sampled in another song and it drove me nuts I couldn't remember what it was from. Finally tracked it down and relearned how much this track slaps. Started a trend in my house of trying to turn random "a" sounds scratchy and loud.
- I've Seen Footage by Death Grips (spotify youtube) - Not going to be for everyone, but weird, hard, noisy, danceable hip hop scratches an itch.
- Is There a Ghost by Band of Horses (spotify youtube) - Band of Horses' Everything All the Time was one of my favorite albums about 15 years ago, and I realized I hadn't paid much attention to them since. Decided to see what they've been up to and was happy I did. Solid indie rock, maybe with some southern influence, that's catchy as hell.
- Pecking Order by Too Many Zooz (spotify youtube) - They call themselves "brass house", seemingly structuring their brass jazz like house music, and it works for me. This song isn't actually a big stand-out, but I had trouble choosing one.
- Pineapple Suite by Cristobal Tapia de Veer (from The White Lotus) (spotify youtube) - I was just really impressed by the soundtrack of White Lotus and wound up listening to it when the show was done.
- Hairy Candy by Tobacco (spotify youtube) - Tobacco's the guy from Black Moth Super Rainbow, and this sounds, well, exactly like BMSR. Fuzzy, psychedelic electronica with repetitive lyrics that function like another instrument.
- Miss You by Oliver Tree (spotify youtube) - I've had about enough of the musician-as-meme/clickbait schtick, and find Tree a bit whiny, but this song is just really catchy.
- Blazing Arrow by Blackalicious (spotify youtube) - Blackalicious's Gift of Gab was just really really good at coming up with complex rhymes that wind up as an impressive song rather than a gimmick. — Rhododendrites talk \\ 18:50, 25 December 2022 (UTC)
What I should be listening to (and what you're listening to)
Open to anyone.
- US Navy Band. I never would have thought this would be for me, but I find their Jersey Boys medley strangely compelling. -- RoySmith (talk) 20:36, 8 January 2023 (UTC)
- Mikayla McVey - folk singer & song writer, check out new album: Time Turns Everything
- Gangsta Boo - Recently deceased Memphis rapper, check out album: Enquiring Minds
- Photay - DJ and electronic music producer, pick any album
- Evolfo - Brooklyn based garage soul/rock band, check out song: Moon Eclipsed The Sun and 2021 album Site Out of Mind
- J. Cole - mainstream-ish, but if you did not listen to his "The Off-Season" album (2021), it's worth a listen --Wil540 art (talk) 16:07, 14 January 2023 (UTC)
Your Thoughts...
We have discussed the possibility of expanding THIS... I am seriously considering the creation of a full genre article comparable to stuff like Swedish death metal or West Coast hip hop etc. It would essentially be the narrative of the Don't Think I've Forgotten film in expanded form with robust links and independent sources. I am confident that text and sources for such an article will come together rather easily from our existing artist articles plus Cambodian Rocks and related items on Cambodian history and the war. The problem is I cannot think of a GOOD TITLE!
Cambodian rock might be pretty good but the era of interest will be 1959-1975 and current Cambodian music will be excluded. Cambodian psychedelic rock might also be good because it's a label that is often used by modern fans like Dengue Fever (band) but it implies that psychedelic was the only genre practiced in that scene. Something like 1960-70s rock in Cambodia might be too long and unwieldy for WP:NAMINGCRITERIA. Any thoughts? ---DOOMSDAYER520 (Talk|Contribs) 18:59, 2 August 2018 (UTC)
- I've found myself thinking about this a few times now. The best I've come up with so far is "Music of/in/during pre-Khmer Rouge Cambodia", with honorable mentions for "Music of Sihanouk Era Cambodia and the Khmer Republic", "Music of Cambodia, 1960-1975", "Mid-20th century music in Cambodia" and the like. It seems hard to draw a clear line -- musically or politically. I haven't read anything that does much to contrast music under Sihanouk vs. the Khmer Republic. That is, I've read plenty about how Sihanouk fostered music/culture, but not much about what changed between 1970-75. — Rhododendrites talk \\ 19:21, 2 August 2018 (UTC)
- Pinging Wikirictor, who wrote most of History of Cambodia, and WilliamThweatt, who has provided some useful insight about related topics in the past. @Wikirictor, since I don't know if you know the context here, we've been working on 1960s-70s Cambodian pop/rock music articles like Sinn Sisamouth, Yol Aularong, Pen Ran, Baksey Cham Krong, Meas Samon, Ros Serey Sothea, etc. (and my gateway to the music, Cambodian Rocks). — Rhododendrites talk \\ 19:29, 2 August 2018 (UTC)
- In the near future I'm ready to write a first draft of such an article on the scene/genre, but I'll take any ideas on what to call the dang thing. ---DOOMSDAYER520 (Talk|Contribs) 20:19, 2 August 2018 (UTC)
- Thanks for the ping. As I've noted before, I don't have much time to dedicate to WP these days, so I won't say much. However, I will say that both by its title and in its content, such an article should make it clear that this was (to use Doomsdayer's terms) one specific scene in Cambodian popular music of the era. The "rock" music has been brought to the attention of the Western world in recent times and that may make it seem like it was something more than it really was. But rock music wasn't the only kind of pop music in Cambodia during that era, nor was it likely even the most popular. Among Khmer, Sisamouth and SereiSothea for example, are more well-known for slow ballads like this and this or their myriad rom vong and rom kbach songs. These types of songs were (and are) way more popular among all Cambodian demographic groups than any of the psychedelic or "garage band" type music, which although popular among college and international students at the time for its "western" sound, was/is viewed as not much more than a novelty by most Cambodians. On top of that, in addition to pop music, there were other genres including court music, traditional and folk music that also prospered during this era. And...I've rambled on more than I intended. Suffice to say that the title and the article should put the CambodiaRocks-type music in the proper Cambodian context (i.e. not at all representative of all Cambodian popular music of the time) in addition to noting its new-found, and rather incongruous, popularity among westerners.--William Thweatt TalkContribs 07:19, 3 August 2018 (UTC)
- Thanks for the helpful reminder, William. Documentaries like Don't Think I've Forgotten and the selection of music that's been imported to the US have definitely shaped my understanding such that I may be of the impression that it was more popular than it was, but I've listened to enough e.g. Sinn Sisamouth and Ros Serey Sothea that I know it's not all western-influenced rock/pop/garage/psych. I don't know specifically what Doomsdayer's article plan is, but I would assume incorporate material about all sorts of pop music if doing an article on that era. Perhaps that just gets too much overlap with the existing article, and perhaps we would run into trouble with two people who don't read Khmer searching for sources on the elements of Khmer music that haven't become popular in the west (I say popular, but it's even more of a niche here :) ). So maybe the most succinct title/scope (which doesn't read as very succinct, but oh well) might be "Rock music of pre-Khmer Rouge Cambodia". — Rhododendrites talk \\ 14:47, 3 August 2018 (UTC)
- William's thoughts indicate why Music of Cambodia should remain the primary article in this area. Unfortunately that article has been in need of expansion for years, and international WP users do not have the expertise, and anyone who does have the expertise is probably not able to use international WP. In the history of the Sinn Sisamouth talk page you can see people popping up occasionally who really are Cambodian (as in an old dispute over how to spell his name), but otherwise we have a bunch of articles written by Americans with material that Americans know about. .......................... It's surely not perfect but the scene/genre has gained international notice that may very well transcend Cambodia itself. Or in other words, Klezmer is enjoyed and talked about worldwide by people who know little about its European Jewish originators and may not have to. "1960s-70s Cambodian Rock" (or whatever title) could survive WP's notability requirements thanks to its international recognition. Any article here must avoid implying that it represents ALL Cambodian popular music, which hopefully can be done with sensitive writing. I envision a tight genre-specific article; consider the article for Jazz fusion which does not imply that it's the only kind of jazz. ---DOOMSDAYER520 (Talk|Contribs) 15:08, 3 August 2018 (UTC)
- Thanks for the helpful reminder, William. Documentaries like Don't Think I've Forgotten and the selection of music that's been imported to the US have definitely shaped my understanding such that I may be of the impression that it was more popular than it was, but I've listened to enough e.g. Sinn Sisamouth and Ros Serey Sothea that I know it's not all western-influenced rock/pop/garage/psych. I don't know specifically what Doomsdayer's article plan is, but I would assume incorporate material about all sorts of pop music if doing an article on that era. Perhaps that just gets too much overlap with the existing article, and perhaps we would run into trouble with two people who don't read Khmer searching for sources on the elements of Khmer music that haven't become popular in the west (I say popular, but it's even more of a niche here :) ). So maybe the most succinct title/scope (which doesn't read as very succinct, but oh well) might be "Rock music of pre-Khmer Rouge Cambodia". — Rhododendrites talk \\ 14:47, 3 August 2018 (UTC)
New exercise regimen while staying indoors during the pandemic
I'll just leave this here... — Rhododendrites talk \\ 15:37, 23 March 2020 (UTC)
ADL, COI, and The Forward
I posted a link to this section at WP:COIN#Article in the Forward to avoid belaboring something that's more or less resolved there, for better or worse.
Here's the TL;DR version of what I said in response to an inquiry about the ADL case:
So much of the difficulty of editing Wikipedia as an organization or otherwise with a COI is how few bright lines rules there are, and how many shades of skepticism there are among the community such that a range of outcomes are possible for any given situation. That's true of a lot of Wikipedia, but seems particularly pronounced with COI issues. The reception ADL received in the noticeboard thread was IMO harsher than necessary, given they expressed interest in learning the rules, responded to criticism, and seemed to agree to just about everything we asked of them, stopping short of a self-imposed ban on ever adding ADL sources to articles. But while I think that should've led to a second chance, the result of the thread (to the extent there is a result, except to say that I was in the minority and ADL has stopped its editing project) is also unsurprising because -- and it's hard to overstate this -- first impressions are extremely important. If they hadn't edited the ADL article, hadn't only been adding ADL sources, and hadn't created weight problems (in other words, if they started with the guidelines that they've now agreed to), I doubt we would be here. But organizations and people with a COI do not get the same leeway to make mistakes that ordinary volunteers do, and there's a good reason for that. Any organization interested to edit Wikipedia really needs to do a lot of homework about Wikipedia policies and conventions beforehand, err on the side of transparency, and ask questions if they're not sure about something.
In general, I thought the article was a more or less fair summary of something that was likely frustrating for all involved. Hopefully others do, as well. — Rhododendrites talk \\ 14:58, 9 April 2021 (UTC)
- To add something I've said in several places at this point (as have others, probably more eloquently than me): if we're going to have vague COI rules in order to allow more room for case-by-case judgment, taking a hardline approach which operates as though the rules are not vague and which leaves no room for making mistakes ultimately discourages transparency and makes volunteers' jobs harder in the long run. Editing with a conflict of interest is never ideal, but it's going to happen, and doesn't always harm the project, so we might as well try to be more consistent with how we deal with it. — Rhododendrites talk \\ 16:39, 9 April 2021 (UTC)
Bird photos
What camera do you recommend for someone who is starting to take an interest in photography? Your photos of birds are rather high-quality and I'm thinking about finding a second hobby. — Mhawk10 (talk) 02:38, 4 May 2022 (UTC)
- @Mhawk10: That's great! I got started uploading my cell phone pics to Commons. I'm not up on all of the features/specs built into phone cameras these days, so can't really advise on that, but even if the megapixel count is going through the roof, phone cameras are limited by a tiny lens that just can't let as much light through as something physically bigger. It was a desire to contribute better images for Wikipedia that led me to buy a camera. If that's where you are, there are a few considerations: budget is the big one, of course, but also what kind of things you'd want to take pictures of? Wildlife, buildings, sports, landscapes, portraits, etc. I just went through these decisions when Wikimedia New York City was deciding on a camera to buy for our members to use. We settled on a nice Panasonic point-and-shoot (as opposed to an interchangeable lens format). For most things, it works great, but if you want a really wide angle for a giant building or a really long zoom for a distant bird, it doesn't have as much flexibility. — Rhododendrites talk \\ 13:56, 4 May 2022 (UTC)
An image created by you has been promoted to featured picture status Your image, File:Mockingbird in Bay Ridge (85082).jpg, was nominated on Wikipedia:Featured picture candidates, gained a consensus of support, and has been promoted. If you would like to nominate an image, please do so at Wikipedia:Featured picture candidates. Thank you for your contribution! Armbrust The Homunculus 07:10, 9 May 2022 (UTC)
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ICYMI or didn't read it
I remember your views on "being first" and creating articles right away. Well, if you do, you apparently end up in The Signpost (scroll down to "A profile of Wikipedians and breaking news") and CNN. cart-Talk 10:23, 30 May 2022 (UTC)
Featured picture scheduled for POTD
Hi Rhododendrites,
This is to let you know that File:Fulton Center skylight (91420).jpg, a featured picture you uploaded, has been selected as the English Wikipedia's picture of the day (POTD) for October 9, 2022. A preview of the POTD is displayed below and can be edited at Template:POTD/2022-10-09. If you have any concerns, please place a message at Wikipedia talk:Picture of the day. Thank you! Adam Cuerden (talk)Has about 7.9% of all FPs 11:24, 1 June 2022 (UTC)
The Sky Reflector-Net at Fulton Center, a subway and retail complex centered at the intersection of Fulton Street and Broadway in Lower Manhattan, New York City. The Sky Reflector-Net, which was commissioned by the MTA Arts & Design (the art program of the MTA), was installed in 2014 in the Fulton Center transit hub. Located at the center of the oculus, the Sky Reflector-Net uses hundreds of aluminum mirrors to provide natural sunlight from a 53 ft (16 m) skylight to an underground area as much as four stories deep. Photograph credit: User:Rhododendrites
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An image created by you has been promoted to featured picture status Your image, File:Male northern cardinal in Central Park (52612).jpg, was nominated on Wikipedia:Featured picture candidates, gained a consensus of support, and has been promoted. If you would like to nominate an image, please do so at Wikipedia:Featured picture candidates. Thank you for your contribution! Armbrust The Homunculus 21:48, 1 June 2022 (UTC)
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An image created by you has been promoted to featured picture status Your image, File:Northern cardinal female in CP (02035).jpg, was nominated on Wikipedia:Featured picture candidates, gained a consensus of support, and has been promoted. If you would like to nominate an image, please do so at Wikipedia:Featured picture candidates. Thank you for your contribution! Armbrust The Homunculus 21:48, 1 June 2022 (UTC)
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Would you consider becoming a New Page Reviewer?
Hi Rhododendrites, I've recently been looking for editors to invite to join the new page reviewing team, and after reviewing your editing history, I think you would be a good candidate. Reviewing/patrolling a page doesn't take much time but it requires a good understanding of Wikipedia policies and guidelines; the new page reviewing team needs help from experienced users like yourself. Would you please consider becoming a New Page Reviewer? Kindly read the tutorial before making your decision (if it looks daunting, don't worry, most pages are easy to review, and habits are quick to develop). If this looks like something that you can do, please consider joining us. If you choose to apply, you can drop an application over at WP:PERM/NPR. If you have questions, please feel free to drop a message on my talk page or at the reviewer's discussion board. Cheers, and hope to see you around, (t · c) buidhe 00:18, 2 June 2022 (UTC) |
Featured picture scheduled for POTD
Hi Rhododendrites,
This is to let you know that File:Male northern cardinal in Central Park (52612).jpg, a featured picture you uploaded, has been selected as the English Wikipedia's picture of the day (POTD) for December 25, 2023. A preview of the POTD is displayed below and can be edited at Template:POTD/2023-12-25. If you have any concerns, please place a message at Wikipedia talk:Picture of the day. Thank you! Adam Cuerden (talk)Has about 7.9% of all FPs 11:55, 2 June 2022 (UTC)
Male and female northern cardinals (Cardinalis cardinalis). It can be found in southeastern Canada, the United States, Mexico, Belize, and Guatemala. . Its habitat includes woodlands, gardens, shrublands, and wetlands. The northern cardinal is a mid-sized songbird with a body length of 21–23 cm (8.3–9.1 in). It is mainly granivorous, but also feeds on insects and fruit. The male behaves territorially, marking out his territory with song. During courtship, the male feeds seed to the female beak-to-beak. A clutch of three to four eggs is laid, and two to four clutches are produced each year. Photograph credit: Rhododendrites
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request group call
hi there! would it be possible to please schedule another group call? it could be the whole chapter if you want. or alternately, just the NYC Meetup board. or alternately, you, me, plus any other people you might wish. nothing major, but a few substantive updates, on a few different things. I hope that's ok? feel free to let me know. thanks!!! --Sm8900 (talk) 23:44, 7 June 2022 (UTC)
- Hello. By another group call, what do you mean? Another WikiWednesday? If there's something on your mind that may be of interest to others in the chapter, you're always welcome to post to the WMNYC talk page to see if there's interest, or post to Discord, etc. Sorry if I'm misinterpreting what you mean. — Rhododendrites talk \\ 02:50, 8 June 2022 (UTC)
Seriously? You seriously need to bring this up in a discussion that's already splintering in a million directions? I get you have a personal bugbear against En-wiki FPC. This was not the time to bring it up. Adam Cuerden (talk)Has about 7.9% of all FPs 19:58, 12 June 2022 (UTC)
- What is the time to bring it up, if not when people are talking (implicitly or otherwise) about the selection of POTD and the relationship of that process to FPC? If I raise it when there's no active issue, nobody will care.
- That said, I get that the current thread(s) involve a lot of stuff being thrown in your direction. While I don't agree with you that it's inappropriate to bring up, in an effort not to exacerbate what I'm sure is a stressful thread, I'll replace it with a pointer here if anyone wants to follow up. Fair? — Rhododendrites talk \\ 20:16, 12 June 2022 (UTC)
- Hmm. could've sworn the reply link automatically generated a ping. Oh well. Here it is: @Adam Cuerden: — Rhododendrites talk \\ 20:18, 12 June 2022 (UTC)
- You suggested we throw out the whole process literally immediately after I had spent two weeks or so setting up the next six months of POTD. Back when POTD had less than a week of images queued up? Great time. After someone had just spent literal hundreds of hours making a massive backlog? Really terrible time Adam Cuerden (talk)Has about 7.9% of all FPs 20:22, 12 June 2022 (UTC)
- First, I think it's great you've set up a POTD buffer. Thanks for that. In no scenario would I support getting rid of that. Even if, against the odds, enough people agree that we should start using Commons FPs, that's no reason to delist current enwp FPs, and it's no reason to toss out the current POTD queue. The ideal would be to keep everything we have and just stop promoting new ones. Mark enwp FPC as historical, keep the current FPs as-is, and just start allowing Commons FPs. IMO. But we can talk about it another time, too. — Rhododendrites talk \\ 20:33, 12 June 2022 (UTC)
- You suggested we throw out the whole process literally immediately after I had spent two weeks or so setting up the next six months of POTD. Back when POTD had less than a week of images queued up? Great time. After someone had just spent literal hundreds of hours making a massive backlog? Really terrible time Adam Cuerden (talk)Has about 7.9% of all FPs 20:22, 12 June 2022 (UTC)
FPC
(Moved from Talk:Main page — Rhododendrites talk \\ 20:19, 12 June 2022 (UTC))
Periodic reminder that one of the main reasons (if not the main reason) we maintain a parallel FPC process, rather than phase it out when Commons centralized it, is to select images for our POTD. Participation has been a bit better over the last year than in the past several (kudos to participants for that, indeed -- and apologies for otherwise being a naysayer in the face of some improvement), but it still almost never promotes at the rate of 1/day. The awkward rules about use of images in articles (is it used? is it still used? where on the page is it used? is it discussed in the text? is the article otherwise decent quality?) plus slim participation means idiosyncratic opinions get more weight than they do on Commons. The Commons process gets far more people participating and promotes about 3/day vs. <1/day, and includes much of what gets promote here (as well as a bunch of stuff that isn't used in articles, granted, but a lot that could be but isn't yet). Instead of going through a separate FPC process where a few people select what should be in the pool of POTDs, then having a separate process to choose POTDs, and then having a discussion when the broader community sees what the FPC community promoted, we could take advantage of the process that already gets more participation and provides more options, and can just focus on a process which selects POTDs from those. — Rhododendrites talk \\ 19:52, 12 June 2022 (UTC)
- I agree with marking enwiki FPC historical and just having one FP process at Commons. Enwiki could then still have a POTD process, which chooses from among Commons FPs. I also agree that we should take a look at POTD guidelines (e.g., used in an article, as you mentioned) to see if they're still helpful. Levivich 20:41, 12 June 2022 (UTC)
- The only exception(s) I can think of is/are any image that is considered free on Wikipedia but cannot be on Commons (such as anything with {{PD-US-expired-abroad}}). WP:FPCR only says that it must be freely-licensed and thus not fair use. -BRAINULATOR9 (TALK) 17:15, 14 June 2022 (UTC)
- I'm always on board with merging redundant processes. This seems like a prime candidate. Best, {{u|Sdkb}} talk 03:09, 13 June 2022 (UTC)
- I opposed killing off en-FPC the last time I saw it come around, but I'm shifting towards the point of view that it's not a useful process. It's supposed to have different standards from commons, focusing more on being informative than on being pretty and unblemished, but in practice that's not what most of the regular participants care most about, so it ends up just being a smaller-participation copy of commons. What's the point of that? —David Eppstein (talk) 04:02, 17 June 2022 (UTC)
- From my experience, informative images that aren't sufficiently "pretty" really do do badly on Commons. Just looking at things I've had promoted recently, these four passed here easily, but not on Commons:
- Comparing the discussions here and there could well be informative. Since you tend to get more of what you encourage, I could certainly see a switch to Commons eliminating large categories of images from getting brought to Wikipedia at all. Also, there's a LOT of things that pass Commons with basically no use cases. Adam Cuerden (talk)Has about 7.9% of all FPs 21:32, 18 June 2022 (UTC)
event today in Bronx
Hi. It was great to see you yesterday at the zoom call. Thanks for all your ideas!
Look at this. Here is a wikipedia meetup event, which will be today in the Bronx!! I will post the text below.
https://mobile.twitter.com/wikicari/status/1539369817647755264
Thurs, June 23, 1-4PM join us and WikiCari in #OldSanJuan and the Bronx as Wikimedia expert hosts a Wikipedia meetup/photo walk focused on #PuertoRico. Both events are at @ChocobarCortes locations in PR and NYC. More info at link below. Sm8900 (talk) 09:24, 23 June 2022 (UTC)
Here is the link for the actual events. Thanks.
https://m.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Events/San_Juan/2022-06-23 Sm8900 (talk) 09:28, 23 June 2022 (UTC)
- @Sm8900: Thanks for the heads up. I won't be able to attend, but it sounds like a great event. I'm surprised I haven't seen anything about this before now, but that's likely because it's primarily organized in Puerto Rico. Not sure who's organizing locally. — Rhododendrites talk \\ 13:57, 23 June 2022 (UTC)
Interesting group item
I just found this interesting item in your talk page archives: Discussion on Growth team "add an image" idea, which also led me to this interesting team and project. mw:Growth. I may add this to the navbox that I showed you. thanks!! Sm8900 (talk) 14:20, 23 June 2022 (UTC)
note re items
hi. it was great to see you on the zoom call for the nyc meetup chapter. would it be ok if I send you an invite via email, to join the forums site for "movement strategy" i.e. the site that hists the threads run by Discourse? I hope that's ok. we could really use your input there. feel free to let me know. thanks! Sm8900 (talk) 13:40, 24 June 2022 (UTC)
Hello
Hi, I saw your name in an AfD and thought I would stop by to say hello. I started editing again a few days ago. Have a great week. Lightburst (talk) 20:50, 12 July 2022 (UTC)
- @Lightburst: Hey there. Welcome back -- hope you had a restful break! — Rhododendrites talk \\ 13:42, 14 July 2022 (UTC)
- Thanks, Yes, it was needed. The most stressful volunteer work in the world. lol Lightburst (talk) 15:09, 14 July 2022 (UTC)
Singularity University discussion
Hello Rhododendrites, my name is Valeria. I noticed that you're a member of WP:H+ and thought you might be willing to take a look at my edit request and subsequent discussion at Talk:Singularity University. Would really appreciate some additional input, Valeria at SG (talk) 12:15, 14 July 2022 (UTC)
There is currently a discussion over a topic ban for me, and you might wish to participate
The link is at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard#Epiphyllumlover additions of polygamist information.--Epiphyllumlover (talk) 20:18, 28 July 2022 (UTC)
Re: Warnock
Hi, not badgering you about your position, just offering some interesting info. You wrote: "With the Warnock link above, it looks like after you removed it, that was that". Apparently not: [1] Washington Times is another yellow/black(in dark mode) source that has a history of failed fact checks and publishing opinion as fact. So, to your point, the disputes live on, and the disputed info can be sourced in other ways. But, "that" was not that, and probably Washington Times and Washington Examiner are also in the same group as Daily Caller, Daily Wire, etc. Just my thought. There is a current problem of a few dubious sources in American politics. Andre🚐 18:55, 7 August 2022 (UTC)
- @Andrevan: I think I'm missing something. I don't disagree that Washington Times/Washington Examiner aren't great sources for US politics (or much else), but is this relevant to the Fox News RfC? — Rhododendrites talk \\ 18:59, 7 August 2022 (UTC)
An image created by you has been promoted to featured picture status Your image, File:Great golden digger wasp (31760).jpg, was nominated on Wikipedia:Featured picture candidates, gained a consensus of support, and has been promoted. If you would like to nominate an image, please do so at Wikipedia:Featured picture candidates. Thank you for your contribution! Armbrust The Homunculus 17:30, 16 August 2022 (UTC)
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Banning policy
Hello. I made an addition to the Wikipedia Banning Policy that relates to a recent case in WP:AN and has to do with your objections to the eventual site ban. I explain the addition in the talk page, where you may add you own comments. Nxavar (talk) 13:17, 23 August 2022 (UTC)
Precious anniversary
Six years! |
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--Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:04, 30 August 2022 (UTC)
An image created by you has been promoted to featured picture status Your image, File:Rooftop farm at the Essex (65787p).jpg, was nominated on Wikipedia:Featured picture candidates, gained a consensus of support, and has been promoted. If you would like to nominate an image, please do so at Wikipedia:Featured picture candidates. Thank you for your contribution! Armbrust The Homunculus 19:02, 31 August 2022 (UTC)
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The Signpost: 31 August 2022
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- In focus: Thinking inside the box
- Tips and tricks: The unexpected rabbit hole of typo fixing in citations...
- Technology report: Vector (2022) deployment discussions happening now
- Serendipity: Two photos of every library on earth
- Featured content: Our man drills are safe for work, but our Labia is Fausta.
- Recent research: The dollar value of "official" external links
- Traffic report: What dreams (and heavily trafficked articles) may come
- Essay: Delete the junk!
- Humour: CommonsComix No. 1
- From the archives: 5, 10, and 15 years ago
Feedback request: Biographies request for comment
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WikiCup 2022 September newsletter
The fourth round of the WikiCup has now finished. 383 points were required to reach the final, and the new round has got off to a flying start with all finalists already scoring. In round 4, Bloom6132 with 939 points was the highest points-scorer, with a combination of DYKs and In the news items, followed by BennyOnTheLoose, Sammi Brie and Lee Vilenski. The points of all contestants are swept away as we start afresh for the final round.
At this stage, we say goodbye to the eight competitors who didn't quite make it; thank you for the useful contributions you have made to the Cup and Wikipedia, and we hope you will join us again next year. For the remaining competitors, remember that any content promoted after the end of round 4 but before the start of round 5 can be claimed in round 5. Remember too that you must claim your points within 14 days of "earning" them, and importantly, before the deadline on October 31st!
If you are concerned that your nomination, whether it be for a good article, a featured process, or anything else, will not receive the necessary reviews, please list it on Wikipedia:WikiCup/Reviews Needed (remember to remove your listing when no longer required). If you want to help out with the WikiCup, please do your bit to help keep down the review backlogs! Questions are welcome on Wikipedia talk:WikiCup, and the judges are reachable on their talk pages or by email. If you wish to start or stop receiving this newsletter, please feel free to add or remove yourself from Wikipedia:WikiCup/Newsletter/Send. The judges are Sturmvogel 66 and Cwmhiraeth. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 12:44, 3 September 2022 (UTC)
Invitation to verify onion links at List of Tor onion services
I have been trying to enter and verify all onion links on the list(see:[3]). Given your interest, I invite you to also verify these and add them with reference to wikidata. I have finished from Communications to News and Archive. You can start from Software and work your way up. Thanks! Greatder (talk) 12:33, 5 September 2022 (UTC)
Lightbreather
The Arbitration Committee is considering an unban appeal from Lightbreather (talk · contribs). You are being notified as you participated in the last unban discussion. You may give feedback here. For the Arbitration Committee, Barkeep49 (talk) 15:36, 6 September 2022 (UTC)
- Thanks, Barkeep49. Do you have a handy link to the past discussion? I'm finding it surprisingly hard to find (it's surprisingly hard to find anything in the various arbitration-related pages). Seems like it should, at minimum, be documented on the case page, right? — Rhododendrites talk \\ 16:07, 6 September 2022 (UTC)
- Ah. Nevermind. Pppery linked it. — Rhododendrites talk \\ 16:21, 6 September 2022 (UTC)
An image created by you has been promoted to featured picture status Your image, File:Chipmunk with stuffed cheeks in Prospect Park (05980).jpg, was nominated on Wikipedia:Featured picture candidates, gained a consensus of support, and has been promoted. If you would like to nominate an image, please do so at Wikipedia:Featured picture candidates. Thank you for your contribution! Armbrust The Homunculus 17:27, 6 September 2022 (UTC)
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- Way to go! Love those cheeks. Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 17:34, 6 September 2022 (UTC)
- @Firefangledfeathers: Thanks. Someone actually cropped it and added it to cheek pouch, too. :) — Rhododendrites talk \\ 17:36, 6 September 2022 (UTC)
Feedback request: Society, sports, and culture request for comment
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Feedback request: Wikipedia proposals request for comment
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Feedback request: Wikipedia policies and guidelines request for comment
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This Month in GLAM: August 2022
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Feedback request: Wikipedia style and naming request for comment
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Signpost Obituary
Took the liberty of fixing up the formatting a bit. Adam Cuerden (talk)Has about 8.1% of all FPs 01:25, 19 September 2022 (UTC)
- Sorry, this fell off my radar for a bit. Let me know if there's something I can still help with. Didn't get a response to my follow-up on Commons but can reach out to some dewp folks if it would be helpful. — Rhododendrites talk \\ 12:40, 23 September 2022 (UTC)
- @Adam Cuerden: pinging -- could've sworn the reply link automatically did that. — Rhododendrites talk \\ 12:41, 23 September 2022 (UTC)
- I know there's a discussion on commons:Commons talk:FPC. Adam Cuerden (talk)Has about 8.1% of all FPs 14:37, 23 September 2022 (UTC)
- @Adam Cuerden: pinging -- could've sworn the reply link automatically did that. — Rhododendrites talk \\ 12:41, 23 September 2022 (UTC)
Sep 28: Wikimedia NYC Annual Election/Members Meeting (+October 2 picnic)
September 28, 7pm: ONLINE Wikimedia NYC Annual Election/Members Meeting | |
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You are invited to join the Wikimedia NYC community for our Annual Election/Members Meeting. To join the meeting from your computer or smartphone, just visit the Zoom link on the meetup page. Important election info:
P.S. Sunday October 2 will be post-election picnic gathering at the Grecian Shelter in Prospect Park, Brooklyn. |
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--Wikimedia New York City Team via MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 01:40, 20 September 2022 (UTC)
Sun Oct 2: WikiNYC Post-Election Wiki-Picnic
Sun Oct 2, 2-5pm: WikiNYC Post-Election Wiki-Picnic | |
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You are invited to join us for a planned outdoor gathering with the local Wikimedia NYC community at the Grecian Shelter of Brooklyn's Prospect Park. We will celebrate after Wednesday's Chapter Election, share some food, and informally discuss wiki-plans for the coming year. All attendees are subject to Wikimedia NYC's Code of Conduct. In addition, to participate in person you should be vaccinated and also be sure to respect others' personal space, and we may limit overall attendance size if appropriate.
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Feedback requests from the Feedback Request Service
Your feedback is requested at Talk:Accountability software on a "Society, sports, and culture" request for comment, and at Talk:Coin Coin Chapter Three: River Run Thee on a "Media, the arts, and architecture" request for comment. Thank you for helping out!
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Books & Bytes – Issue 52
Books & Bytes
Issue 52, July – August 2022
- New instant-access collections:
- SpringerLink and Springer Nature
- Project MUSE
- Taylor & Francis
- ASHA
- Loeb
- Feedback requested on this newsletter
Sent by MediaWiki message delivery on behalf of The Wikipedia Library team --12:21, 30 September 2022 (UTC)
Feedback request: History and geography request for comment
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The Signpost: 30 September 2022
- News and notes: Board vote results, bot's big GET, crat chat gives new mop, WMF seeks "sound logo" and "organizer lab"
- In the media: A few complaints and mild disagreements
- Special report: Decentralized Fundraising, Centralized Distribution
- Discussion report: Much ado about Fox News
- Traffic report: Kings and queens and VIPs
- Featured content: Farm-fresh content
- CommonsComix: CommonsComix 2: Paulus Moreelse
- From the archives: 5, 10, and 15 Years ago: September 2022
Feedback request: Society, sports, and culture request for comment
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mass creation of articles
Regarding your comment: I believe the support statement agrees with you in that passing the guidelines they mentioned demonstrates that the standards for having an article are met. isaacl (talk) 23:18, 3 October 2022 (UTC)
This Month in GLAM: September 2022
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It'll just be gamed
Would you like to write an essay about the logical fallacy of "It'll just be gamed"? This objection has been trotted out in a variety of situations, usually to claim that we can't provide clear guidance, because it'll just be gamed. (If it's short enough, it might be possible to insert a line about this into Wikipedia:Policies and guidelines.) WhatamIdoing (talk) 16:11, 10 October 2022 (UTC)
- @WhatamIdoing: Ha. I was thinking something very much along those lines. I'll ping you if I do. :) — Rhododendrites talk \\ 13:16, 12 October 2022 (UTC)
Sat Oct 29: Wikidata Day in NYC
Sat Oct 29: Wikidata Day in NYC | |
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You are invited to join the Wikimedia NYC community for Wikidata Day in NYC, an event marking the Wikidata 10th Birthday with a celebration and mini-conference. The all-day event will feature beginner workshops, keynote presentations, breakout group discussions, lightning talks and yes, CAKE. It is inspired by such past events as the Wikipedia Day tradition in New York City. All attendees are subject to Wikimedia NYC's Code of Conduct. In addition, to participate in person you should be vaccinated and also be sure to respect others' personal space, and we may limit overall attendance size if appropriate. Brooklyn Public Library encourages the wearing of masks when indoors, and especially be mindful of those in your proximity.
P.S. Three days before, October 26 will be October Online WikiWednesday |
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--Wikimedia New York City Team via MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 18:00, 17 October 2022 (UTC)
Feedback request: Wikipedia policies and guidelines request for comment
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Interesting research on broadband
Saw this data journalism article today and thought you might be interested. It looks at internet speed disparities between areas of historical redlining. There are some really interesting results. In Kansas City, Missouri--the worst performing city--68% of residents in neighborhoods historically allocated to marginalized home buyers received internet download speeds <25Mb/s. That's apparently so slow that the FCC doesn't even consider it broadband internet. For residents in neighborhoods historically allocated to non-marginalized home buyers, only 12% received speeds that slow despite paying the same price. It's a very thorough piece of data journalism, and raises interesting questions about equity of access to wikis.
In recent years, I remember reading discussions about article size appealing to the rise of high-speed internet and ubiquity of broadband as a reason to weaken or ignore Wikipedia:Article size. This always would effect readers with limited broadband (such as rural readers) but this investigation suggests that the disparities may also lead to racial and economic disparities beyond the geographic ones. For example, a 75kB article (probably worth splitting per our guidelines), a reader in a historically redlined neighborhood who has inequitable internet access would need to wait 22 seconds for the whole article to load! Add on any gadgets, user scripts, and custom CSS that an editor might have on top of the usual reader, and this turns out to be a serious barrier.
It might be interesting to investigate these implications further. How has article size changed over time? Where is the readership coming from? How might the inequity of broadband along historical redlining patterns affect access to content and editing abilities? — Wug·a·po·des 19:59, 20 October 2022 (UTC)
- Thanks, Wugapodes. I haven't had time to properly go through this yet, but initial impressions: can't say I'm surprised that there are a range of disadvantages correlated with redlined areas. I imagine lack of infrastructure (area-wide as well as individual houses/structures), differences in assumptions about what people can afford that ISPs build in to marketing of higher speed plans [or lack thereof], straightforward speed tiering, etc. On the wiki side, I feel like there must be some other factor in wiki page downloads. As a test, I used a relatively large page, birding in New York City (86kb). I ran a speed test on my phone (my home network is faster), and found about 36Mbps download. Based on that, the page should take upwards of 20 seconds to download, but it's completely readable in about 3 seconds (which, according to my speed test results, is even faster than my home network should process it). I guess it probably loads text first, then menus, then images, then javascript, or something like that? Maybe someone with more technical knowledge (perhaps Legoktm or Enterprisey?) understands it. My watchlist, on the other hand, requires a pretty good wait -- and even then it behaves oddly sometimes -- but there I know I have lots of scripts/gadgets working hard. — Rhododendrites talk \\ 20:53, 25 October 2022 (UTC)
- Also, I'm quite sure I've seen some charts about article size over time, but the best thing I see at the moment is the chart at Wikipedia:Size of Wikipedia that shows average words per article increasing from 267 in January 2001 to 642 in October 2022. — Rhododendrites talk \\ 20:55, 25 October 2022 (UTC)
DYK for Birding in New York City
On 23 October 2022, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Birding in New York City, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that birders in New York City have recorded over 400 species? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Birding in New York City. You are welcome to check how many pageviews the nominated article or articles got while on the front page (here's how, Birding in New York City), and if they received a combined total of at least 416.7 views per hour (i.e., 5,000 views in 12 hours or 10,000 in 24), the hook may be added to the statistics page. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.
Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 00:02, 23 October 2022 (UTC)
Fifteenth anniversary on Wikipedia!
Invitation to join the Fifteen Year Society
Dear Rhododendrites,
I'd like to extend a cordial invitation to you to join the Fifteen Year Society, an informal group for editors who've been participating in the Wikipedia project for fifteen years or more.
Best regards, Chris Troutman (talk) 19:30, 25 October 2022 (UTC)
- Sounds so distinguished. A date commemorating this excellent contribution. :) Userbox updated. Thanks. — Rhododendrites talk \\ 20:30, 25 October 2022 (UTC)
Feedback request: Biographies request for comment
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The Signpost: 31 October 2022
- From the team: A new goose on the roost
- News from the WMF: Governance updates from, and for, the Wikimedia Endowment
- Disinformation report: From Russia with WikiLove
- Featured content: Topics, lists, submarines and Gurl.com
- Serendipity: We all make mistakes – don’t we?
- Traffic report: Mama, they're in love with a criminal
Sat Nov 12: WikiConference North America in NYC
Sat Nov 12: WikiConference North America in NYC | |
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You are invited to join the Wikimedia NYC community for WikiConference North America in NYC, as a local satellite event and celebration of the primarily online WikiConference 2022 (Nov 11-13). The Saturday in-person event will feature beginner workshops, keynote presentations, breakout group discussions, and lightning talks. It is inspired by such past events as the Wikipedia Day tradition in New York City. In keeping with the online conference's partnership this year with Mapping USA and theme of "open knowledge allies", we are highlighting OpenStreetMap NYC efforts and other local organizing around various communities of practice. All attendees are subject to Wikimedia NYC's Code of Conduct. In addition, to participate in person you should be vaccinated and also be sure to respect others' personal space, and we may limit overall attendance size if appropriate. Brooklyn Public Library encourages the wearing of masks when indoors, and especially be mindful of those in your proximity.
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--Wikimedia New York City Team via MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 16:16, 3 November 2022 (UTC)
Feedback request: Politics, government, and law request for comment
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Feedback request: Politics, government, and law request for comment
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RfC at Stacey Abrams
Hi. Just a note to let you know that, as far as I can tell, you appear to have arrived at an RfC after it was agreed to cancel it. The cancellation was due to its having been launched by an editor who launched it just before his TBAN from American Politics was made official. Because the thread was closed, your comment has been hatted along with several others. The options in the RfC were written by the banned editor and do not reflect any agreement as to what any RfC might propose. I hope you will continue to participate at the talk page and/or BLPN if you wish. I am going to archive the aborted RfC so that the same thing doesn't happen again. Thanks for your understanding. SPECIFICO talk 15:36, 6 November 2022 (UTC)
- All fine with me. Thanks for the heads up. — Rhododendrites talk \\ 15:40, 6 November 2022 (UTC)
WikiCup 2022 November newsletter
The 2022 WikiCup has drawn to a close with the final round going down to the wire. The 2022 champion is
- Lee Vilenski (1752 points), who won in 2020 and was runner up in both 2019 and last year. In the final round he achieved 3 FAs and 15 GAs, mostly on cue sports. He was closely followed by
- Bloom6132 (1732), who specialised in "In the news" items and DYKs, and who has reached the final round of the Cup for the past three years. Next was
- BennyOnTheLoose (1238), another cue sports enthusiast, also interested in songs, followed by
- Muboshgu (1082), an "In the news" contributor, a seasoned contestant who first took part in the Cup ten years ago. Other finalists were
- Sammi Brie (930), who scored with a featured article, good articles and DYKs on TV and radio stations,
- Kavyansh.Singh (370), who created various articles on famous Americans, including an FA on Louis H. Bean, famed for his prediction of election outcomes. Next was
- PCN02WPS (292), who scored with good articles and DYKs on sporting and other topics and
- Z1720 (25) who had DYKs on various topics including historic Canadians.
During the WikiCup, contestants achieved 37 featured articles, 349 good articles, 360 featured article reviews, 683 good article reviews and 480 In the news items, so Wikipedia has benefited greatly from the activities of WikiCup competitors. Well done everyone! All those who reached the final round will receive awards and the following special awards will be made, based on high performance in particular areas of content creation and review. So that the finalists do not have an undue advantage, these prizes are awarded to the competitor who scored the highest in any particular field in a single round, or the overall leader in this field.
- Lee Vilenski wins the featured article prize, for a total of 6 FAs during the course of the competition and 3 in the final round.
- Kavyansh.Singh wins the featured list prize, for 3 FLs in round 2.
- Adam Cuerden wins the featured picture prize, for 39 FPs during the competition.
- Z1720 wins the featured article reviewer prize, for 35 FARs in round 4.
- Epicgenius wins the good article prize, for 32 GAs in round 1.
- SounderBruce wins the featured topic prize, for 4 FT articles in round 1.
- Lee Vilenski wins the good topic prize, for 34 GT articles in round 5.
- Sammi Brie wins the good article reviewer prize, for 71 GARs overall.
- Sammi Brie wins the Did you know prize, for 30 DYKs in round 3 and 106 overall.
- Bloom6132 wins the In the news prize, for 106 ITNs in round 5 and 289 overall.
Next year's competition will begin on 1 January and possible changes to the rules and scoring are being discussed on the discussion page. You are invited to sign up to take part in the contest; the WikiCup is open to all Wikipedians, both novices and experienced editors, and we hope to have a good turnout for the 2023 competition. Until then, it only remains to once again congratulate our worthy winners and finalists, and thank all participants for their involvement! If you wish to start or stop receiving this newsletter, please feel free to add or remove yourself from Wikipedia:WikiCup/Newsletter/Send. Sturmvogel 66 and Cwmhiraeth. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 19:28, 6 November 2022 (UTC)
Feedback request: History and geography request for comment
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This Month in GLAM: October 2022
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Feedback request: Biographies request for comment
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Books & Bytes – Issue 53
The Wikipedia Library: Books & Bytes
Issue 53, September – October 2022
- New collections:
- Edward Elgar
- E-Yearbook
- Corriere della Serra
- Wikilala
- Collections moved to Library Bundle:
- Ancestry
- New feature: Outage notification
- Spotlight: Collections indexed in EDS
Sent by MediaWiki message delivery on behalf of The Wikipedia Library team --11:19, 17 November 2022 (UTC)
Feedback request: Society, sports, and culture request for comment
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Feedback request: Religion and philosophy request for comment
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Helping people
Just out of interest – are you actually aware of anyone in Russia being in any real way helped by WMF? My recollection (which may be incomplete) was that the chap in Belarus for example basically coped alone with the situation. To be fair, there wasn't much the WMF could have done, either. Which is why I think the argument that "we are collecting money so we can help improve the human rights situation of our editors in Russia" is flawed. But I am always interested in hearing more about this if there is stuff I'm missing. Regards, --Andreas JN466 13:55, 22 November 2022 (UTC)
- @Jayen466: That's not really something I'd be aware of. I was just trying to clarify what I think Victoria's point was, which is that looking at line items for $ allocated to certain countries doesn't actually tell you what [whatever the foundation spends money on] does for readers/editors in that country. i.e. the staff, departments, programs, initiatives, services, etc. that are concentrated in places like the US, UK, and Germany, benefit people outside of those countries. As for how much benefit, I think that would be hard to quantify. YMMV. — Rhododendrites talk \\ 17:00, 22 November 2022 (UTC)
Orphaned non-free image File:Marie Tharp in July 2001.jpg
Thanks for uploading File:Marie Tharp in July 2001.jpg. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).
Note that any non-free images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described in section F5 of the criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. --B-bot (talk) 18:32, 24 November 2022 (UTC)
Nov 30: WikiWednesday Salon in Brooklyn + online
Nov 30: WikiWednesday @ BPL + on Zoom | |
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You are invited to join the Wikimedia NYC community for our WikiWednesday Salon, with in-person at Brooklyn Public Library by Grand Army Plaza, in the Central Library's Info Commons Lab, as well as an online-based participation option. No experience of anything at all is required. All are welcome! We are proud to announce that monthly PIZZA has returned! All attendees are subject to Wikimedia NYC's Code of Conduct. In addition, to participate in person you should be vaccinated and also be sure to respect others' personal space, and we may limit overall attendance size if appropriate. Brooklyn Public Library encourages the wearing of masks when indoors, and especially be mindful of those in your proximity.
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--Wikimedia New York City Team via MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 21:41, 25 November 2022 (UTC)
The Signpost: 28 November 2022
- News and notes: English Wikipedia editors: "We don't need no stinking banners"
- In the media: "The most beautiful story on the Internet"
- Disinformation report: Missed and Dissed
- Book review: Writing the Revolution
- Technology report: Galactic dreams, encyclopedic reality
- Essay: The Six Million FP Man
- Tips and tricks: (Wiki)break stuff
- Recent research: Study deems COVID-19 editors smart and cool, questions of clarity and utility for WMF's proposed "Knowledge Integrity Risk Observatory"
- Featured content: A great month for featured articles
- Obituary: A tribute to Michael Gäbler
- From the archives: Five, ten, and fifteen years ago
- CommonsComix: Joker's trick
ArbCom 2022 Elections voter message
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Continuation of your side point from SchroCat discussion
Hi Rhododendrites! I wanted to address your comment on infoboxes ("Can't we just say all articles get infoboxes") from AN here to avoid further cluttering an already muddled and complicated discussion.
In a perfect world, yes. My personal opinion is that the infobox should be the default for articles which cover people, places, or any other appropriate field, unless a clear consensus is against it; if a discussion results in No Consensus or Consensus in Favor of an Infobox, by default, the article should have one. However, at least from my point of view (bias alert), there is a small but powerful group of veteran editors which seem to "filibuster" (for lack of a better term) their adoption, particularly in media personalities' articles, insisting that readers must read prose instead of infobox. I'm assuming that you've seen some of the discussions that I've been participating in with regard to IB's.
Since I'm working on other articles to a greater degree, I don't plan on bringing this up at the Village Pump myself, though if you are interested in doing so, I'd be happy to offer my opinion on there. Thanks for reading! InvadingInvader (userpage, talk) 23:06, 13 December 2022 (UTC)
- @InvadingInvader: Don't know how long you've been watching these discussions, but it's a debate that's many, many years old. That you're characterizing those who disagree with you as "filibustering" is, I dare say, a big part of why there's conflict. It's all personal preference. You like them, people like SchroCat don't. That's all there is to it. You say it helps readers, he says it doesn't, but there's no evidence either way. If there were compelling evidence, that should influence our policy on infoboxes rather than need to be hashed out every time. Some people say the type of subject matters, other people just like/dislike infoboxes in general. It basically comes down to a vote, which get complicated when people feel strongly enough to go around to multiple articles just to add/remove an infobox. It turns it into a pure numbers game.
- The people who oppose infoboxes most are usually the people who care about the quality of the writing the most, and hence the people who care about things like FAs. They feel that the prose in the lead, which they've spent a huge amount of time crafting, summarizes a subject better than an infobox, and that if someone just looks at the infobox they don't actually get a good overview of the subject. So they object. That's not filibustering but a different perspective that's no less valid than "I think they help readers". Putting in tens and hundreds of hours working on an article, getting feedback, revising, building out gradually over time ... it doesn't give them absolute authority, but it does mean they're more familiar with the subject and the many ways to present information about the subject than probably anyone else. To the extent that the subject itself matters, that should count or something. And personally, when we have no policies and guidelines to go by for infoboxes, I find their experience with the subject a better reason to judge whether or not there should be an infobox than opinions of people for/against who just like/dislike infoboxes or think they're generally helpful. I don't care about infoboxes myself. I just find the whole debate over them, and the extent to which people are triggered by them (or their absence), and the number of people willing to show up at absolutely any infobox thread to give the same opinion they always give...exhausting, and would rather just end it. — Rhododendrites talk \\ 23:21, 13 December 2022 (UTC)
That thread...
...is really long, and "the logged out user who is not SchroCat"--I missed that. Which edits? Thanks, Drmies (talk) 23:05, 16 December 2022 (UTC)
- @Drmies: This one, with a first edit removing an infobox. Perhaps also these and who knows which others in related ranges. — Rhododendrites talk \\ 23:38, 16 December 2022 (UTC)
- Thanks. GeneralNotability, surely you saw what I saw, right? In my contributions you can see the related warning I left; if Rhododendrites is correct in saying that this user is actively and purposely disruptive (please see my edits at ANI in another thread), then maybe a block is in order. Drmies (talk) 01:01, 17 December 2022 (UTC)
- Drmies, if I'm correctly understanding what you're asking - yes, I see what you see (seasonally appropriate, Do You Hear What I Hear? - today I learned that that song isn't named "Do You See What I See"), and that behavior appears to have been going on for quite a while. GeneralNotability (talk) 01:29, 17 December 2022 (UTC)
- Thanks. GeneralNotability, surely you saw what I saw, right? In my contributions you can see the related warning I left; if Rhododendrites is correct in saying that this user is actively and purposely disruptive (please see my edits at ANI in another thread), then maybe a block is in order. Drmies (talk) 01:01, 17 December 2022 (UTC)
A barnstar for you!
The Special Barnstar | |
Hi Rhododendrites, Thanks very much for your comments at AN. They were very much appreciated! Cheers - SchroCat (talk) 22:34, 19 December 2022 (UTC) |
Merry Christmas!
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Happy holidays
Happy holidays to yourself as well! I'm using the same picture because honestly, I don't think I could find something to top this! It's been a crazy year, to say the least, and I hope that everything is going well with you! I admit that I also don't use Facebook all that much anymore, mostly just for messenger or to check on a business's hours or something like that. Happy holidays! ReaderofthePack(formerly Tokyogirl79) (。◕‿◕。) 19:27, 22 December 2022 (UTC)
Thank you!
Thanks so much for your greetings. Years ago I was involved in a controversy as to what Wikipedia was, specifically whether it was social media or not. The outcome was to remove the comparison altogether. It is a communications forum, albeit in a targeted manner. All the best to you! - kosboot (talk) 02:15, 23 December 2022 (UTC)
- @Kosboot: (and sort of responding to Pdebee from his talk page, too) - Yeah, it's a tough comparison to make. Certainly articles shouldn't be confused with social media, but Wikipedia is an encyclopedia and a community, and healthy communities need to foster forms of communication that aren't strictly "talking shop". So non-article namespaces can at times resemble social media, which seems like a good thing to me as long as people aren't here just for the social network (but even that doesn't really do any harm). I mean I have silly things like userboxes about The Prisoner, chess, and Katamari Damacy on my userpage, have had talk page exchanges that were nothing but music recommendations, etc. (BTW along those lines, I'll mention that RoySmith drew my attention to Too Many Zooz the other day, and they're pretty great.) — Rhododendrites talk \\ 16:34, 23 December 2022 (UTC)
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December music
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We sang Charpentier's delightful Messe de minuit pour Noël today, which was on DYK yesterday, - a first for me, pictured, - thank you for good wishes, and enjoy the season! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:58, 25 December 2022 (UTC)
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Happy Holidays
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Hello, I wish you the very best during the holidays. And I hope you have a very happy 2023! Bruxton (talk) 19:57, 25 December 2022 (UTC) |
Seasons Greetings
Whatever you celebrate at this time of year, whether it's Christmas or some other festival, I hope you and those close to you have a happy, restful time! Have fun, Donner60 (talk) 00:16, 23 December 2022 (UTC)}} |
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A warm cup of tea for you! Cheers!
Happy New Year & Holidays Rhododendrites! Please enjoy this warm cup of tea! Thank you for the insightful Wiki-thoughts and edits you've shared over this year (and years past)! To more conversation and editing in 2023! - Wil540 art (talk) 17:03, 26 December 2022 (UTC)
Bird question
Hello, sorry to bother you but I'm not sure where else to ask. And I know European birds are not American birds but...any idea what bird is in this photo? thumb|Max Wenner from online catalog of the state archive of Kanton St. Gallen Or even any ideas if it's a hawk vs falcon vs something else? TIA. jengod (talk) 03:11, 28 December 2022 (UTC)
- @Jengod: hey. Generally happy to help with a bird id. This is very likely the genus Accipiter (one of two genera of hawk), but I'm not sure which species. The tricky thing is location doesn't help much. Falconers get their birds from all over and there are a number of hawks that look pretty similar. Someone more knowledgeable than me might be able to tell, though. Could post it to e.g. /r/whatsthisbird. — Rhododendrites talk \\ 04:30, 28 December 2022 (UTC)
Update: Northern goshawk and springer spaniel, just FYI :P thx again jengod (talk) 05:29, 28 December 2022 (UTC)
- @Jengod: Ah! I should've been able to get that! :) Well, Accipiter nonetheless. Glad they were able to help. — Rhododendrites talk \\ 21:16, 28 December 2022 (UTC)
Happy New Year, Rhododendrites!
Send New Year cheer by adding {{subst:Happy New Year fireworks}} to user talk pages.
Abishe (talk) 18:11, 31 December 2022 (UTC)
Happy New Year!
- – Send New Year cheer by adding {{subst:Happy New Year}} to user talk pages.
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Request Edit Assistance - Pluto TV
Hello, I see you are a participant of WikiProject Media. I made some proposals to update the article about Pluto TV, posted here Talk:Pluto TV#Changes for Pluto TV, October 2022. Since I have a conflict of interest, I can’t make the changes. Could you possibly have time to look at these? Thank you very much.RadicalBodhi (talk) 20:17, 9 January 2023 (UTC)
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Books & Bytes – Issue 54
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Issue 54, November – December 2022
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Hi! I just wanted you advice regarding 3O
I saw your comment regarding my comments and my lack of edits. I just noticed that it was close. Did you close it? I believe that the comment that files it for archive was not removed nor was there a reason provided. Would it be ok to place it for archive and to place as a reason "Recommended forward to 3O".
May I ask if there is an official/or unofficial consensus on edits of the DRN? Or other pages. I really would like to help more but I don't really have a starting point and the DRN seemed like an ok option however you might know a better place since you have more experience. Chefs-kiss (talk) 11:11, 4 February 2023 (UTC)
- @Chefs-kiss: The comment about your edit count was perhaps a bit dismissive -- sorry about that. I doubt there's any specific number -- whatever number gives someone a strong grasp of Wikipedia's dispute resolution processes and policies and guidelines. Dispute resolution is hard, and requires being able to understand the often very complicated problems that arise, as well as to know when DRN is an appropriate option. In the Breitbart case, it just needed a third opinion.
- I did not close it, and it still appears as "in progress" to me. I see what disputes are going on at DRN when I browse the dashboard, but don't really participate there otherwise. It sits in kind of a weird spot in the array of dispute resolution mechanisms in that it's not binding, doesn't typically attract a lot of uninvolved opinions, and takes some time/bureaucracy. I'd recommend talking to Robert McClenon if you want advice/insight specific to DRN (including proper technical procedures), since I think he's largely responsible for keeping it afloat for some time now, and may appreciate help.
- A good step if you're interested in helping to resolve disputes on Wikipedia may be to browse the open requests for comments. Get a sense for the different positions, relevant policies, and weigh in. — Rhododendrites talk \\ 13:20, 4 February 2023 (UTC)
- User:Rhododendrites, User:Chefs-kiss - I am a little puzzled. I was pinged, but I don't know what the background was, and I don't see where there was a mention of edit counts. What is the context or issue? Robert McClenon (talk) 05:11, 5 February 2023 (UTC)
- @Robert McClenon: The specifics aren't as important as that Chefs-kiss is looking to get more involved at DRN, and I suggested you'd know better than I what sorts of requirements/expectations there are there. — Rhododendrites talk \\ 05:30, 5 February 2023 (UTC)
- User:Rhododendrites, User:Chefs-kiss - I am a little puzzled. I was pinged, but I don't know what the background was, and I don't see where there was a mention of edit counts. What is the context or issue? Robert McClenon (talk) 05:11, 5 February 2023 (UTC)
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Thanks for an old comment
Rhododendrites, I wanted to thank you for something you said a while back. This comment [4] has been really helpful. It's like a coin kept in the pocket to remind you of something. More often than I might want to admit I find myself wanting to say something very snarky to others. Not something that is obviously a violation but certainly not something that helps overall civility. That is when the above message comes in handy. A little reminder that in the long term we are all better if we don't focus on the personal is really helpful. Thanks again for leaving it. Springee (talk) 21:45, 19 February 2023 (UTC)
- @Springee: I do think it helps when people keep cool, even if it's frustrating to do so. Personally, I'm more likely to stop helping with an article/discussion if the people I agree with are ramping up the hostility/toxicity, even where I might stick around if it were someone I disagreed with. If only more people appreciated the extent to which their own behavior reflects on others beyond the ones they're trying to prove wrong... meh. — Rhododendrites talk \\ 03:59, 23 February 2023 (UTC)
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- Featured content: Eden, lost.
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- From the archives: 5, 10, and 15 years ago: Let's (not) delete the Main Page!
- Humour: The RfA Candidate's Song
Response to your question on ANI
I'm writing here to respond to this question, I would point back to my initial !vote and to Tamzin's second comment, particularly where xe stated that NI's stated understanding of WP:RS is a huge problem for editing if taken as genuine (and, as I will add, this is particularly a problem where dealing with living people or other contentious topics). A bludgeoning restriction would help in terms of allowing discussions to proceed more smoothly, but I don't think it's sufficient to prevent the sorts of GENSEX-related flagrant BLP issues from occurring again. I'm writing here, rather than on AN/I, because I'm hoping to disengage from the thread, and because I don't think I have anything new to add to the conversation at this point.
— Red-tailed hawk (nest) 15:50, 22 February 2023 (UTC)
- @Red-tailed hawk: Yeah, I saw a couple RS-related issues that were concerning, but I don't think I've seen enough for a broad topic ban yet. I'm generally a fan of narrower interventions first where possible. The bludgeoning evidence (combined with my own experience) does point to a "bludgeoning restriction" possibly having some value, but it would be tough to word. Regardless, that ANI thread and the threads it links to are already pretty long, and I feel like I might be missing some evidence, so I'm probably just going to tap out of that one. — Rhododendrites talk \\ 04:03, 23 February 2023 (UTC)
Editing news 2023 #1
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This newsletter includes two key updates about the Editing team's work:
- The Editing team will finish adding new features to the Talk pages project and deploy it.
- They are beginning a new project, Edit check.
Talk pages project
The Editing team is nearly finished with this first phase of the Talk pages project. Nearly all new features are available now in the Beta Feature for Discussion tools.
It will show information about how active a discussion is, such as the date of the most recent comment. There will soon be a new "Add topic" button. You will be able to turn them off at Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-editing-discussion. Please tell them what you think.
An A/B test for Discussion tools on the mobile site has finished. Editors were more successful with Discussion tools. The Editing team is enabling these features for all editors on the mobile site.
New Project: Edit Check
The Editing team is beginning a project to help new editors of Wikipedia. It will help people identify some problems before they click "Publish changes". The first tool will encourage people to add references when they add new content. Please watch that page for more information. You can join a conference call on 3 March 2023 to learn more.
–Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 18:19, 22 February 2023 (UTC)
Mar 8: WikiWednesday Salon by Grand Central
Mar 8: WikiWednesday Salon by Grand Central | |
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You are invited to join the Wikimedia NYC community and visitors from the global Wikimedia Foundation for our WikiWednesday Salon by Grand Central, in-person at Convene 101 Park Avenue in the vicinity of Manhattan's Grand Central Terminal. No experience of anything at all is required. All are welcome! This is somewhat of a sequel to last year's Wikipedia:Meetup/NYC/Brunch in terms of the participants, though this time it is an evening event in a different borough. We may leaven the event with a few impromptu lightning talks, a Wiki-fashion show (yes, really!), and likely an afterparty tour. All attendees are subject to Wikimedia NYC's Code of Conduct. In addition, to participate in person you should be vaccinated and also be sure to respect others' personal space, and we may limit overall attendance size if appropriate.
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(You can subscribe/unsubscribe from future notifications for NYC-area events by adding or removing your name from this list.)
--Wikimedia New York City Team via MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 03:36, 28 February 2023 (UTC)
Essays, guidelines, etc
I think you've made some good points there, and can't help but wonder if it is not well past time we had a systemic review of the whole tree of designations like this. One thought that came to me is to deprecate the "guideline" designation entirely, and instead make all instructional pages "information pages" which to me seem to be essentially the same thing, but without the baggage of having to get them formally approved as such. Beeblebrox (talk) 17:49, 28 February 2023 (UTC)
- @Beeblebrox: You mean deprecate the guideline designation as it applies to instructional pages, or everywhere? Would notability become an information page or would it be promoted to a policy? I haven't done a full review, and don't know of one. Part of the confusion is the dual meaning of "levels of consensus/support" and "principles vs. practices" (or something like that) as well as the differently functioning content vs. behavioral vs. administrative/procedural pages. I started to type out about five different version of "if I were to start from scratch I'd...", scrapping each one. Will have to give it more thought. Maybe an audit would be helpful for a big picture. — Rhododendrites talk \\ 15:10, 2 March 2023 (UTC)
- Yeah, any such review would need to be very carefully planned out, what I mentioned here was just the first idea to pop into my mind. With the ArbCom workload being what it is I'm not currently in the "big policy RFC" business for at leat another year. Beeblebrox (talk) 15:29, 2 March 2023 (UTC)
- Can't blame you. The gig economy of the Big Policy RfC Business pays much less than the lucrative long-term contracts in the Arbitrating Business. — Rhododendrites talk \\ 15:36, 2 March 2023 (UTC)
- Yeah, any such review would need to be very carefully planned out, what I mentioned here was just the first idea to pop into my mind. With the ArbCom workload being what it is I'm not currently in the "big policy RFC" business for at leat another year. Beeblebrox (talk) 15:29, 2 March 2023 (UTC)
WikiCup 2023 March newsletter
So ends the first round of the 2023 WikiCup. Everyone with a positive score moved on to Round 2, with 54 contestants qualifying. The top scorers in Round 1 were:
- Unlimitedlead with 1205 points, a WikiCup newcomer, led the field with two featured articles on historical figures and several featured article candidate reviews.
- Epicgenius was in second place with 789 points; a seasoned WikiCup competitor he specialises in buildings and locations in New York.
- FrB.TG was in third place with 625 points, garnered from a featured article on a filmmaker which qualified for an impressive number of bonus points.
- TheJoebro64, another WikiCup newcomer, came next with 600 points gained from two featured articles on video games.
- Iazyges was in fifth place with 532 points, from two featured articles on classical history.
The top sixteen contestants at the end of Round 1 had all scored over 300 points; these included LunaEatsTuna, Thebiguglyalien, Sammi Brie, Trainsandotherthings, Lee Vilenski, Juxlos, Unexpectedlydian, SounderBruce, Kosack, BennyOnTheLoose and PCN02WPS. It was a high-scoring start to the competition.
These contestants, like all the others, now have to start again from scratch. The first round finished on February 26. Remember that any content promoted after that date but before the start of Round 2 can be claimed in Round 2. Some contestants made claims before the new submissions pages were set up, and they will need to resubmit them. Invitations for collaborative writing efforts or any other discussion of potentially interesting work is always welcome on the WikiCup talk page. Remember, if two or more WikiCup competitors have done significant work on an article, all can claim points. If you are concerned that your nomination—whether it is at good article candidates, a featured process, or anywhere else—will not receive the necessary reviews, please list it on Wikipedia:WikiCup/Reviews Needed.
If you want to help out with the WikiCup, please do your bit to keep down the review backlogs! Questions are welcome on Wikipedia talk:WikiCup, and the judges are reachable on their talk pages or by email. Good luck! If you wish to start or stop receiving this newsletter, please feel free to add or remove yourself from Wikipedia:WikiCup/Newsletter/Send. Sturmvogel 66 and Cwmhiraeth. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 19:36, 2 March 2023 (UTC)